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The longevity of prog (and rock) music

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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The longevity of prog (and rock) music
    Posted: March 25 2014 at 10:36
Originally posted by Rick Robson

 ... 
I respect your thoughts, and of course Picasso's Cubism, but as i've said - that style can be of such a great timeless spirit to many people, but to be honest not for me.
 
The only thing you want to grab from it, is the harshness of the time and place. It always affects people and what they do and how they feel.
 
For the same similar ciscumstances, I also state that ITCOTCK is also one of the best snapshots of 1968/69 London that will ever be seen in any history book, movie or film!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2014 at 10:50
I knew somehow between the years of 1978 and 1983 that people in society desired new music. Prog was fading and regarding the industry, I felt that their harsh acts were a bit premeditated. One story I should tell: We were on a bus , very delirious from road travel, and began to make fun of Jerry Vale songs. We were the opening act for Vale that night and so we pulled up to Club Bene and saw that a staff member was taking down the sign which read Renaissance. At first we didn't believe it and we were very stupied ..asking questions which in return annoyed the corporation. Most of us were in our early 20's in 1981 and were truly shocked to see this band play small venues. As I said before..the balance of profit, the inhouse decisions, were confusing. They were confusing to us because we witnessed the theatres packed to see Prog ...yet these bands were no longer performing in the larger venues. Most musicians I knew assumed that it was a bit premeditated and simply because...if a certain style of music performed by a tight unit...packed theatres then there would be no reason or cause to not continue placing them in the larger venues and as an addition...giving them more support/promotion.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2014 at 11:12
In 78' and 79' ...the band Nektar used to play around the corner from us at a place called Alexander's. We just COMPLETELY lost control. I mean to say...that loads of kids hopping from 1 venue to the next ..were amazed by Nektar and yet the band never seemed to get the proper backing. Although they were signed to Passport records , they just needed a little more promotion. I mean to say..and for real..that people were crazy over this band. And..I can only ..unfortunately..speak for the east coast of the U.S. It just takes some reading between the lines to understand what precisely was going on here with the industry. I had close ties with the Rock music scene which was very huge in the theatre circuit between 76' (which was when I started) and 84' . Johnny Winter, Rick Derringer, Ian Hunter, Rossington/Collins band and so many others who played "Hard Rock", "Blues Rock", "Boogie", had been shifted from stadiums/huge halls to theatres. Except keep one thought in mind and you will just have to believe me. It was 10 times worse for Prog. The reason...I don't know. I felt depressed over the issue. Everywhere I performed..the DJ's were anti-Prog and I assume that the promoters did not advice conflict from respected DJ's who had worthy positions in radio. They killed Prog. Happy the Man had not one chance to prove themselves beyond the theatre circuit when DJ's were giving their albums away or letting them collect dust instead of playing them over a huge sound system.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2014 at 11:29
^^^  How much money did prog rock bands make for the labels, though?  It seems many of them did not necessarily push millions of albums off the shelves even if they were popular as live acts.  Somebody had shared a link to read a book on Fripp in the thread on Moonchild and it's mentioned there that Fripp used his bare-bones Frippertronics tour to promote Exposure.  The album sold more than the label had expected while the loss Fripp made on the Frippertronics tour was, according to his claim, far less than a typical tour organised for big bands.  If the extant way of doing things in the 70s had become too bloated, I can somewhat put in perspective the industry's determination to replace it with something else that they thought was leaner.  Not that they were necessarily right about it but otherwise what explains an industry-wide plot to sideline a genre of music that was making money for them?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2014 at 11:31
I have also read a 'story' (I don't know how reliable it is, hence the quotes) that Renaissance never wanted to release Northern Lights as a single and the label insisted on it because they said they needed to make some money to recoup their losses.  That seems to fit in with Fripp's views on the music industry as it was in the 70s.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2014 at 12:09
Originally posted by ExittheLemming


Originally posted by Guldbamsen


A few years ago, whilst talking to a female friend of mine, something hit home with me. We were sitting in some park drinking white wine and eating fruit (yeah I know playaTongue), and we started talking about music. I quickly realised just far removed she was from my listening habits, as most women tend to be, but then she told me about getting goosebumps and chills down her spine from a Lady Gaga song. Oh my word! I couldn't believe what I was hearing, but tried acting all cool about it. I may even have made a somewhat badly timed joke about it, but it was just because I found her words so....erm...wrong perhaps? She was experiencing music in much the same manner as I was - she was a complete music nut who talked to similar people on the internet about whatever new and exciting thing was on the horizon. 
After that experience, I left all of my preservations about "bad" music behind. Bad/beautiful music is, and will always be, in the ear of the beholder. All the other sh*te is merely condescending non-sense from people who think they're smart and specially enlightened because they listen to prog/classical/jazz/trance/polka you name it.

