Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Earliest ProtoProg Beatles Song?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Earliest ProtoProg Beatles Song?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Message
brainstormer View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 616
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brainstormer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Earliest ProtoProg Beatles Song?
    Posted: February 23 2014 at 22:05
"And Your Bird Can Sing" (1966) has guitar work which I think is the proggiest sounding
music I've heard on such an early album.  


--
Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net


Back to Top
Horizons View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Post/Math Rock Team

Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 15083
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2014 at 22:33
Tomorrow Never Knows. 
I Will Write Peace All Over Your Wings And You Will Fly Around The World
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4841
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2014 at 00:16
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Tomorrow Never Knows.†
^ Without me going any further into this thread, TNK is a masterpiece of what was to become 'Progressive Rock'. I really don't think the guys ever topped this one.
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Motorville
Status: Offline
Points: 11063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2014 at 07:03
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Tomorrow Never Knows. 
Yes, it has to be TNK as it's on the same album as "And Your Bird Can Sing".
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 7016
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Svetonio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2014 at 07:05
Strawbery Fields Forever / Penny Lane the single.
Back to Top
Stool Man View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 30 2007
Location: Anti-Cool (anag
Status: Offline
Points: 2196
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stool Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2014 at 07:29
Earliest? 
 
To quote from their wiki page:
"In mid-October 1965, the Beatles entered the recording studio; for the first time in making an album, they had an extended period without other major commitments.Released in December, Rubber Soul has been hailed by critics as a major step forward in the maturity and complexity of the band's music.Their thematic reach was beginning to expand as they embraced deeper aspects of romance and philosophy.Biographers Peter Brown and Steven Gaines attribute the new musical direction to "the Beatles' now habitual use of marijuana", an assertion confirmed by the bandóLennon referred to it as "the pot album", and Starr said, "Grass was really influential in a lot of our changes, especially with the writers. And because they were writing different material, we were playing differently."  After Help!'s foray into the world of classical music with flutes and strings, Harrison's introduction of a sitar on "Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)" marked a further progression outside the traditional boundaries of popular music. As their lyrics grew more artful, fans began to study them for deeper meaning. "
 
"We Can Work It Out" (also recorded in October 1965) keeps changing tempo and has a waltz in the middle.
 
So in October '65 they were heading in progesque direction (increased complexity, artful lyrics, expanding themes, sitar, and pot)
"Tomorrow Never Knows" wasn't recorded until six months later.


Edited by Stool Man - February 24 2014 at 07:37
rotten hound of the burnie crew
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 1547
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2014 at 08:59
Hm, the Beatles may have been proto-prog - but of which Genre? They certainly were not proto-symphonic prog - The reason - I think that Genesis/Yes/ELP were far more influenced by classical music - thus proto-symphonic prog really couldn't happen because the classical music that it's mainly derived from was classical music - thus I think that proto-prog probably led to other genres!
Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
Back to Top
Rick Robson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Status: Offline
Points: 1249
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Robson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2014 at 09:30
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Hm, the Beatles may have been proto-prog - but of which Genre? They certainly were not proto-symphonic prog - The reason - I think that Genesis/Yes/ELP were far more influenced by classical music - thus proto-symphonic prog really couldn't happen because the classical music that it's mainly derived from was classical music - thus I think that proto-prog probably led to other genres!

 
If we think that way we can't even call Genesis/Yes/ELP "symphonic" given their musical distance from a polyphonic classical musica piece...
"Going on means going far. Going far means returning. (Tao Te Ching)"
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 7016
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Svetonio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2014 at 11:22
^ In ex-Yugoslavia, we were called all of them 'sympho-rock' because of that Mellotron sound. We knew for 'progressive rock' term but it was used rarely for the big four. It was like that untill Discipline - what we could not called 'sympho-rock' at all, lol.

Edited by Svetonio - February 24 2014 at 12:12
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Online
Points: 2544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2014 at 21:42
"She Loves You", which The Beatles released in German as "Sie Liebt Dich", thus creating Krautrock. LOL
Please pay a visit to my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music reviews, literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Mozambique
Status: Offline
Points: 3380
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2014 at 00:15
Originally posted by brainstormer brainstormer wrote:

<span style="color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12.800000190734863px; line-height: 17px;">"And Your Bird Can Sing" (1966) has guitar work which I think is the proggiest sounding</span>
<span style="color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12.800000190734863px; line-height: 17px;">music I've heard on such an early album. †</span>
<span style="color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12.800000190734863px; line-height: 17px;"></span>
<span style="color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12.800000190734863px; line-height: 17px;"></span>


I love that song, Brainstormer
And to me also the first metal track was by The Beatles with Helter Skelter another
When playing strip poker, make sure you are wearing a lot of clothes! or google will ban you ;)
Back to Top
smartpatrol View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 15 2012
Location: My Bedroom
Status: Offline
Points: 14164
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smartpatrol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2014 at 00:49
i don't see how the Beatles were proto prog, maybe except for A Day in the Life
Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Mozambique
Status: Offline
Points: 3380
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2014 at 00:57
Originally posted by smartpatrol smartpatrol wrote:

i don't see how the Beatles were proto prog, maybe except for A Day in the Life



Smartpatrol
Please define proto prog for me? I was under the impression that it meant one of the first and foremost ahead of others in music terms. The Beatles were way beyond anyone else I believe, in terms both rock and experimental music i.e. adding the sitar, French horns etc.
When playing strip poker, make sure you are wearing a lot of clothes! or google will ban you ;)
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 7016
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Svetonio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2014 at 01:13
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by smartpatrol smartpatrol wrote:

i don't see how the Beatles were proto prog, maybe except for A Day in the Life



Smartpatrol
Please define proto prog for me? I was under the impression that it meant one of the first and foremost ahead of others in music terms. The Beatles were way beyond anyone else I believe, in terms both rock and experimental music i.e. adding the sitar, French horns etc.

