Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Ukraine
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedUkraine

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 10>
Author
Message
LSDisease View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ukraine
    Posted: January 23 2014 at 11:55
It's almost a civil war over there now. But one thing is really interesting. Who finances that riot?

Possible answers

The European Union : they want to expand their influence in Europe.
Russia: they provoke the conflict to divide Ukrainian society because it's easier to control a divided nation.
International Monetary Fund (inspired by the US and possibly the EU): because they need more borrowers as Romania and Hungary are no longer interested in loans that create an extra debt.
USA: American government who wants to control shale gas fields in the western part of Ukraine, which is possible after Ukraine signed $10 billion shale gas deal with American company Chevron.
Common people: after propaganda spread in media "Ukrainians want freedom". Of course media create that image for political purposes

Any other ideas?


Edited by LSDisease - January 23 2014 at 11:57
"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:01
All of them.
Back to Top
LSDisease View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:04
yeah it's possible 
"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
Back to Top
ole-the-first View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1534
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:20
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:


Russia: they provoke the conflict to divide Ukrainian society because it's easier to control a divided nation.
 

I'm afraid that that kind of scenario is way too hard for Russian governmentLOL Really, you have to live here to understand how lame the Russian government is.

Actually, the whole Eastern Ukraine is on pro-Russian positions and the Western Ukraine is on more nationalist side. That's been this way for more than twenty years. Both parties are almost equally influential, so sometimes pro-Russian parties take control over Ukraine and sometimes the nationalists do so. The Russian intention is of course to have influence on Ukrainian politics, but rather by lobbying the already existing pro-Russian side.
This night wounds time.
Back to Top
LSDisease View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:31
Originally posted by ole-the-first ole-the-first wrote:


I'm afraid that that kind of scenario is way too hard for Russian governmentLOL Really, you have to live here to understand how lame the Russian government is.

Actually, the whole Eastern Ukraine is on pro-Russian positions and the Western Ukraine is on more nationalist side. That's been this way for more than twenty years. Both parties are almost equally influential, so sometimes pro-Russian parties take control over Ukraine and sometimes the nationalists do so. The Russian intention is of course to have influence on Ukrainian politics, but rather by lobbying the already existing pro-Russian side.


Objectively speaking, Russian government is pretty well organized and influential. At least in comparsion with other governments in Eastern Europe. It's better for Ukraine to stay where they are. The EU is deader than dead.


Edited by LSDisease - January 24 2014 at 04:58
"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
Back to Top
ole-the-first View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1534
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:44
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Objectively speaking, Russian government is pretty well organized and influential.

Ahh, it's still quite influential but it's barely well-organized. During the past few years the State Duma is getting more and more idiotic and every political desicion or adopted law could be done in a dramatically different (and smarter) way. Honestly, the political life in Russia looks more like a circus than any conscious form of ruling apparatus.

As for Ukraine, I don't support nor pro-Russian, nor pro-EU party. I just never lived there and I can't judge what would be the better way for their country.
This night wounds time.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:45
Oh yippee, another pointless conspiracy conspiracy.
What?
Back to Top
LSDisease View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:50
Originally posted by ole-the-first ole-the-first wrote:

 
Ahh, it's still quite influential but it's barely well-organized. During the past few years the State Duma is getting more and more idiotic and every political desicion or adopted law could be done in a dramatically different (and smarter) way. Honestly, the political life in Russia looks more like a circus than any conscious form of ruling apparatus.

As for Ukraine, I don't support nor pro-Russian, nor pro-EU party. I just never lived there and I can't judge what would be the better way for their country.


There's no stupider law than the one being created in the EU offices. Trust me.


Edited by LSDisease - January 23 2014 at 12:51
"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 13:12
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Oh yippee, another pointless conspiracy conspiracy.
I wonder if there's a conspiracy behind the creation of all of these conspiracies.... Stern Smile
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 13:12
I'm not convinced anyone is 'funding the riots' That's not so say that uprisings are never influenced and part funded by outside parties.

I've not been following the problems in Ukraine very closely, but it appears - from the outside - that the majority want EU membership and don't want to go backwards into Russias sphere of influence.

