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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8571
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 07:57 |
Ratings are pointless without factoring in the tastes of the rater. That being said, I was surprised by the high quality of albums I have listened to from 2013.
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The Shrubbery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2011
Location: Daytona
Status: Offline
Points: 120
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 10:38 |
I don't understand why everybody keeps posting these lists of 2013 and leaving off Pete Trewavas' Edison's Children's album "The Final Breath Before November". I know the new album came out in December of 2013... but it was still a 2013 album, not 2014. If you really give it a few good listens and aren't looking for the next King Crimson but just want something haunting and dark and atmospheric... there's little out there better then they are.
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Let's make Prog a family again. Tired of Snobbery and trolling. We all have a right to love what and who we love so lets respect and appreciate all who care about the finest music in the world... prog
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 10:39 |
Bonnek wrote:
richardh wrote:
Horizons wrote:
No. I can get through 20 listens in a day. It doesn't matter - it's time that changes your view of an album and really shows it's true value.
I wouldn't want to put a number on the amount of time you need for each "stage" but i would wait a least a month. |
so is there a point when your view of an album becomes 'fixed'? |
20 listens for any album younger then 3 years is really rare. there's too much new stuff to check and too much old favorites to keep enjoying (so I might be at around 200 listens for certain 70's albums by now )
my view on an album never becomes fixed, i'm a progressing being it's one of the reasons I'm mixed about reviewing now, I wrote a couple of 1000 in a year only to find out 2 years later I sometimes don't agree at all with that older me that did them
to review an album it's certainly good to be away from it for a couple of weeks so that the initial surprise has worn off a bit
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I normally have a general idea of the structure and basics of the album in the first listen, in the second, I try to verify my first impression, ...the subjective issues (Like it, don't like it or hate it) come in the 3 and 4th listen.
Then I don't listen the album for a week (Normally because there's more stuff too listen) and about the fifth listen I heard it once more and write the review by listening it again.
In most of the cases (Lets say 90%) I know if I'm going to like an album in the first listen...If this haven't changed by the fifth listen, I know 99% it's my final opinion.
The two only albums that took me years to love are Relayer and Trespass, as a fact, I hated Trespass for years.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Online
Points: 17491
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 12:25 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
tamijo wrote:
I just hope that one day everyone will just listen to the music, forget about overrated underrated points and scores.
Just listen to the music, enjoy every single track as if it was the only piece of music in the world, think about what the artist had in mind with this particular piece, ect ect.
It is not a sports contest.
Points are totaly irrelevant when it comes to art. Even more so if you start thinking about a year v year contest, what is the point ? |
There are Great, Good, Average, medioccre and bad albums.
That'ssomething we can't deny.
We only say our truth |
...we only say our opinion, not truth. Reviewing is subjective, an opinion not truth. |
I said OUR truth, not the truth.
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I'm not going to piss about this for 50 posts but regardless of your truth or his truth or my truth or our truth.......A review is an opinion, not truth, regardless of where/who it comes from. All reviewers are doing is stating their opinion of an album/artist, whether it is from one listen or 20 listens. This is why people gripe and moan when their favorite album received a 2 star and they feel it should be a 5 star. Just because one album received 100 5 star ratings and you gave it a 2 star..does not mean the 100 people are telling the truth and you are wrong, you would not admit you are wrong....Its only an opinion, there is no truth. But it is only an opinion.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: @ wicker man
Status: Offline
Points: 32631
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 12:47 |
I wouldn't argue the semantics here too much. A personal truth (also known as subjective truth as opposed to objective truth) is in the realm of opinion. To say that something is my truth is commonly synonymous with saying that it is my opinion (though there are often differences in nuance). Personal truth is about personal perspective as I use it, and what's true to one person need not be true to another.
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 12:57 |
Horizons wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
Horizons wrote:
No. I can get through 20 listens in a day. It doesn't matter - it's time that changes your view of an album and really shows it's true value.
I wouldn't want to put a number on the amount of time you need for each "stage" but i would wait a least a month. | I've reviewed during my first listen (once).
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My opinion of and thoughts on the album (Laughing Stock) has not changed (which is a rare case). I should say that I listened to it once all the way through, and wrote my thoughts as I listened to the album, and then ping ponged between tracks especially to listen to mood transitions while reading bios and interviews. I was really just testing the approach of writing down my first impressions, and have kept doing that for my other reviews, although with my other reviews I've made sure to listen to the album many more times.
Edited by Polymorphia - February 13 2014 at 12:59
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Online
Points: 17491
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 13:00 |
Logan wrote:
I wouldn't argue the semantics here too much. A personal truth (also known as subjective truth as opposed to objective truth) is in the realm of opinion. To say that something is my truth is commonly synonymous with saying that it is my opinion (though there are often differences in nuance). Personal truth is about personal perspective as I use it, and what's true to one person need not be true to another.
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Thanks
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bloodnarfer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 2162
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 13:11 |
Honestly, I don't have a problem with reviewing like that. First impressions are just as important as last impressions. I think 20 listens might be overkill, dulling the senses to what made that album so great in the first place, and you forget how strong your feelings were when you first listened to it. An album that holds up for that long may have the 'classic' quality but IMO there are five star worhty albums that maybe aren't supposed to be listened to that many times.
