Challenge to early Supertramp fans

Hello everyone,
this is an amazing thread. Some 10 years ago when I discovered Supertramp's debut album and I found out it was actually a great album, I started to wonder who was singing lead vocal in Maybe I'm a Beggar. So I asked on then official Supertramp forum about who sang what on the debuut album and someone replied. I was a bit shocked to see he believed that The Shadow Song was sung by Roger Hodgson, I was pretty sure it was Rick Davies. Anyway noone agreed with me then.

Yesterday I listened to the album again after a long time and during the years and rememebered this so today early mornign I'ce checked internet with a little hope that people have grown up. AND THEY DID :D

It's no wonder that there is a discussion. In my opinion it's caused by the fact, that Rick sang The Shadow Song using technique he has never used again since. He has treated his vocal noduls more agressive creating more male blues/country sound. On the other hand it's great to have both Richard Palmer and Roger Hodgson agreeing with me, because originally I thought I had to be deaf - or the others. I remember I told my then girlfriend about this and she was also against the idea that it's Rick :D But for me - I'm a singer too, it's not that difficult to accept that a singer changes his vocal technique. The difference between The Shadow Song and let's say Rudy is similar as let's say The Fairy Feller's Master Stroke and let's say I Want it All by Freddie Mercury.

To analyse: I think that the lead vocal in verse is Rick, harmony vocal in both verses and choruses Roger.
What I am not sure about is lead vocal in chorus and the second harmony vocal.
Lead vocal in chorus is very very very soft, that could be really anyone if it's not Rick, which would be logical. There doesn seems to be a difference between the end of verse and begining of chorus.
the third harmony vocal sounds like Richard Palmer to me, it has a similar characteristic as in Maybe I'm a Beggar in spots - but it sounds like if he's trying to minimalize the "originality" - hard to describe this - which would be again logical considering those are backing vocals not lead ones.

There are some things which identify Rick: barytone sound (no tenor vocalist can sing like this), spots: 0:48, 0:58, 1:52 (playyyiiiiiing) - guys, that's Rick. It could be confusing, because he's really not pushing his body and throat like in all later songs. the higher tones are all sung with completely released body and with a wide smile. If you are not a singer, just try to relax your upper body, your throat, make a wide smile - but keep your lips 100% relaxed and your chin too and just blow the air, you'll get a similar result. When you goa bit higher, I am sure your wife will be also a bit surprised it's you singing ;-)

if someone's interested I could also make a short video demonstrating this.

thanks to everyone contributing to this thread!

Wow, I missed this thread while I was away... Lots to read, and I will address it when I got time (most likely not before the w-e, since I must rehear that amazing debut album again)

Flora wrote: Talking about Brother Where You Bound, so many people say "how much Supertramp still sounded like Supertramp" after Hodgson left, yet what most people don’t realize is that four out of the six songs were all contenders for the Famous Last Words album and were already 90% done before Hodgson left the band.   Hodgson had worked on the arrangements of Cannoball, Still in Love, Brother Where you Bound, and Ever Open Door, with Davies.  Sometimes it really frustrates me that more people don’t know that, because if they did, they could understand why the Brother album still has that sound even after Hodgson left. I tried to find the interview where I read that, but I couldn’t find it.  Did other people know this?  If anyone wants to write to Hodgson’s Facebook his staff is pretty good at answering questions and we can get it again from the horse’s mouth.  https://www.facebook.com/rogerhodgson

Edited by Sean Trane - December 14 2015 at 04:02

No matter how many years go by, my ears can't accept that voice as Rick's. I repeat my argument: it's a simple question of timbre. A good singer is capable of changing his voice to fit the mood or style of the song, but he is not able to change his timbre because that's something physical that depends on the biological constitution of the vocal chords, lungs, diaphragm, nose cavity etc. 

I found it ! For those who want to experience early Supertramp playing a proggy version of Dylan's All Along the Watchtower with 20-years-old Roger Hodgson and 26-years-old Rick Davies: https://vk.com/video-101936_164243546

But he wasn't used to the album, so he wouldn't recognise Palmer's voice even if it was him. I mean, I listened to the album half a dozen times before reaching the conclusion that it was Palmer singing (apart from, of course, listening to the rest of Supertramp's career, having been used to Rick's voice from the beginning until the very end in 2002).

Aww, I have missed this thread!

The debut album is one of my favourites of Supertramp. Even if I had not known the Palmer-interview the vocal credits on the english wikipedia would have also been my guesses.

For Shadow Song, I think that Rick is doing the lead vocals and starts the song. Great song btw.

mika68 wrote: Yes the Shadow Song is deffently sing by Richard Palmer and the Background by Roger Hodgson. He`s exists a film by a German Filmeditor named Haro Senft. In December 1969 make a short documentary film he called " Supertramp Portrait". But at this Time the Band was called " Daddy". The Band performed in this film a song by Bob Dylan " Along the Watchtower". And this Song was singing by Richard Palmer. And i think this is the same Voice of Shadow Song. Sorry for my bad English

Doesn't seem so. If you mean that in All Along the Watchtower you can hear Richard Palmer in a more similar setting to Shadow Song, it's - I am sorry - wrong. AATW live was sung very loud, I would say as loud as he could and the special quality of the vocal performace was created thanks to pre-amp setting - the sound is very overdriven/distorted. Shadow Song - I must repeat myself - was sung with an opposite setting of both pre-amp and singer himself. it's relaxed - completely and quiet. This is what I believe so confusing, because never since has Rick sang like this. He normally sings very loud and pushes his body and vocal noduls. You can hear it in I would say every song, very typicall are his EEEE and OOOO, which sound like HHHEEEYYY made by a football fan - actually talented football fans use exactly the same technique as Rick does in this spots. This technique (sometimes called overdrive) is basically between 90-100% of the loudness man can provide. There is not that much difference between these tones and the rest of the vocals he provides regarding volume so that shows how loud and powerful he provides his singing.

a good example is this, late Freddie - so already f**king experienced and with strong singing habits, the same era, one song sung almost completely relaxed (sadly for this case he gives a bit power to the words You are the Only One, when he turns into chest voice)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMblLDEGDoc

vs a song from the same era sung very agressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO2Oi6GQzWM




Edited by JakubVS - December 21 2015 at 12:24

Can anyone find that All Along The Watchtower (Munich 70) video, please...

Cos both links have died

Formentera Lady wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Can anyone find that All Along The Watchtower (Munich 70) video, please... Cos both links have died There you go: http://vk.com/video-101936_164243546

thx