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The Dark Elf 
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 Posted: April 16 2014 at 23:13 |
 dr wu23 wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
I watched "The Ninth Gate" for the third time. Just returning to a film can change perspective and but..my issue is the frustration I feel from the representation of witchcraft which is connected to the basis of a story/script, done perfectly, but later transforms into ridiculous scenes. Roman Polanski includes all the twists and turns, role model personalities of wealthy cult members and the duel personality changes within them. He seems to have personal knowledge of the so called secret society. It feels as if he may have experienced exposure to this world ..more so..than personal research into the subject matter. He gets everything exact for 75 percent of the movie. Then he lets you down with some ridiculous scenes. He did the same in Rosemary's Baby. Although in fact most horror related films about witchcraft hardly EVER touch upon the lifestyle/environment of a witch that is evident in the real world and mostly, only if you are exposed to the high society of it. Roman Polanski is one of the few directors who gets it right , but unfortunately has ridiculous endings. A film on witchcraft should be done in a more serious vain like "The Name Of The Rose". |
I liked the 9th Gate and have also watched it several times. I agree that the ending is a bit of a let down but I'm not sure how I would have ended it either. I enjoy atmospheric films like that concerning the occult.
BTW...the Name Of The Rose really has nothing to do with 'witchcraft'.
If you like Eco novels I recommend Foucault's Pendulum.
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I don't think Toddler was inferring that The Name of the Rose is about witchcraft (although Salvatore and the peasant girl are caught in flagrante delicto with the paraphernalia of witch rites). He was merely saying that there should be a witchcraft movie with the serious nature of Eco's tale.
By the way, Wu, I really enjoyed Foucault's Pendulum (which makes Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code look like grade school lit.). You might also like The Prague Cemetery, in which Eco characterizes the malign and faceless author of The Protocols of Zion. Eco does love his conspiracies, and his descriptions of Paris are wonderful. Almost as good as Victor Hugo.
Edited by The Dark Elf - April 16 2014 at 23:14
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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sukmytoe
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Joined: March 18 2013
Location: South Africa
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Posted: April 16 2014 at 23:30 |
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For me there are five - Wes Craven's "The Hills have Eyes", "The
Shining", "The Thing", the brilliant "Dog
Soldiers" and the shark movie "The Reef". If I had to pick one it would be "Dog Soldiers"
Edited by sukmytoe - April 16 2014 at 23:41
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TODDLER
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 10:20 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
I watched "The Ninth Gate" for the third time. Just returning to a film can change perspective and but..my issue is the frustration I feel from the representation of witchcraft which is connected to the basis of a story/script, done perfectly, but later transforms into ridiculous scenes. Roman Polanski includes all the twists and turns, role model personalities of wealthy cult members and the duel personality changes within them. He seems to have personal knowledge of the so called secret society. It feels as if he may have experienced exposure to this world ..more so..than personal research into the subject matter. He gets everything exact for 75 percent of the movie. Then he lets you down with some ridiculous scenes. He did the same in Rosemary's Baby. Although in fact most horror related films about witchcraft hardly EVER touch upon the lifestyle/environment of a witch that is evident in the real world and mostly, only if you are exposed to the high society of it. Roman Polanski is one of the few directors who gets it right , but unfortunately has ridiculous endings. A film on witchcraft should be done in a more serious vain like "The Name Of The Rose". |
I liked the 9th Gate and have also watched it several times. I agree that the ending is a bit of a let down but I'm not sure how I would have ended it either. I enjoy atmospheric films like that concerning the occult.
BTW...the Name Of The Rose really has nothing to do with 'witchcraft'.
If you like Eco novels I recommend Foucault's Pendulum.
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I don't think Toddler was inferring that The Name of the Rose is about witchcraft (although Salvatore and the peasant girl are caught in flagrante delicto with the paraphernalia of witch rites). He was merely saying that there should be a witchcraft movie with the serious nature of Eco's tale.