As Knobby explained to us earlier in this sub-forum, Proto Prog was a term used by British vinyls dealers in their ancient catalogues for the specific sound of late 60s - early 70s rock bands who were created that Hammond organ driven sound; Mellotron was also gratefulness but Hammond organ sound was a general rule. If a music is to containing synths, it's not proto prog. Early Deep Purple is maybe the best example of proto prog sound Smile


Edited by Svetonio - February 25 2014 at 01:14
Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Mozambique
Status: Offline
Points: 3380
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2014 at 01:35
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:



Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by smartpatrol smartpatrol wrote:

i don't see how the Beatles were proto prog, maybe except for A Day in the Life



Smartpatrol
Please define proto prog for me? I was under the impression that it meant one of the first and foremost ahead of others in music terms. The Beatles were way beyond anyone else I believe, in terms both rock and experimental music i.e. adding the sitar, French horns etc.

As Knobby explained to us earlier in this sub-forum, Proto Prog was a term used by British vinyls dealers in their ancient catalogues for the specific sound of late 60s - early 70s rock bands who were created that Hammond organ driven sound; Mellotron was also gratefulness but Hammond organ sound was a general rule. If a music is to containing synths, it's not proto prog. Early Deep Purple is maybe the best example of proto prog sound†Smile


Thank you very much for the feedback Sventonio,

I have not seen nor was I aware of any sub forum topic posts in regards to this on this site, however to me as a Latin speaking person who equally studied ancient Greek, this term makes no sense at all. Proto means the beginning, when the change began, this by no means is related to mellotron, novatron etc.
I do believe proto prog might have a bit of jazz and psychedelic influences unlike Italian prog which tends to be more symphonic (orchestration)   
When playing strip poker, make sure you are wearing a lot of clothes! or google will ban you ;)
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 7016
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Svetonio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2014 at 02:35
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:



Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by smartpatrol smartpatrol wrote:

i don't see how the Beatles were proto prog, maybe except for A Day in the Life



Smartpatrol
Please define proto prog for me? I was under the impression that it meant one of the first and foremost ahead of others in music terms. The Beatles were way beyond anyone else I believe, in terms both rock and experimental music i.e. adding the sitar, French horns etc.

As Knobby explained to us earlier in this sub-forum, Proto Prog was a term used by British vinyls dealers in their ancient catalogues for the specific sound of late 60s - early 70s rock bands who were created that Hammond organ driven sound; Mellotron was also gratefulness but Hammond organ sound was a general rule. If a music is to containing synths, it's not proto prog. Early Deep Purple is maybe the best example of proto prog sound Smile




(...) this term makes no sense at all. (...) 

Of course, because that term does not mean anything by itself. However, the term was used by dealers for reasons to mark that sound on their lists. As you know, in that ancient time, you're receiving a mail with a dealer's list and then you choose LP, and orderrng. In these lists were only the names of the bands & albums, style, a record company name & price.





Edited by Svetonio - March 04 2014 at 00:32
Back to Top
brainstormer View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 616
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brainstormer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2014 at 11:08
I picked up the term from literary history when defining the Proto-Surrealists of late
19th Century France.  I just moved it over to music.  It can be used, and is used
academically, to define any early instance of a trend in all the arts.
--
Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net


Back to Top
dr wu23 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 4771
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2014 at 11:11
Talking about proto prog there is a proto prog thread here;....your favorite proto prog album and the Beatles were mentioned several times on the thread.
 
I  never really thought of the Beatles as doing any 'proto prog', since it did refer to a specific type of style and sound as many have already mentioned,  but they certainly used psychedelic rock with many new approaches to recording and sound effects as in orchestration , etc. But then Tomorrow never Knows, Strawberry Fields , and I Am The Walrus could certainly fit into one's definition of proto prog.
 
Et In Arcadia Ego
Back to Top
Horizons View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Post/Math Rock Team

Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 15083
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2014 at 11:17
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by smartpatrol smartpatrol wrote:

i don't see how the Beatles were proto prog, maybe except for A Day in the Life



Smartpatrol
Please define proto prog for me? I was under the impression that it meant one of the first and foremost ahead of others in music terms. The Beatles were way beyond anyone else I believe, in terms both rock and experimental music i.e. adding the sitar, French horns etc.

Perfectly said for me, Sonia.


Edited by Horizons - February 26 2014 at 11:17
I Will Write Peace All Over Your Wings And You Will Fly Around The World
Back to Top
brainstormer View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 616
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brainstormer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2014 at 12:31
I think because it's the Beatles, some don't want to give them much credit for being anything else but teenybopper
icons.  It's interesting to contrast the solo careers of Lennon and McCartney.  Dream #9 by Lennon seems to be
his most prog song.   I'm not saying it's his most "avant garde" song.  
--
Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.