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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 10:33

A wonderful bit of cherry picking, all that is sadly true but you could find quite a lot showing the opposite as well.

It wasn't the point anyway. I admit it's easier to say "Russia" but I did not mean the entire people/country (I try not to blanket things like that) guess I should've said "Because Putin is totally a saint". I think we all know he is probably the instigator in all this. Even if not directly...
Seems like a slow process to me. 2004 Ukraine tried to fight against the bear, and managed to hold out for a bit. 2010 came Yanukovich, which some at the time said was just the start of the process of the country being sold off to Russia. Seems accurate to me so far. Even if Putin is just pulling an IR move to strenghten himself against the protests to be more Western, he still caused it all in the long run. I can't believe that Putin hasn't planted people in some areas over time. Is any of this too ridiculous?
 
Not trying to be funny or edgy here, I really do think given all this, the issues with Georgia years ago, and the various Russian puppet states like Belarus, that the former KGBer really is trying to create some new-old Russian empire.
I really wouldn't be opposed to Crimea and even some Eastern states being given to Russia. One could argue, esp Crimea, really should be anyway. Then Ukraine can maybe be free and pursue more Nationalist/Western future. Would that just temporarily placate Putin though? Of course the US and EU don't want Russia to have any more land.
 
Ugh, yeah Im sick againDead


Edited by JJLehto - April 18 2014 at 10:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 13:19
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

A wonderful bit of cherry picking, all that is sadly true but you could find a lot showing the opposite as well  (...)  

(...) that the former KGBer really is trying to create some new-old Russian Empire.

It can not be compared because the other side at the present day is quite a socialism in comparision with Putin's Russia . Also, images of beggars & homless on the streets of big cities on the West are pretty "normal" (e.g. the famous Parisian bums were / are a tourists attraction), while in Russia that poverty is a result of  "transition" where "former" KGBers and gangsters took all in past 25 yrs only; there wasn't so called democracy (as they "have" now) , but they were living in a real socialism and there weren't  these kids and old womans to beg in downtown Moscow - actually the most expensive quarter in the World now.

My point was the fact that Putin and his Mafia are not willing & able to make some "Eurasia" and particularly not the "new empire" because they are not willing & able even to raise their Pacific East nor to feed the peopleOn Kremlin' side, all of this with Ukraine is just a mimicry  in order to false patriotism - in order to keep in power; Slobodan Milosevic did do the same and caused the Balkan wars in 90s on that way. 
Putin and his gangsters are Russians and they know that Russian people not staging demonstrations so often as Americans or the Greeks do, but their protests can easily turn into a rebellion and revolution. So that "battle to save Russians in Ukraine" is actually a battle for their rule, and consenquently, that unlimited robbery to be continued.


Edited by Svetonio - April 18 2014 at 14:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 13:59
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 

THIS is Putin's Russia:




























And please don't forget threre are bears everywhere and everybody drinks vodka and plays balalajka.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 14:06
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

A wonderful bit of cherry picking, all that is sadly true but you could find quite a lot showing the opposite as well.

It wasn't the point anyway. I admit it's easier to say "Russia" but I did not mean the entire people/country (I try not to blanket things like that) guess I should've said "Because Putin is totally a saint". I think we all know he is probably the instigator in all this. Even if not directly...
Seems like a slow process to me. 2004 Ukraine tried to fight against the bear, and managed to hold out for a bit. 2010 came Yanukovich, which some at the time said was just the start of the process of the country being sold off to Russia. Seems accurate to me so far. Even if Putin is just pulling an IR move to strenghten himself against the protests to be more Western, he still caused it all in the long run. I can't believe that Putin hasn't planted people in some areas over time. Is any of this too ridiculous?
 
Not trying to be funny or edgy here, I really do think given all this, the issues with Georgia years ago, and the various Russian puppet states like Belarus, that the former KGBer really is trying to create some new-old Russian empire.
I really wouldn't be opposed to Crimea and even some Eastern states being given to Russia. One could argue, esp Crimea, really should be anyway. Then Ukraine can maybe be free and pursue more Nationalist/Western future. Would that just temporarily placate Putin though? Of course the US and EU don't want Russia to have any more land.
 