I'm to blame for not being as clear as I should be on a forum. I need to work on expressing myself. I recall many years ago in the days of VHS..renting "The Witches" directed by Ken Russell and feeling very disturbed for the afternoon. It left an impression on me and I chose other films based on witchcraft instead which...they..were a complete let down as well. Sometimes if dark humour is placed into a script on such a subject...it substitutes or makes up for the hokey supernatural side to things..which!..are often often role played in scripts. For what reason..I don't know? I often imagine more sophisticated cult members in the real world... laughing at the representation of witchcraft and satan cults in film. To make it more interesting..your ideas must revolve around the real underworld society and unlike the cheesy 80's "Lost Boys" mentality for a popular film about vampires or a few of the nonsense scenes in "The Craft".. that gives the viewer a better chance of being educated , gaining awareness to this underworld society. These lame concepts of film making sometimes fall between creative scenes and there's no need for it. What I'm saying is that this observation does not point directly to the obvious films on witchcraft that most film fanatics find to be a big joke. Those practices are still applied in decent horror films and that's a shame. Shawshank Redemption is quite realistic regarding prison life or The Green Mile includes some interesting character roles and then I stop and wonder...how is it that a writer who writes a novel or a film director who adapts the foundation from a novel make everything seem so realistic on subjects of this nature? And yet they have no clue how to go about making a film /story on witchcraft less hokey, less annoying, and dismiss the fact that the average person might take it seriously?
By the way, Wu, I really enjoyed Foucault's Pendulum (which makes Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code look like grade school lit.). You might also like The Prague Cemetery, in which Eco characterizes the malign and faceless author of The Protocols of Zion. Eco does love his conspiracies, and his descriptions of Paris are wonderful. Almost as good as Victor Hugo. |
interesting.
Edited by TODDLER - April 17 2014 at 10:36
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Prog Sothoth
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 21:24 |
During the early to mid 00's I watched a slew of Asian horror films, most of them involving a female ghost. The first few I saw creeped the hell out of me, but I eventually got used to the vibe and the repetitive nature of the plots, appearances of the long haired ghost and general spooks & plot twists fizzled out the genre and my interest by the end of 2005.
Most of the films I saw were either Japanese or Korean, and I noticed how different the ghost woman operates in regards to the two countries. The Japanese ghost tends to be demonic, terrorizing and killing the innocent, basically anyone who either enters her house or utilizes whatever object summons her. The Korean spirit tends to be the 'vengeful ghost', killing those who brought about her death as opposed to anyone she can get her hands on. As a result, I found the better Japanese ones to be eerier and more frightening due to the pure malevolent nature of the ghost, although the Korean ones tended to have more emotional depth and in some cases societal themes, such as 'Whispering Corridors', which came out around the same time as Japan's 'Ring'. That Korean film can't compare to Ring in terms of creepiness, but the real theme behind the film, student abuse by teachers, caused a major stir, turning the small film into a hit and eventually a franchise thanks to teachers organizations trying to get the film banned. Ghosts can be scary, but abuse can be scarier.
Fav female ghost stuff from Japan: Ring Dark Water (an interesting one as it didn't follow the typical Japanese trend) Ju-on: The Curse & Ju-on: The Grudge (more of an exercise in atmosphere than anything else, but it works) Noroi (handheld camera style flick, done right)
Korean favs: Tale Of Two Sisters (one of the few real creepy ones, gorgeous visuals and good acting too) Memento Mori (followup to Whispering Corridors, takes on lesbian theme, stirs more controversy, heartfelt) Voice (4th in the Whispering Corridors series, different in that the ghost is the protagonist, not scary, but a great take on isolation and loneliness)
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Dean
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Posted: April 18 2014 at 03:07 |
Atavachron wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Always dug the whole Weyland-Yutani angle, so brilliantly real
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BTW does anyone know why the Purina logo is used in the first film? Is it meant to be a future Purina Corp divested into space industrial ventures?
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It's either a coincidence or one of the subtlest pieces of subliminal product placement. However, it's not the Purina logo, it's just very similar to it (the red squares overlap, it has rounded corners and no red border). It's only seen on air-locked doors and is a symbol used in the film as a hazard warning.
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What?
