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Gedhead View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 08:53


Vai has more reason to be here than that band whose name starts with Q.  I don't have as much of a problem with this one.  He did put some quality time in with Zappa and prog influences are definitely in his music. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 08:55
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

It's unreal - I have no idea why you guys are so sure that you're right. Preferring Malmsteen to Vai when it comes to Symphonic music ... that's one of the sickest statements I've ever read.

But we don't have to agree - I know that I'm right and you're wrong (IMHO of course).

So excuse me while I'm listening to some fascinating music - have a look at Steve who makes a facial expression similiar to mine at this moment:

^^EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!

with his stupid sunglasses tucked neatly into his frilly shirt.  and that damn ugly guitar.  I dont think he got enough attention as a child.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 08:56

That better?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:02
much.  thanks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:03
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

It's unreal - I have no idea why you guys are so sure that you're right. Preferring Malmsteen to Vai when it comes to Symphonic music ... that's one of the sickest statements I've ever read.

But we don't have to agree - I know that I'm right and you're wrong (IMHO of course).

Great picture, MikeEnRegalia - but let me make something clear: I said that "at least Malmsteen wrote symphonic rock", but I didn't say that he wrote good symphonic rock! BTW, I think that Vai is a better guitarist and composer than Malmsteen (and singer too, but happily Malmsteen doesn't sings very often) - and I have more Vai CDs in my collection than Malmsteen. I must assume that you are a Zappa fan; if I'm right, could you recommend me a good Zappa CD featuring Vai (never listed to any, and I'm curious).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:07
Originally posted by GoldenSpiral GoldenSpiral wrote:

^^EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!

with his stupid sunglasses tucked neatly into his frilly shirt.  and that damn ugly guitar.  I dont think he got enough attention as a child.



So that is your argument against Vai? Having a Frilly shirt and ugly guitar (?) doesn`t mean his music is not prog.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:09
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by dkearns dkearns wrote:

Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:


Ok I love steve vai more than life itself but I do agree with you. Put simply his music is only acsessable to musicians. As I said before he is my hero but he does not belong here.



Does that mean that this non-musician has been deluding himself?

Yeah... I didn't understand Chris' post either!

 

All I was saying is that from my experience only people who play guitar find his music apealing. Whats not to understand about it?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:10
Originally posted by M. B. Zapelini M. B. Zapelini wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

It's unreal - I have no idea why you guys are so sure that you're right. Preferring Malmsteen to Vai when it comes to Symphonic music ... that's one of the sickest statements I've ever read.

But we don't have to agree - I know that I'm right and you're wrong (IMHO of course).

Great picture, MikeEnRegalia - but let me make something clear: I said that "at least Malmsteen wrote symphonic rock", but I didn't say that he wrote good symphonic rock! BTW, I think that Vai is a better guitarist and composer than Malmsteen (and singer too, but happily Malmsteen doesn't sings very often) - and I have more Vai CDs in my collection than Malmsteen. I must assume that you are a Zappa fan; if I'm right, could you recommend me a good Zappa CD featuring Vai (never listed to any, and I'm curious).

I'd recommend You Are What You Is and Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch. But you'll have a hard time recognizing Vai on those recordings, because he really just played what Zappa told him to. I'd recommend his album Flex-Able, it's very much influenced by his time as Zappa's guitarist. It features some songs that he often plays on tour even now, more than 20 years later: Call it Sleep and The Attitude Song.

BTW: If you want to get to know Zappa, I'd strongly recommend buying live recordings or even better: Live DVDs. There's a nice Zappa DVD available on Ebay, it's called "The Torture Never Stops". It's an entire concert (about 2 hours) from 1981 featuring - among others - Steve Vai.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:12

yea, I dont really mean hes not progressive, he probably is, and I like many metal-fusion guitarists.  I just have a personal problem with Steve.  he just annoys me.  hes a great musician and all, his image problem just rubs me the wrong way I guess.  Im not saying he shouldnt be included.  Im just venting my frustrations.

it also could be that I'm jealous.

but probably not.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:15
Originally posted by GoldenSpiral GoldenSpiral wrote:

yea, I dont really mean hes not progressive, he probably is, and I like many metal-fusion guitarists.  I just have a personal problem with Steve.  he just annoys me.  hes a great musician and all, his image problem just rubs me the wrong way I guess.  Im not saying he shouldnt be included.  Im just venting my frustrations.

it also could be that I'm jealous.

but probably not.

I thought you were a bass player - if any, you might be jealous of Billy Sheehan (he has been touring with Steve for years).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:20
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by M. B. Zapelini M. B. Zapelini wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

It's unreal - I have no idea why you guys are so sure that you're right. Preferring Malmsteen to Vai when it comes to Symphonic music ... that's one of the sickest statements I've ever read.

But we don't have to agree - I know that I'm right and you're wrong (IMHO of course).

Great picture, MikeEnRegalia - but let me make something clear: I said that "at least Malmsteen wrote symphonic rock", but I didn't say that he wrote good symphonic rock! BTW, I think that Vai is a better guitarist and composer than Malmsteen (and singer too, but happily Malmsteen doesn't sings very often) - and I have more Vai CDs in my collection than Malmsteen. I must assume that you are a Zappa fan; if I'm right, could you recommend me a good Zappa CD featuring Vai (never listed to any, and I'm curious).