Ugh, yeah Im sick againDead

I have some Russian friends and they say it's pretty sh*tty after the Soviet Union collapsed. People lost everything and then ( US sponsored ogliarchs and the current Putin, KGB gangsters) took everything. A lot of people that were at the top of the party hierarchy who weren't corrupt or gangsters got really screwed. Shock therapy completely destroyed all social protections and Russia became the testing ground of the new IMF neoliberal state. Now what we see that is the neoliberal state created by the Americans has now MERGED with the Russian KGB, who took advantage of the situation and took everything. Putin never planted those former KGB over in those post-communist states... They have been there even before Putin took power... They never lost their allegiance to their intelligence agencies and their cause.... What's worrying is the thing that Svetonio mentioned with the development of two mature fascist empires in the heart of Eurasia -> The "European" Union and the new Russian Empire -> which will include most of the former Soviet Union.. 

About Belarus -> It's not a Russian puppet, it's just a PART of the Russian empire. The people there mostly speak Russian and they view themselves as Russians. A guy at work here who is from Belarus views himself as Russian. The languages, cultures and customs in Belarus, Russia, Eastern and Southern Ukraine are very similar. Western Ukrainians, from what I met, are Polonized and a lot of them are Catholics. From hundreds of years of Polish and Austrian colonization, they are more like Poles than Russians. Russian presence in Central Asia remains different, because those are conquered lands. 

The problem with you talking about "Russian puppet states" is that the pro-Western opposition are not free from puppetry either. The current Ukrainian and Georgian government are not these "liberal democrats" you're talking about, they are of the same mould as the Russian puppets, but they favor the US side, because they receive most of their funding from the US and the EU (mostly from us taxpayers). They're very much as corrupt as the other side and employ similar authoritarian actions in dealing with whomever opposes them. Just look at what the pro-Western Georgian and Ukrainian authorities did when they took power. The Georgian government cracked down on pro-Russian protestors and employed torture against them. Mind you in 2008, Georgia attacked Russian peacekeepers in the region with NATO weaponry FIRST and the CIA and other Western intelligence agencies IMF has been embedded deeply into the pro-Western factions in both Ukraine and Georgia. What other state would the CIA director John Brennan visit unannounced other than to directly their puppets? These countries, if they join the EU and NATO as vassals, they won't do as well economically as the United States or the United Kingdom. I mean look at most of Eastern Europe, even after 25 years of American cultural, political and economic dominance, the economies of most of those nations continue to be basketcases...They provide cheap labor to Western markets, cheap resources to be transported without barrier to the German industrial base and their best talent continues moving to the West.. Not really a good deal for them...., but since Westerners are so indoctrinated by the most ridiculous knee-jerk Russiophobia, the population of the West believes that they might join with the West if they want prosperity and happiness. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 14:08
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

A wonderful bit of cherry picking, all that is sadly true but you could find a lot showing the opposite as well  (...)  

(...) that the former KGBer really is trying to create some new-old Russian Empire.

It can not be compared because the other side at the present day is quite a socialism in comparision with Putin's Russia . Also, images of beggars & homless on the streets of big cities on the West are pretty "normal" (e.g. the famous Parisian bums were / are a tourists attraction), while in Russia that poverty is a result of  "transition" where "former" KGBers and gangsters took all in past 25 yrs only; there wasn't so called democracy (as they "have" now) , but there weren't  these kids and old womans to beg in downtown Moscow - actually the most expensive quarter in the World.

My point was the fact that Putin and his Mafia are not willing & able to make some "Eurasia" and particularly not the new / old empire because they are not willing & able even to raise their Pacific East nor to feed the peopleOn Kremlin' side, all of this with Ukraine is just a mimicry - in order to false patriotism in order to keep in power; Putin and his gangsters are Russians and they know that Russian people not staging demonstrations so often as Americans or the Greeks do, but their protests can easily turn into a rebellion and revolution.

America would start resembling Putin's Russia if we got rid of our social safety net. I mean, America is a lot wealthier than Russia, but if you looked at the wealth gap in a city, for example New York, it's quite ridiculous! Might be worse than Russia....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 14:29
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 

THIS is Putin's Russia:
(...)
And please don't forget threre are bears everywhere and everybody drinks vodka and plays balalajka.
Of course. However, here in Serbia, Russian agencies performed very strong propaganda  - due to interests of Gazprom - that there's not poverty at all in your country because Putin is a good natured saint. So I can't wait that Putin is gonna be disposed.