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Toaster Mantis
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Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
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Posted: April 18 2014 at 03:50 |
Prog Sothoth wrote:
Korean favs:Tale Of Two Sisters (one of the few real creepy ones, gorgeous visuals and good acting too) Memento Mori (followup to Whispering Corridors, takes on lesbian theme, stirs more controversy, heartfelt) Voice (4th in the Whispering Corridors series, different in that the ghost is the protagonist, not scary, but a great take on isolation and loneliness) |
Ever seen Kim Ki-duk's The Isle? Borderline horror territory as well, certainly very distubing while being extremely beautiful. Very little dialogue, mostly driven by visual storytelling about self-destructive and rather irredeemable people that's so unsettling precisely because it never really tries to explain or moralize. My favourite most-definitely-horror Korean filmmaker is probably Bong Joon-ho, even his more fantastically-oriented movies like the killer giant tadpole epic The Host tend to be extremely character-driven where the horror comes more from. Unfortunately I didn't have time to attend his last film, the post-apocalyptic Snowpiercer.
Edited by Toaster Mantis - April 18 2014 at 03:50
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: April 18 2014 at 10:39 |
sukmytoe wrote:
For me there are five - Wes Craven's "The Hills have Eyes", "The
Shining", "The Thing", the brilliant "Dog
Soldiers" and the shark movie "The Reef". If I had to pick one it would be "Dog Soldiers"
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I watched Dog Soldiers today and enjoyed it hugely. Stylistically it has a bit of everything really: werewolves, gore, black comedy, magnificent 'Scottish' scenery filmed entirely in Luxembourg and a plot outline that carries more than a whiff of the first Alien about it. That's not necessarily a bad thing as there are so few original stories left untold in the horror genre anyway. Apart from Sean Pertwee proving he's just a chip off the same old block of ham as his late father Jon, the acting, pace and character development are are handled very adeptly by first time director and writer Neil Marshall. This film doesn't take itself too seriously and never forgets for a second that the goal is to entertain and hopefully scare us into the bargain. Some of the British Army squaddie banter is a bit tiresome but when faced with the traitor in their midst who has now transformed into a huge and hideous snarling werewolf, Private Cooper delivers the immortal line 'have you tried licking yer own balls yet?  There are several unexpected twists before the end and although not exactly a pant filler scarywise, I would heartily recommend it.Great fun.
Edited by ExittheLemming - April 18 2014 at 10:39
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Prog Sothoth
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Posted: April 18 2014 at 20:26 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
Prog Sothoth wrote:
Korean favs:Tale Of Two Sisters (one of the few real creepy ones, gorgeous visuals and good acting too) Memento Mori (followup to Whispering Corridors, takes on lesbian theme, stirs more controversy, heartfelt) Voice (4th in the Whispering Corridors series, different in that the ghost is the protagonist, not scary, but a great take on isolation and loneliness) |
Ever seen Kim Ki-duk's The Isle? Borderline horror territory as well, certainly very distubing while being extremely beautiful. Very little dialogue, mostly driven by visual storytelling about self-destructive and rather irredeemable people that's so unsettling precisely because it never really tries to explain or moralize.
My favourite most-definitely-horror Korean filmmaker is probably Bong Joon-ho, even his more fantastically-oriented movies like the killer giant tadpole epic The Host tend to be extremely character-driven where the horror comes more from. Unfortunately I didn't have time to attend his last film, the post-apocalyptic Snowpiercer.
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The Isle was something else. Poetic, beautiful, haunting and utterly horrific at certain points. One of the only times I can think of when I actually had to cover my face with my hands and peek through my fingers at one point because I did not want to see what was about to happen but couldn't help it at the same time. The only other Kim Ki-duk film I've seen was 'Spring Summer Fall Winter...and Spring' which was gorgeous yet left me a bit cold. I actually preferred 'The Isle'.
As for Bong Joon-ho, besides 'The Host' I've seen 'Memories Of Murder' which was excellent. I really felt the frustration going on in that storyline.
I find a the darkest or at least the toughest Korean films to be those that don't focus on supernatural horror. Lee Chang-dong, for instance, made some heavy stuff like 'Peppermint Candy', and one of the most unusual love stories ever, 'Oasis'. Chan-wook Park's vengeance trilogy deserves a mention too. I could go on...
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: April 19 2014 at 06:17 |
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A rather overlooked but eminently decent offering is Lord of Darkness: Flesh of Man from 2012 being a modern adaptation of the 15th/16th/17th? century (borderline) mythical folklore tale of Sawney Bean - a Scottish cannibal and his inbred incestuous family who lived in caves near Girvan, Ayrshire while subsisting on the tortured, raped, slaughtered and butchered human flesh of their victims. Darkly comic, unremittingly visceral and with two unexpected twists at the end (one truly inspired and the other tiresome and predictable like first time director Ricky Wood lost his nerve/ran out of cash?)
