Forum Home Forum Home > Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements > Help us improve the site
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Thumbs up or down on album reviews
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedThumbs up or down on album reviews

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>
Author
Message
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46827
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 09:39
indeed.  Young bands do need the exposure.  A complete different issue. A much larger one, one that is beyhond the scope and help of this site. Far too many bands, far too few listeners.  It is Prog Darwinism out there. I've seen great bands wither and die for lack of support. Bands with highly regarded albums including good reviews here and elsewhere. It is jungle out there for new bands. Nothing we can do about that. We catalog them.  Promote them as best we can, but in the end. ahhh.. beginning to drift way off topic.

Winnowing down the reviewer base or placing demands/restrictions on them won't do a thing to help with that. Especially as the very open review policy does little as it is to help promote them. This site's primary mission, it always has been, is not to promote them. We can't do that as much as we would like to, it is to catalog them. Give the information.  I'd love to see the site be more proactive.. always have.. but it does fly in the face of what the site is geared for, and what it does best. Something no one else does.  Provides easily found information from the biggest, to the most obscure.

An album gets reviewed here.. what happens..  it sits on the main page.. perhaps a few see it. Again, many bands and readers have realized that shift and approach these bloggers and prominent reviewers for dedicated review sites to give promos with the reasonable assumption they will be reviewed and be displayed for people to read, not merely show up here on the main page for a day .. sometimes less.. before being bounced.  I just don't see reviews being that important to the main goals of the site. Other places are being used, and rightfully so, for the mission.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
Windhawk View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 11400
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 09:51
The value of a site like PA, to a much greater extent than any blog or review site out there, is that this is a place where curious people will look around. And while the initial impact of a review is limited, it will still be seen when someone stumbles upon it if by chance or if by actively looking for information on that band or album. Which happens more often than on the greater majority of blogs out there, whose number of active readers are rather limited more often than not. There are blogs and even review sites set up out there primarily for the purpose of getting free music I've been told, although I haven't checked myself to verify. But even if that isn't always the case, there are a plethora of blogs where the number of readers more or less equals the number of contributors.
Of course, we also live in an age where there's a scarcity of reviewers, especially good ones, and where the demand for reviewers is higher than the supply. Which is noticable here and elsewhere. On Amazon you'll encounter the allegorical sound of crickets on albums covered fairly in depth on this site, to put matters into some perspective.
That there should be a reviews team on this site with someone dealing with the task of handling the logistics of promo submissions is a related case. That the person(s) set up for such a theoretical position would soon be up to his or their necks in work is just one of the challenges of that of course - enter a banner with promo submissions on the frontpage of PA and direct instructions and they would be flooding in from east, west, south and north, and presumably the outer galaxies as well.
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
Back to Top
ExittheLemming View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 10:14
Lots of references so far about PA's purported role in 'supporting new Prog bands'. As Micky points out, that has never been a function of the site and if in the course of documenting and cataloging said artists we inadvertently contribute to their material success, then that is but a happy by product of our activities. I've bought albums based solely on reading a PA review and have seldom been disappointed with my purchase (there must be countless others who do likewise, so let's not belittle the role of PA reviews in purchasing decisions for consumers at large) Raff raises a good point about the (relatively recent) availability of streaming internet audio to listen to and sample pretty much ALL music available for purchase (or is otherwise deleted) and this further leads me to posit we could implement a requirement for new members to submit their first review that of a previously unreviewed album. This wouldn't be so hard would it? - most of the music in question is out there and can be heard


Edited by ExittheLemming - January 25 2015 at 10:25
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46827
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 10:47
compulsary reviews?

not completely unheard of Iain.  When I was promoted it wasn't because of my reviews, I hadn't reviewed a single album,  it is (as my reviewing proved) NOT a talent of mine. My talents lie elsewhere, as my sponsor/recruiter recognized.  I knew the music and could discuss it and debate it with the best of them and was willing to work for/on the site.