Edited by Svetonio - April 18 2014 at 14:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 16:01
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 that there's not poverty at all in your country because Putin is a good natured saint.
I did not say there is no poverty. There is a lot of sh*t, but it's not the whole picture. Like in any other country I guess.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 16:34
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 that there's not poverty at all in your country because Putin is a good natured saint.
I did not say there is no poverty. There is a lot of sh*t, but it's not the whole picture. Like in any other country I guess.
I like Zyuganov, I think that it's a kind of tragedy that he is not the leader of Russia - I hope he will be..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 17:04
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

America would start resembling Putin's Russia if we got rid of our social safety net. I mean, America is a lot wealthier than Russia, but if you looked at the wealth gap in a city, for example New York, it's quite ridiculous! Might be worse than Russia....
Do you agree that London and Washington have to launch a reverse process in Russia, quite opposite than they did at the time of "shock therapy"? I meanif you strongly support Zyuganov, because he would certainly break up that alliance with Merkel's Germany ("E.U."). This, in my humble opinion, can be only good for London and Washigton; breaking Berlin - Moscow alliance now with supporting Zyuganov, It will cost much cheaper now than later, when so many bad things are gonna be evolved; e.g. if Scotland declares independence in September 2014, then Scotland will soon be in a happy alliance with Berlin and Moscow  -  for sure

Edited by Svetonio - April 18 2014 at 17:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 18:16
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 I like Zyuganov, I think that it's a kind of tragedy that he is not the leader of Russia - I hope he will be..
He missed his chance in 1996, the train's gone.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 19:27
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

America would start resembling Putin's Russia if we got rid of our social safety net. I mean, America is a lot wealthier than Russia, but if you looked at the wealth gap in a city, for example New York, it's quite ridiculous! Might be worse than Russia....
Do you agree that London and Washington have to launch a reverse process in Russia, quite opposite than they did at the time of "shock therapy"? I meanif you strongly support Zyuganov, because he would certainly break up that alliance with Merkel's Germany ("E.U."). This, in my humble opinion, can be only good for London and Washigton; breaking Berlin - Moscow alliance now with supporting Zyuganov, It will cost much cheaper now than later, when so many bad things are gonna be evolved; e.g. if Scotland declares independence in September 2014, then Scotland will soon be in a happy alliance with Berlin and Moscow  -  for sure

No, Washington likes neoliberal government quite a lot. It benefits the bankers who rules America by proxy in New York and in London. A couple of my relatives work in the City and Wall Street, so they would know about that. Unhappy Putin is a huge threat to their monetary domination of the world, but also to the national interests of the US and the UK. He's a serious threat to their domination of the world's affairs since the end of World War 2.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2014 at 01:49
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

America would start resembling Putin's Russia if we got rid of our social safety net. I mean, America is a lot wealthier than Russia, but if you looked at the wealth gap in a city, for example New York, it's quite ridiculous! Might be worse than Russia....
Do you agree that London and Washington have to launch a reverse process in Russia, quite opposite than they did at the time of "shock therapy"? I meanif you strongly support Zyuganov, because he would certainly break up that alliance with Merkel's Germany ("E.U."). This, in my humble opinion, can be only good for London and Washigton; breaking Berlin - Moscow alliance now with supporting Zyuganov, It will cost much cheaper now than later, when so many bad things are gonna be evolved; e.g. if Scotland declares independence in September 2014, then Scotland will soon be in a happy alliance with Berlin and Moscow  -  for sure

No, Washington likes neoliberal government quite a lot. It benefits the bankers who rules America by proxy in New York and in London. A couple of my relatives work in the City and Wall Street, so they would know about that. Unhappy Putin is a huge threat to their monetary domination of the world, but also to the national interests of the US and the UK. He's a serious threat to their domination of the world's affairs since the end of World War 2.
Yes, I understand ... Bankers from Wall Street will be hardcore fans of the "former" KGB colonel Putin until he demands that America pays his crude oil in euros, rather than dollars. In this case, the U.S. economy will falling, while at the same time, German  ("E.U.")  economy will growing rapidly. And Putin can to do this, and he will do it. But, the bankers on Wall Street do not want to see beyond their own noses, they do not want to see that non-official but firm alliance between "E.U." and Kremlin as a real threat to them, the U.S. economy and, finally, to people in U.S. The Wall Street is afraid that Zyuganov is willing to nationalize a number of U.S. corporations in Russia. Of course, Zyuganov can do it, regarding his ideology and his campaign promises.  But, if Zyuganov will continue to simply recognizes petro dollar, then Zyuganov is much less threat than Putin and his new allies in "E.U."; because Zyuganov actually won't to have an ally in Merkel's Germany ("E.U.") as Putin alredy has as well.