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Toaster Mantis
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Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
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Posted: April 19 2014 at 06:31 |
Prog Sothoth wrote:
I find a the darkest or at least the toughest Korean films to be those that don't focus on supernatural horror. Lee Chang-dong, for instance, made some heavy stuff like 'Peppermint Candy', and one of the most unusual love stories ever, 'Oasis'. Chan-wook Park's vengeance trilogy deserves a mention too. I could go on...
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Park Chanwook vampire movie Thirst is also worth a look, at least on par with the revenge trilogy. It's interesting seeing him focus on supernatural horror while still centering the plot around uncomfortably complex moral situations. Unfortunately I also had to miss his first English-language film Stoker out of lack of time and money. Heard it's pretty good.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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dr wu23
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Posted: April 19 2014 at 10:57 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
I watched "The Ninth Gate" for the third time. Just returning to a film can change perspective and but..my issue is the frustration I feel from the representation of witchcraft which is connected to the basis of a story/script, done perfectly, but later transforms into ridiculous scenes. Roman Polanski includes all the twists and turns, role model personalities of wealthy cult members and the duel personality changes within them. He seems to have personal knowledge of the so called secret society. It feels as if he may have experienced exposure to this world ..more so..than personal research into the subject matter. He gets everything exact for 75 percent of the movie. Then he lets you down with some ridiculous scenes. He did the same in Rosemary's Baby. Although in fact most horror related films about witchcraft hardly EVER touch upon the lifestyle/environment of a witch that is evident in the real world and mostly, only if you are exposed to the high society of it. Roman Polanski is one of the few directors who gets it right , but unfortunately has ridiculous endings. A film on witchcraft should be done in a more serious vain like "The Name Of The Rose". |
I liked the 9th Gate and have also watched it several times. I agree that the ending is a bit of a let down but I'm not sure how I would have ended it either. I enjoy atmospheric films like that concerning the occult.
BTW...the Name Of The Rose really has nothing to do with 'witchcraft'.
If you like Eco novels I recommend Foucault's Pendulum.
|
I don't think Toddler was inferring that The Name of the Rose is about witchcraft (although Salvatore and the peasant girl are caught in flagrante delicto with the paraphernalia of witch rites). He was merely saying that there should be a witchcraft movie with the serious nature of Eco's tale.
By the way, Wu, I really enjoyed Foucault's Pendulum (which makes Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code look like grade school lit.). You might also like The Prague Cemetery, in which Eco characterizes the malign and faceless author of The Protocols of Zion. Eco does love his conspiracies, and his descriptions of Paris are wonderful. Almost as good as Victor Hugo. |
I saw Prague Cemetery on a remainder table at the local bookstore....I'll pick it up and read it.
Yes...Toddler was prolly just making a comparison of style.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: April 20 2014 at 06:50 |
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Just watched the original Amityville Horror with the young Margot Kidder (mmm!!). Forgot how chilling that one is.
Also Stephen King's Rose Red. Another spooky, supernatural house.
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bhikkhu
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Posted: April 20 2014 at 08:19 |
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May not exactly be a horror movie but "Wait Until Dark" with Audrey Hepburn and Alan Arkin is one of the most suspenseful movies I've ever seen.