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 15:25 |
bloodnarfer wrote:
Honestly, I don't have a problem with reviewing like that. First impressions are just as important as last impressions. I think 20 listens might be overkill, dulling the senses to what made that album so great in the first place, and you forget how strong your feelings were when you first listened to it. An album that holds up for that long may have the 'classic' quality but IMO there are five star worhty albums that maybe aren't supposed to be listened to that many times.
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20 listens for the sake of a review is certainly overkill. Who would want to listen to an album that took 20 listens to like? Most of the time, my opinion is fully formed by third listen, give or take. I still listen to the albums after that, but I like to let them have some space.
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altaeria
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 05 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Status: Offline
Points: 178
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 18:28 |
Polymorphia wrote:
20 listens for the sake of a review is certainly overkill. Who would want to listen to an album that took 20 listens to like?
Most of the time, my opinion is fully formed by third listen, give or take. I still listen to the albums after that, but I like to let them have some space.
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Here is the point of my original premise: If an album is a true 5-star "masterpiece"... then 20 listens should only take you around two months to complete.
If the album is soooo damn great... a mere 10 listens per month for two months should be an almost effortless exercise.
After that time passes... If you still consider the album to be amazing, then a 5-star rating is truly warranted.
If a supposed "masterpiece" becomes a chore to listen to after a half-dozen spins... then it's probably not an actual masterpiece.
I'm just sayin'
Edited by altaeria - February 13 2014 at 18:28
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 16952
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 19:03 |
richardh wrote:
Horizons wrote:
No. I can get through 20 listens in a day. It doesn't matter - it's time that changes your view of an album and really shows it's true value.
I wouldn't want to put a number on the amount of time you need for each "stage" but i would wait a least a month. |
so is there a point when your view of an album becomes 'fixed'? |
No i don't think so. Like said - it's not unexpected that a view on an album changes, but i think there is a degree of fairness to yourself and the artist to give them a proper, developed rating and reasoning behind it. Now that change may never happen but i can assume that my thoughts on Deloused in the Comatorium won't chage because of the impact it has had on me already as well as the amount of listening i've already done since its release.
just my thoughts.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 16952
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 19:04 |
Yea really..
I already dislike the original..
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14256
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 19:37 |
2013 is not that memorable in terms of music but it was better than 2012 as i recall. The list of albums in the best of 2013 are definitely worth listening to even if they may not all be masterpieces.
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KublaKhan
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 15 2013
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 3
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Posted: February 13 2014 at 21:46 |
Fantastic Year!
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ergaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 294
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Posted: February 16 2014 at 09:02 |
It was damned good for me, but then I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention in 2012 because I was too busy discovering some older stuff. A lot of the stuff I discovered in 2013 though was post rock and post metal, which has become a rather important genre for me. But I really loved quite a few albums from this year. I had a tie for No. 1 but one of those was not prog.
As for the ratings...from the day I joined this site I found the ratings generally inflated. Five-star albums should be exceedingly rare beasts but around here they are as common as dirt on the ground. The no half-star option doesn't help, and I too tend to round up rather than down. I usually point this out at the start of my review though, if I have done that.
I think I have written only one five-star review. Quite a few 4-star though, but either they deserved it or they were rounded up from a 3.5. But I do have 3-star reviews as well. Anything I think is worse than that...it is unlikely I will muster up the interest to write a review for an album like that.
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We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty. Captain Malcolm Reynolds Reality rules, Honor the truth Chemist99a R.I.P.
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RyanElliott
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2011
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 111
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Posted: February 20 2014 at 06:57 |
javajeff wrote:
We have a top 100 where just about everything is 3.90 or better, and 72 have a 4.00 or better. Aside from the top 10, was 2013 really that good? We have ratings of new music that seems a little too good.
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I was in a lecture recently, where 50 of us had to mark three stand up comedians out of 50. Our criteria was based on their stage presence, their tone, phrasing, the sound, the structure of their performance.
These are pretty black and white things to point out if you initially think about it, but when we revealed our marks, the range of them varied greatly from as little as 25 to as high as 48, the average for all three comedians were in between 30 and 40. The outcome of this experiment was that no matter what criteria people set themselves to grade something, subjectivity is always an influence. It all depends on people's taste, in the case of this website, what they like about prog. A lot of fans will be drawn here, which is probably why the ratings are drawn higher, ultimately it becomes hard to distinguish a clear cut sense of validity with ratings. It is about opinion after all.
I can never really feel recommended to ratings alone, reviews will have more stock of course, because, it goes into more detail and I can match that with what I personally like: but in all honesty, the best person to rate something for themselves is indeed themselves!
Nevertheless, rating stuff is rather fun!
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OpenLens
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 11 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 11
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Posted: February 20 2014 at 16:00 |
2013 was the best year for progressive music in a long time.
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Lynx33
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 28 2008
Location: Hungary
Status: Offline
Points: 500
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Posted: February 22 2014 at 10:47 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
I think people forget that 3 stars means a good album. |
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Mindez elmúlt. Ma már tudom köszönteni a szépséget.
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 16952
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Posted: February 22 2014 at 11:27 |
Lynx33 wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
I think people forget that 3 stars means a good album. |
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Naw man.
5* I could get through it.
1* I heard something that didn't tickle my fancy.
Edited by Horizons - February 22 2014 at 11:27
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: February 22 2014 at 17:49 |
If it wasn't that good you might have picked the wrong stuff to listen to....
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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