As I said, Putin can ( I think he will ) tell you to pay that crude oil in euros. Merkel will be silent and snigger. Is not it cheaper without the currency markets? For trade is a necessary a lower cost euro, in a long-term perspective - that is expensive €. Then they receive a bonus in "E.U", their rates will go up, energy prices will fall, if / when Putin will tell you to pay off the crude oil, metals and other raw materials - in euros.
But for American consumers that will be a disaster. Gasoline will rise from a 3.50 to 4 dollars at 4.50 to 5 dollars a gallon (3.78 liters). Due to fact that Wall Street is still to push Putin and his new friend ( "E.U".), one can say that the bankers from Wall Street don't have a capacity for leadership to recognize that the alliance of  "E.U." and Russia holds all the cards in their hands.

So, if they introduce such measures, whether it will be possible to return back? Will it be the beginning of the end of petro dollars? Iran announces stronger economic ties with "E.U." and isn't that says something? Wink
Last but not least, what if e.g. Saudi Arabia also decided to go in alliance with Russia and "E.U.", and to receive euros, Juan, rupees, whatever, but no dollar?

Edited by Svetonio - April 19 2014 at 03:14
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2014 at 03:39
I remember a schoolmate of my elder daughter. He was Ukrainian of Russian language and I was a bit surprised when he said, "I'm not Russian, I'm Ukrainian". In any case, regardless the jokes of big bosses, violent nationalists are nothing else than football hooligans. They are easily manouvred by that kind of "leaders". It's the same everywhere.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2014 at 10:11
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

America would start resembling Putin's Russia if we got rid of our social safety net. I mean, America is a lot wealthier than Russia, but if you looked at the wealth gap in a city, for example New York, it's quite ridiculous! Might be worse than Russia....
Do you agree that London and Washington have to launch a reverse process in Russia, quite opposite than they did at the time of "shock therapy"? I meanif you strongly support Zyuganov, because he would certainly break up that alliance with Merkel's Germany ("E.U."). This, in my humble opinion, can be only good for London and Washigton; breaking Berlin - Moscow alliance now with supporting Zyuganov, It will cost much cheaper now than later, when so many bad things are gonna be evolved; e.g. if Scotland declares independence in September 2014, then Scotland will soon be in a happy alliance with Berlin and Moscow  -  for sure

No, Washington likes neoliberal government quite a lot. It benefits the bankers who rules America by proxy in New York and in London. A couple of my relatives work in the City and Wall Street, so they would know about that. Unhappy Putin is a huge threat to their monetary domination of the world, but also to the national interests of the US and the UK. He's a serious threat to their domination of the world's affairs since the end of World War 2.
Yes, I understand ... Bankers from Wall Street will be hardcore fans of the "former" KGB colonel Putin until he demands that America pays his crude oil in euros, rather than dollars. In this case, the U.S. economy will falling, while at the same time, German  ("E.U.")  economy will growing rapidly. And Putin can to do this, and he will do it. But, the bankers on Wall Street do not want to see beyond their own noses, they do not want to see that non-official but firm alliance between "E.U." and Kremlin as a real threat to them, the U.S. economy and, finally, to people in U.S. The Wall Street is afraid that Zyuganov is willing to nationalize a number of U.S. corporations in Russia. Of course, Zyuganov can do it, regarding his ideology and his campaign promises.  But, if Zyuganov will continue to simply recognizes petro dollar, then Zyuganov is much less threat than Putin and his new allies in "E.U."; because Zyuganov actually won't to have an ally in Merkel's Germany ("E.U.") as Putin alredy has as well.

