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RollingStone: Karl Marx predicted 2014

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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Svetonio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RollingStone: Karl Marx predicted 2014
    Posted: February 02 2014 at 03:26



"From iPhone 5S to corporate globalization, modern life is full of evidence of Marx foresight" http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/marx-was-right-five-surprising-ways-karl-marx-predicted-2014-20140130
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rdtprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 04:11
Yes he was right and close to the truth on many things, but that's why i listen to a lot of music : to forget the harsh reality of the world, economically and politically. I  enjoy the last quote from Mr. Heilbroner : "We turn to Marx, therefore, not because he is infallible, but because he is inescapable." Today, in a world of both unheard-of wealth and abject poverty, where the richest 85 people have more wealth than the poorest 3 billion, the famous cry, "Workers of the world uniteyou have nothing to lose but your chains," has yet to lose its potency.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 05:06
Sigh......

Marxism as a philosophy, and in particular as a political application, lost all credibility many moons ago.

When will the left/labour movement begin to realise it needs a radical rethink of basic principles fit for the 21st century we live in, not something born from the industrial 19th? Only then will we see real progressive politics return.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 05:19
^ adroitly put. Socialism has demonstrably failed this world over and is but a quaint anachronism in 2014. No-one has a nostalgia for a past that never occurred in the first place. This doesn't mean that rampant capitalism has been vindicated, just that there must be a middle ground worth pursuing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 05:36
^ Quite. It is also worth remembering that the 150 years ago Marx could never have predicted the social Capitalism we have today, his view of Capitalism is also an anachronism. The middle ground is possibly closer than we think.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 10:00
Playing devils advocate..

What does this middle ground look like? Would there be a lack of political choice for the electorate? One way of doing things, dressed up slightly differently between a handful of ideologically homogenized parties? I think the problem is, there will never be a consensus on what is the 'right thing to do' for the betterment of all. There has to be winners, and at least relative losers in any system, be it based in socialism or capitalism.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 10:41
Ignore party politics, none of them are ideological anyway. We don't actually live in a Capitalist society, what we have is already a "middle ground".


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Post Options Post Options   Quote rdtprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 10:44
Marx have conceptualize many observations that ordinary people have done many years ago, he didn't brings any solutions to change the social, political and economical state of the world. And nobody has done or will be able to find the ultimate justice that rule all the people on the planet. But i think that it's important to think about solutions or actions to change something in the  world, starting by each individuals and not counting only on the people who have some power in politics.


Edited by rdtprog - February 02 2014 at 10:44
“Art is the proper task of life. ”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I am not afraid of Death, I just don't want to be there when it happens".
- Woody Allen


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Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 12:08
Originally posted by Dean

Ignore party politics, none of them are ideological anyway. We don't actually live in a Capitalist society, what we have is already a "middle ground".

This is absolutely spot on, and, in my opinion, THE biggest concern that those of us who ache for a more radical solution to the many ills befalling society face.

I will not comment on other country's affairs, but, here in the UK, we are basically governed by a metropolitan liberal elite, Labour, Lib Dems, and Tories....three parts of the same arse, and, actually really running the show, the civil service, media, and judiciary, all with the same outlook on life.

This explains the rise of a certain Farage and UKIP. Like him, or not, he, and, of course, figures such as La Le Penn and others in mainland Europe, and the Tea Party in America (apologies, I said I would not comment elsewhereLOL). People are starting to actively look at alternatives to the same old figures who have got us into the state we are in now.

Until, and unless, the mainstream parties begin to evolve, and find representatives who can break this mould, such movements will continue to flourish.

Oh, btw, looking at the original nonsense re Marx, those on the left need to get one basic and unutterable fact. In Western society, in times of trouble and strife, or liberal stasis, populations go to the right, not the left. That is why I said that the left desperately needs to find an alternative message to appeal to the masses.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 13:04
I've always preferred Groucho Marx to his more serious brother, Karl. Or was that Zeppo?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 13:07
Originally posted by Dean

Ignore party politics, none of them are ideological anyway. <span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">We don't actually live in a Capitalist society, what we have is already a "middle ground".</span>
In Europe probably... Not in the US.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 13:08
Originally posted by The Dark Elf

I've always preferred Groucho Marx to his more serious brother, Karl. Or was that Zeppo?
 
But even Karl is quite the awesome character compared to their youngest sibling, Richard.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King of Loss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 16:26
Ahh, but Marx would have loved his violent worker revolutions, what we have is a reformist trend best exemplified by The Fabian Society's services.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 16:52
Originally posted by The T

Originally posted by Dean

Ignore party politics, none of them are ideological anyway. <span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">We don't actually live in a Capitalist society, what we have is already a "middle ground".</span>
In Europe probably... Not in the US.
Wrong. But never mind.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 16:54
Originally posted by Dean


Originally posted by The T

Originally posted by Dean

Ignore party politics, none of them are ideological anyway. <span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">We don't actually live in a Capitalist society, what we have is already a "middle ground".</span>
In Europe probably... Not in the US.

Wrong. But never mind.
Why wrong? I'm not too sure the US has anything close to a middle ground. Capitalism reigns supreme.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 17:07
Originally posted by The T

Originally posted by Dean


Originally posted by The T

Originally posted by Dean

Ignore party politics, none of them are ideological anyway. <span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">We don't actually live in a Capitalist society, what we have is already a "middle ground".</span>
In Europe probably... Not in the US.

Wrong. But never mind.
Why wrong? I'm not too sure the US has anything close to a middle ground. Capitalism reigns supreme.
It's not pure capitalism - you have a welfare system, you have business regulation, you have a system of public ethics that impose a social-conscience on business and you have companies and corporations where everyone from the CEO down to the janitor is a paid employee (and with pension funds investing in stocks and shares you essentially have worker co-ownership by proxy). This is called democratic capitalism and it is what you have in America. This is not the Captialism that Marx envisioned.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 17:09
It's real capitalism. I'm not sure the capitalism Marx predicted is really doable.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 17:17
Originally posted by The T

It's real capitalism. I'm not sure the capitalism Marx predicted is really doable.
Of course it's real, it's just not true or pure. And of course Marx's form of capitalism isn't do-able, that's why it never happened.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 17:20
Well some people here might differ on the possibility of that capitalism ever happening and on its desirability. Not me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 17:30
While we live in a social democracy it cannot happen, but all things can change. 

But going back ... democratic capitalism is social capitalism and that is a middle ground between the two extremes, it does not have to be a perfect bisection for it to be workable or practical.


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
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