However as I was an unknown quality, who came here from another prog site, before I got promoted I was 'made' to do a series of reviews before being promoted. They sucked still but I guess it satisfied the admin team of the time. That said, some are better reviewers than others, some more confident in their abilities others far less so, and yes, that lack of confidence can impact the results.

for the umpteenth time. I really don't see the point, or need for doing anything with the reviews and/or reviewers. Some are good, some are bad, the vast majority are middlin' to average. That is life... that is P.A's.  You get it all, unbiased and unpolished. I like that about the site, while it has lost a lot of its wild wild west tendencies it has in the early years, it is still a site where you can have your say. 
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 10:55
Because the quality of reviews can't hurt in terms of attracting more visitors.  I was introduced to the website, i.e, the database and not the forum.  And when a reader browses through the band's page on the website, what does he see but a bunch of reviews which might help him make a decision.  

It's a bit of a damned if you do and damned if you don't.  We have just discussed that PA's reviews don't have a great reputation in the outside prog world.  But then if that is moderated,  that won't go down too well either.  I can certainly agree though that it is NOT the most important issue concerning this website even if I may not consider it pointless.  And based on my experience at MA, I don't think cutting down the number of reviews for albums with plenty of them already would help give more visibility to reviews of obscure albums.  It doesn't really make much of a difference that way.  Just that the resources of the most valuable internet prog resource could probably be utilised in a better way.  
Back to Top
Queen By-Tor View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
Status: Offline
Points: 16111
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 13:56
Why change? We are what we are and I think we can all say that we love the site or else we wouldn't be here.

I've only been in and out of this thread (and others similar) but my 2 cents is this: We are a public site that allows everyone to have a voice - which could be anywhere from someone loving Torman Maxt to someone thinking that CTTE is a 1 star album.

Y'know what - I think that's great!

We all have different voices and we already have a system in place to make louder the voices that the site collectively wants to hear more of (the collaborator system). The bold red titles always made me want to read what that person had to say when I was a mere newb to the site.

I think the variety of opinion is what makes us what we are as a site and I wouldn't change it for the world. In fact, if we became as elitist as the others I might consider leaving. Prog is an acquired taste to be sure. We aren't here to critisize the new Miley Cyrus album or to try and make a couple of bucks off of 50 Cent, we're here because we love music and want to tell everyone else who is into the same kind of music so that they can broaden their own spectrum and maybe they can broaden ours.

I like that we have a "I really like your review!" page. We should keep the positive up and not worry about the negative. If people had given me a couple of "thumbs down" when I was a teenager and just starting on the site I probably would have fled in terror and not gotten to learn nearly as much as I know now about the music that I hold so close to my heart.

Shine on - all of you.


Edited by Queen By-Tor - January 25 2015 at 13:57
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46827
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 15:24
Originally posted by Queen By-Tor Queen By-Tor wrote:

Why change? We are what we are and I think we can all say that we love the site or else we wouldn't be here.

I've only been in and out of this thread (and others similar) but my 2 cents is this: We are a public site that allows everyone to have a voice - which could be anywhere from someone loving Torman Maxt to someone thinking that CTTE is a 1 star album.

Y'know what - I think that's great!

We all have different voices and we already have a system in place to make louder the voices that the site collectively wants to hear more of (the collaborator system). The bold red titles always made me want to read what that person had to say when I was a mere newb to the site.

I think the variety of opinion is what makes us what we are as a site and I wouldn't change it for the world. In fact, if we became as elitist as the others I might consider leaving. Prog is an acquired taste to be sure. We aren't here to critisize the new Miley Cyrus album or to try and make a couple of bucks off of 50 Cent, we're here because we love music and want to tell everyone else who is into the same kind of music so that they can broaden their own spectrum and maybe they can broaden ours.

I like that we have a "I really like your review!" page. We should keep the positive up and not worry about the negative. If people had given me a couple of "thumbs down" when I was a teenager and just starting on the site I probably would have fled in terror and not gotten to learn nearly as much as I know now about the music that I hold so close to my heart.

Shine on - all of you.