Not that the EU is a great bet right now..
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
Guldbamsen View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin

Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23098
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 13:42
You forgot about the possibility of an extraterrestrial funding.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 14:00
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:


Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Oh yippee, another pointless conspiracy conspiracy.
I wonder if there's a conspiracy behind the creation of all of these conspiracies.... Stern Smile


Yes, of course. Conspiracy theories are hatched by government operatives to make the 'official line' on anything seem more credible...
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 14:12
Conspiracies are then hatched by the targets of conspiracy theories to make the official conspiracy a little less conspiratorial... Wacko
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 14:40
Originally posted by ole-the-first ole-the-first wrote:

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:


Russia: they provoke the conflict to divide Ukrainian society because it's easier to control a divided nation.
 

I'm afraid that that kind of scenario is way too hard for Russian governmentLOL Really, you have to live here to understand how lame the Russian government is.

Actually, the whole Eastern Ukraine is on pro-Russian positions and the Western Ukraine is on more nationalist side. That's been this way for more than twenty years. Both parties are almost equally influential, so sometimes pro-Russian parties take control over Ukraine and sometimes the nationalists do so. The Russian intention is of course to have influence on Ukrainian politics, but rather by lobbying the already existing pro-Russian side.
I think that comrade Stalin made mistake due to Galitzia wasn't republic in USSR.
In that case, Galitzia would be an independet state now, as for example Moldova, and everything be quiet up there.
But who could have know in advance, even Stalin could not have to know that.
Thus, Ukraine will forever be at dangerous seesaw between Russia and EU (NATO).






Edited by Svetonio - January 23 2014 at 14:46
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2014 at 04:16
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Conspiracies are then hatched by the targets of conspiracy theories to make the official conspiracy a little less conspiratorial... Wacko


Then the original conspiritors make sure that the more seemigly plausible conspiracy theories are always juxtoposed in the media - which they obviously control - with obviously ridicuouls theories - the queen is a lizard, the moonlanding was shot in Nevada etc etc - to detract crebility from them...

Complex isn't it...
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
LSDisease View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 494
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2014 at 04:31
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 
 
I think that comrade Stalin made mistake due to Galitzia wasn't republic in USSR.
In that case, Galitzia would be an independet state now, as for example Moldova, and everything be quiet up there.
But who could have know in advance, even Stalin could not have to know that.
Thus, Ukraine will forever be at dangerous seesaw between Russia and EU (NATO).




Eastern Galicia wouldn't be an independent state, it would be Polish same as the Western Galicia is. Stalin didn't want that.


Edited by LSDisease - January 24 2014 at 04:57
"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
Back to Top
Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2014 at 04:49
The most insightful English-language overview of the political situation in Ukraine that I've read so far comes from oddly enough the usually hit-and-miss, and almost always cranky, right-libertarian webzine Taki's Magazine. Then again it's a guest contribution from Scott Locklin who's one of my favourite bloggers rather than one of their regular columnists.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
Back to Top
King of Loss View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16327
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2014 at 23:13
I have some Ukrainian friends. Horrible proxy conflict going on there. Good luck to them. ErmmUnhappy
Back to Top
CPicard View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10837
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2014 at 14:23
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

It's almost a civil war over there now. But one thing is really interesting. Who finances that riot?

Possible answers

The European Union : they want to expand their influence in Europe.
Russia: they provoke the conflict to divide Ukrainian society because it's easier to control a divided nation.
International Monetary Fund (inspired by the US and possibly the EU): because they need more borrowers as Romania and Hungary are no longer interested in loans that create an extra debt.
USA: American government who wants to control shale gas fields in the western part of Ukraine, which is possible after Ukraine signed $10 billion shale gas deal with American company Chevron.
Common people: after propaganda spread in media "Ukrainians want freedom". Of course media create that image for political purposes

Any other ideas?


All of them are wrong: the riots are financed by the FEMEN! Shocked
Back to Top
Jim Garten View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin & Razor Guru

Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2014 at 06:10
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

You forgot about the possibility of an extraterrestrial funding.


Personally, I believe it's the fault of an extra-terrestrial Marxist (and therefore racist) feminist movement funding the riots to convert the Ukraine to capitalism.

There - that should tick all the boxes, can we close the thread now please?

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.