Perceptive post certainly. Some of the most intelligent people I know have no affinity for what esoteric music may or may not have to offer. Several years ago I played a qualified psychiatrist The End by the Doors re the oedipal aspects of the lyrics etc. His response was that although he was intrigued and slightly unnerved by the music, the lyrics were in his estimation those of a dilettante undergraduate who confuses the familiar with the familial. That's not to undermine the worth of Jim Morrison or the Doors as musicians of course, but our response to the messenger is always much more illuminating than the message.BTW don't diss da polka bomb beeatchCool



Originally posted by ExittheLemming


Originally posted by Guldbamsen


A few years ago, whilst talking to a female friend of mine, something hit home with me. We were sitting in some park drinking white wine and eating fruit (yeah I know playaTongue), and we started talking about music. I quickly realised just far removed she was from my listening habits, as most women tend to be, but then she told me about getting goosebumps and chills down her spine from a Lady Gaga song. Oh my word! I couldn't believe what I was hearing, but tried acting all cool about it. I may even have made a somewhat badly timed joke about it, but it was just because I found her words so....erm...wrong perhaps? She was experiencing music in much the same manner as I was - she was a complete music nut who talked to similar people on the internet about whatever new and exciting thing was on the horizon. 
After that experience, I left all of my preservations about "bad" music behind. Bad/beautiful music is, and will always be, in the ear of the beholder. All the other sh*te is merely condescending non-sense from people who think they're smart and specially enlightened because they listen to prog/classical/jazz/trance/polka you name it.

Perceptive post certainly. Some of the most intelligent people I know have no affinity for what esoteric music may or may not have to offer. Several years ago I played a qualified psychiatrist The End by the Doors re the oedipal aspects of the lyrics etc. His response was that although he was intrigued and slightly unnerved by the music, the lyrics were in his estimation those of a dilettante undergraduate who confuses the familiar with the familial. That's not to undermine the worth of Jim Morrison or the Doors as musicians of course, but our response to the messenger is always much more illuminating than the message.BTW don't diss da polka bomb beeatchCool


I love the way you both are carrying out your thoughts on this matter. It seems to be as Dave said it, 'music is truly in the ear if the beholder.' Call it what you will, but subjectively is largely present when were dealing with other people's thoughts, feelings and perceptions when one hears a certain piece of music.
Goosebumps to lady gaga...Oedipal lyric references misinterpreted....it is all a matter of a single individual's feelings.
Personally I can sympathize with a lot of music tastes/understandings of many Individuals, but do I totally understand why they feel/think that way? Absolutely not. Goosebumps to lady gaga I could never understand.    
Seriously though. Very well thought out, lucid posts gentlemen. Nice to see/read.

Also and more importantly I really have stopped focusing and critiquing what others around me really dig in music. I figured out its really not fair to that person. I am more focused on myself and I am very thankful for what I have discovered and love. I can't force people to love what I love in music, but recently I did concert my brother to Dream Theater and he just loves them now, so I took him to the Massey hall show this month and I looked over at him and he looked so happy. That, I have to admit, made me feel good and I believe intelligence has nothing to do with it, it's just exposure.
Belhold the power and gift of BEARD! As Damian Wilson sports a beard now his voice somehow got even better than it already was. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2014 at 12:13
Also. For the record. Prog rock is in great shape right now and longevity is largely present.
I have no doubt Prog will continue to live...at least in my lifetime.
Another 60 years? You bet. :)
Belhold the power and gift of BEARD! As Damian Wilson sports a beard now his voice somehow got even better than it already was. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2014 at 18:23
Originally posted by rogerthat

^^^  How much money did prog rock bands make for the labels, though?  It seems many of them did not necessarily push millions of albums off the shelves even if they were popular as live acts.  Somebody had shared a link to read a book on Fripp in the thread on Moonchild and it's mentioned there that Fripp used his bare-bones Frippertronics tour to promote Exposure.  The album sold more than the label had expected while the loss Fripp made on the Frippertronics tour was, according to his claim, far less than a typical tour organised for big bands.  If the extant way of doing things in the 70s had become too bloated, I can somewhat put in perspective the industry's determination to replace it with something else that they thought was leaner.  Not that they were necessarily right about it but otherwise what explains an industry-wide plot to sideline a genre of music that was making money for them?

From what I recall on a personal level..is that specifically the underground Prog bands of the 70's were NOT selling enough albums ...which!...explains why Nektar albums were often found in "cut-out bins" in chain stores across the U.S. However...the industry was not willing to go the distance by substituting the lack of albums sales with advertisement and overall good promotion to the consumer. To interest the consumer based on the tactful business concept of making the unaware curious. The industry did this for certain bands who DID NOT sell considerably well at first..yet were either pets of the record companies or simply gained the interest of an important staff member who contacted the right sources to promote them on television or radio. They obviously didn't promote every outstanding band that way and it worried me. I often wondered about ulterior motives or what was on their personal agenda.
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