As I said, Putin can ( I think he will ) tell you to pay that crude oil in euros. Merkel will be silent and snigger. Is not it cheaper without the currency markets? For trade is a necessary a lower cost euro, in a long-term perspective - that is expensive €. Then they receive a bonus in "E.U", their rates will go up, energy prices will fall, if / when Putin will tell you to pay off the crude oil, metals and other raw materials - in euros.
But for American consumers that will be a disaster. Gasoline will rise from a 3.50 to 4 dollars at 4.50 to 5 dollars a gallon (3.78 liters). Due to fact that Wall Street is still to push Putin and his new friend ( "E.U".), one can say that the bankers from Wall Street don't have a capacity for leadership to recognize that the alliance of  "E.U." and Russia holds all the cards in their hands.

So, if they introduce such measures, whether it will be possible to return back? Will it be the beginning of the end of petro dollars? Iran announces stronger economic ties with "E.U." and isn't that says something? Wink
Last but not least, what if e.g. Saudi Arabia also decided to go in alliance with Russia and "E.U.", and to receive euros, Juan, rupees, whatever, but no dollar?

Most people don't realize this, but the EU was founded by a bunch of secret Nazis and now they're dominating all of the nations of the European Union. 75% of all laws that European Union members follow are made in Brussels, but the reality is most of these laws are vetted by the German industrialists and their banker friends in Frankfurt.

I don't see the petrodollar lasting for too long. The US can no longer be the dominant power in the world with all of these great powers emerging.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 03:09
Vladimir Zhyironovski (68), leader of the "Liberal Democratic Party of Russia" and head of the parliamentary group of the party in the Duma, incited a news conference two of his associates to "severe rape," the pregnant journalist.

Due to the attacks of Zhyronovsky, the russian nationalist and without a doubt the most bizarre caricatures of Russian post-Soviet politics, pregnant Stella Dubovickaya finished in the hospital.

Dubovicakaya, television journalist of "Russia Todey", sparked outrage Zhirinovsky with the question regarding sanctions against Ukraine. Zhyronovski immediately started yelling and directed two of his young assistant to rape her.

"When I say, run to it and rape " Zhirinovsky ordered them.






Edited by Svetonio - April 22 2014 at 03:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 04:10
^ Holy s$%t. Calling a pregnant journalist a "goddamn lesbian" - now that's just stupid and insane on a level that is so astonishing. How do you top this?

Edited by Dayvenkirq - April 22 2014 at 04:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 05:02
Zhyrinovskiy is just an old clown. Nobody expects anything conscious from him.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 06:41
Originally posted by ole-the-first ole-the-first wrote:

Zhyrinovskiy is just an old clown. Nobody expects anything conscious from him.

All dirty autocrat and dictators have their "clowns". For example, Slobodan Milosevic also had his "clown", serbian fascist Vojislav Seselj (the short video below: near yugoslavian / serbian parliament building,  Belgrade's taxi driver was threatened by Vojislav Seselj with a gun); the "clown" has come a long way since Milosevic's minister to the accused for genocide. Why is there Seselj in Serbia? For the same reasons as in Zhyrinovsky in Russia.  Because Zirinovski serves to clean the field; that leads to an absurd extreme, so that it turns out that Putin's extremism to some "Third Way" - like politician image.





Quote originally posted by Dayvenkirq 

(...) How do you top this?
 (...)

I read in a newspapers.


Edited by Svetonio - April 22 2014 at 06:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 10:24
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Vladimir Zhyironovski (68), leader of the "Liberal Democratic Party of Russia" and head of the parliamentary group of the party in the Duma, incited a news conference two of his associates to "severe rape," the pregnant journalist.

Due to the attacks of Zhyronovsky, the russian nationalist and without a doubt the most bizarre caricatures of Russian post-Soviet politics, pregnant Stella Dubovickaya finished in the hospital.

Dubovicakaya, television journalist of "Russia Todey", sparked outrage Zhirinovsky with the question regarding sanctions against Ukraine. Zhyronovski immediately started yelling and directed two of his young assistant to rape her.

"When I say, run to it and rape " Zhirinovsky ordered them.





He's like the Rush Limbaugh of Russian politics.LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 12:08
^ Yes ... very close.
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by </span>Dayvenkirq<span style=line-height: 1.2;> Dayvenkirq wrote:

(...)How do you top this?(...)

I read in a newspapers.
No, what I meant was "How can you beat that? Can you come up with something dumber and crazier than what Zhirinovskiy did?" That's what that phrase means.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - April 22 2014 at 12:11
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