I'd recommend You Are What You Is and Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch. But you'll have a hard time recognizing Vai on those recordings, because he really just played what Zappa told him to. I'd recommend his album Flex-Able, it's very much influenced by his time as Zappa's guitarist. It features some songs that he often plays on tour even now, more than 20 years later: Call it Sleep and The Attitude Song.

BTW: If you want to get to know Zappa, I'd strongly recommend buying live recordings or even better: Live DVDs. There's a nice Zappa DVD available on Ebay, it's called "The Torture Never Stops". It's an entire concert (about 2 hours) from 1981 featuring - among others - Steve Vai.

Thanks!! I will search for those albums. "The Torture Never Stops" - one of my favourite titles ever, I always use it when somebody plays awful music (there is a Brazilian musical style called "pagode" which is the best definiton to tortue).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:25

eh, I prefer stu hamm to sheehan, though he is really good.

I just think maybe there are some people more deserving than Vai.  Satriani is better than Vai IMO, and Buckethead is more progressive and original.  I think a recent headline in The Onion summed Vai up nicely "STEVE VAI IMPRESSES THE HELL OUT OF NEIGHBORHOOD 12 YEAR OLDS"

 (I can't find a link sadly, they make you pay for it these days )

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:30
Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by dkearns dkearns wrote:

Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:


Ok I love steve vai more than life itself but I do agree with you. Put simply his music is only acsessable to musicians. As I said before he is my hero but he does not belong here.



Does that mean that this non-musician has been deluding himself?

Yeah... I didn't understand Chris' post either!

 

All I was saying is that from my experience only people who play guitar find his music apealing. Whats not to understand about it?

Thats what I don't understasnd, it simply isn't true!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:31
Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:36

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".

Once agian I agree with everything Mike has been saying, this is becoming a habit!

To me Satriani's music is far more "Straightforward" than Vai's. The Pupil has become greater than the Master!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:37
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:

All I was saying is that from my experience only people who play guitar find his music apealing. Whats not to understand about it?

Thats what I don't understasnd, it simply isn't true!

He has a point. I'd say that the basic (prog) music fan either likes virtuosity, or he doesn't. If he doesn't like it, it may cloud his judgement of what else the artist has to offer. The other way round, people who love virtuosity are influenced by that also - they might overrate the artist because his virtuosity might distract them from other qualities that are more important.

I think that originality, emotionality and artistical integrity are the most important qualities of artists. Vai has all that AND the virtuosity, and that's why he's my favorite guitarist.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:40
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".

Once agian I agree with everything Mike has been saying, this is becoming a habit!

To me Satriani's music is far more "Straightforward" than Vai's. The Pupil has become greater than the Master!

I agree with you also - I guess the phrase that I highlighted is synonymous to "far less progressive".

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 09:55

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".

vais fire garden suite is based on the phrygian dominant scale and so is satrianis oriental melody then it moves to the phrygian scale then minor pentatonic. Not complex? I think satriani could play with an orchestra but he just chooses not to. And I can see how you call him shred which he is but if you disect his music it is so much more, some examples Flying in a blue dream song, Rubina, and my favorite starry night. He puts so much feeling into his music maybe emo shred fits him.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 10:00
Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".

vais fire garden suite is based on the phrygian dominant scale and so is satrianis oriental melody then it moves to the phrygian scale then minor pentatonic. Not complex? I think satriani could play with an orchestra but he just chooses not to. And I can see how you call him shred which he is but if you disect his music it is so much more, some examples Flying in a blue dream song, Rubina, and my favorite starry night. He puts so much feeling into his music maybe emo shred fits him.

I did say that I like Satch, and although I called him "Shred", he's far from being a "mindless shredder" like Michael Angelo Batio or Yngwie Malmsteen. I really love his ballads and acoustic songs, and laid back blues variations like the last track on The Extremist.

You can't reduce the Fire Garden Suite to scales. Phrygian dominant is indeed a scale that's heavily used by Shredders in the Metal domain. Consider Lucky Charms, if the oriental influences distract you from the other means of symphonic composition.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2005 at 10:00
Originally posted by Chris88 Chris88 wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Joe Satriani never wrote music as complex, innovative and well-composed as Vai's Fire Garden suite, Lucky Charms, Bledsoe Blvd, etc. And his recent collaborations with orchestras (Fire Strings in Tokyo, Metropole Orkest) are entirely out of reach for Satriani. I like his music also, but IMO he lacks any progressive attitude. He is a perfect icon for the label "Shred".

vais fire garden suite is based on the phrygian dominant scale and so is satrianis oriental melody then it moves to the phrygian scale then minor pentatonic. Not complex? I think satriani could play with an orchestra but he just chooses not to. And I can see how you call him shred which he is but if you disect his music it is so much more, some examples Flying in a blue dream song, Rubina, and my favorite starry night. He puts so much feeling into his music maybe emo shred fits him.

emo shred?  I think not, but other than that you hit the nail on the head .  Satch's music to me comes across as much more honest and meaningful and well-composed.  Vai's "hey, look at me I'm a badass" antics make Satriani look humble in comparison.  let me clarify that i'm not crying "unprog" at vai, just stating my preferences.

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