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Atavachron
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Posted: April 21 2014 at 21:22 |
Dean wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Always dug the whole Weyland-Yutani angle, so brilliantly real
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BTW does anyone know why the Purina logo is used in the first film? Is it meant to be a future Purina Corp divested into space industrial ventures? |
It's either a coincidence or one of the subtlest pieces of subliminal product placement. However, it's not the Purina logo, it's just very similar to it (the red squares overlap, it has rounded corners and no red border). It's only seen on air-locked doors and is a symbol used in the film as a hazard warning. |
Perhaps, or a fictitious redesigned Purina logo-- I recall an interview with someone who worked on the film saying the coincidence was both fortuitous and intentional, suggesting a once innocuous petfood maker had become an ruthless corporation involved in military projects. More ironic and believable than Halliburton or something expected.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Atavachron
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Posted: April 21 2014 at 21:26 |
bhikkhu wrote:
May not exactly be a horror movie but "Wait Until Dark" with Audrey Hepburn and Alan Arkin is one of the most suspenseful movies I've ever seen. |
Oh yeah she's blind in that one? Sort of a variation on Gaslight or Dial M for Murder.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Jim Garten
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Joined: February 02 2004
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Posted: April 22 2014 at 02:11 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
sukmytoe wrote:
For me there are five - Wes Craven's "The Hills have Eyes", "The
Shining", "The Thing", the brilliant "Dog
Soldiers" and the shark movie "The Reef". If I had to pick one it would be "Dog Soldiers" |
I watched Dog Soldiers today and enjoyed it hugely. Stylistically it has a bit of everything really: werewolves, gore, black comedy, magnificent 'Scottish' scenery filmed entirely in Luxembourg and a plot outline that carries more than a whiff of the first Alien about it. That's not necessarily a bad thing as there are so few original stories left untold in the horror genre anyway. Apart from Sean Pertwee proving he's just a chip off the same old block of ham as his late father Jon, the acting, pace and character development are are handled very adeptly by first time director and writer Neil Marshall. This film doesn't take itself too seriously and never forgets for a second that the goal is to entertain and hopefully scare us into the bargain. Some of the British Army squaddie banter is a bit tiresome but when faced with the traitor in their midst who has now transformed into a huge and hideous snarling werewolf, Private Cooper delivers the immortal line 'have you tried licking yer own balls yet? There are several unexpected twists before the end and although not exactly a pant filler scarywise, I would heartily recommend it.Great fun.
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Another vote here for Dog Soldiers - thought Sean Pertwee was a perfect fit for the role & the scene where he's swearing at the yorkshire terrier trying to run away with his entrails is inspired
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 Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: April 22 2014 at 05:17 |
Jim Garten wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
sukmytoe wrote:
For me there are five - Wes Craven's "The Hills have Eyes", "The
Shining", "The Thing", the brilliant "Dog
Soldiers" and the shark movie "The Reef". If I had to pick one it would be "Dog Soldiers" |
I watched Dog Soldiers today and enjoyed it hugely. Stylistically it has a bit of everything really: werewolves, gore, black comedy, magnificent 'Scottish' scenery filmed entirely in Luxembourg and a plot outline that carries more than a whiff of the first Alien about it. That's not necessarily a bad thing as there are so few original stories left untold in the horror genre anyway. Apart from Sean Pertwee proving he's just a chip off the same old block of ham as his late father Jon, the acting, pace and character development are are handled very adeptly by first time director and writer Neil Marshall. This film doesn't take itself too seriously and never forgets for a second that the goal is to entertain and hopefully scare us into the bargain. Some of the British Army squaddie banter is a bit tiresome but when faced with the traitor in their midst who has now transformed into a huge and hideous snarling werewolf, Private Cooper delivers the immortal line 'have you tried licking yer own balls yet? There are several unexpected twists before the end and although not exactly a pant filler scarywise, I would heartily recommend it.Great fun.
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Another vote here for Dog Soldiers - thought Sean Pertwee was a perfect fit for the role & the scene where he's swearing at the yorkshire terrier trying to run away with his entrails is inspired |
Hey ho one man's Yorkshire terrier is another's border collie but yeah, reminded me of Wild at Heart where a dog runs off with a severed hand, but great fun movie all round 
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Jim Garten
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Posted: April 22 2014 at 07:16 |
Dammit - I knew it was a pooch 
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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BaldFriede
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Location: Germany
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Posted: June 15 2016 at 10:18 |
Prog 74 wrote:
Jim Garten wrote:
A lot of nods here to German expressionist cinema from the 1920ssszzzzzzz - pah! Good for its time, perhaps, but given the choice of seeing a 1920s 10 minute short against a well made modern chiller which pushes every button, I know which way my preference lies.
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Totally agree with you Jim. Those old silent films are not as scary as much as they are atmospheric. Good for projecting a gothic, impressionistic mood, but not much else. Those old films have nothing on modern horror movies. |
I totally disagree. I distinguish between "horror" and "terror". Those modern movies don't scare me it all; I consider them to be laughable even. Just jump-in-the-face terror which shocks you for a moment but has no lasting effect. Horror is what slowly creeps up your spine and lasts and lasts and lasts.
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Dean
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Posted: June 15 2016 at 11:11 |
 I'd call that a mirror.
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What?
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Your favorite Horrormovie?