TORMAN MAXT???   Hell yeah!! LOLLOLClap  Thank god for the oldtimers to keep that sordid memory alive. Where is HT anyway. I haven't seen him around recently.  I'd love to know what he thinks of this idea. hah.

and let me say it....not only are you hotter than hell... you are wise beyond your years.  God I if wasn't taken I'd be all over you.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
Queen By-Tor View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
Status: Offline
Points: 16111
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 15:49
Embarrassed aww Micky,


Well... if Raff wasn't one of my biggest inspirations when I was a newb (and now too), as well as a voice of encouragement for me in my early collaboration days - and overall just a wonderful person to have around (even if it's just forums!) - I might try and steal you away Wink


Back to Top
Raff View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24391
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 15:57
Originally posted by Queen By-Tor Queen By-Tor wrote:

Embarrassed aww Micky,


Well... if Raff wasn't one of my biggest inspirations when I was a newb (and now too), as well as a voice of encouragement for me in my early collaboration days - and overall just a wonderful person to have around (even if it's just forums!) - I might try and steal you away Wink




LOLHeart



Back to Top
Sheavy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 28 2010
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 2854
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 16:26
Having a comment section in the review permalink page (like on jma or mma) would be much more useful and meaningful than a thumbs up/thumbs down button, though sending someone a pm or using the I like your review thread works well enough.
Back to Top
Raff View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24391
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 16:44
Originally posted by Sheavy Sheavy wrote:

Having a comment section in the review permalink page (like on jma or mma) would be much more useful and meaningful than a thumbs up/thumbs down button, though sending someone a pm or using the I like your review thread works well enough.


The comments section would have to be moderated, though, because we all know what happens on the Internet when people are able to leave comments... Letting trolls run amok would do a lot of damage.
Back to Top
Angelo View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13239
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2015 at 11:50
Censored myself here. I've seen it all. Bye.


Edited by Angelo - January 26 2015 at 11:51
ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2015 at 23:23
Cooee! This site besides Credited Prog Reviewers, really needs fanboy reviews (not rating manipulators, besides I don't think it's the fans that do this, I believe it's the record labels doing, some not all).
An website like this to survive needs new unique visitors daily/monthly, an active forum with the same members alone is not sufficient and won't survive unless new people are felt welcome here thus new fans should feel most welcome even if their reviews are not necessary great.
We need to keep the excitement about music going and let others come in so that they can share that with us, get more people to join and we in turn can open up a whole new world to them too by equally suggesting other amazing bands/ music.
Hugs Hug
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 64238
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2015 at 23:54
One possible comparison here would the relatively new "Thanks" button--  a perfectly fine idea at the time, but as the months have passed, we're left with some being 'Thanked' many times and some not at all.   This has, presumably, left many wonderful and helpful people 0 thanks and others with many multiple thanks.   It's a small thing but it adds up to many members wondering why their advice and forum contributions have gone unnoticed and unappreciated, all of which could've been avoided by not having such a stupid vanity feature.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
Raff View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24391
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 06:49
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

One possible comparison here would the relatively new "Thanks" button--  a perfectly fine idea at the time, but as the months have passed, we're left with some being 'Thanked' many times and some not at all.   This has, presumably, left many wonderful and helpful people 0 thanks and others with many multiple thanks.   It's a small thing but it adds up to many members wondering why their advice and forum contributions have gone unnoticed and unappreciated, all of which could've been avoided by not having such a stupid vanity feature.




Well saidClap. I haven't been thanked by anyone (not that I particularly care), and it took me a while to understand what those "points" under my avatar were about. This smacks a little bit too much of Facebook to me, which is not a good thing - seen as I deleted my account seven months ago, and have no intention whatsoever of opening a new one.
Back to Top
Walton Street View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 24 2014
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 872
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 07:11
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

One possible comparison here would the relatively new "Thanks" button--  a perfectly fine idea at the time, but as the months have passed, we're left with some being 'Thanked' many times and some not at all.   This has, presumably, left many wonderful and helpful people 0 thanks and others with many multiple thanks.   It's a small thing but it adds up to many members wondering why their advice and forum contributions have gone unnoticed and unappreciated, all of which could've been avoided by not having such a stupid vanity feature.




Well saidClap. I haven't been thanked by anyone (not that I particularly care), and it took me a while to understand what those "points" under my avatar were about. This smacks a little bit too much of Facebook to me, which is not a good thing - seen as I deleted my account seven months ago, and have no intention whatsoever of opening a new one.
 
Facebook was and is a great idea - perfect for promoting business, social awareness, and an affordable way to keep in contact with friends and family abroad. (among other great uses) 
Unfortunately once you add the human element it is ruined. Now it's polluted with vacuous self promotion. It's a platform for people who need constant validation and admiration, and millions of identical selfies displaying the trend of the day. All forms of social media - including forums - have a bit of this but it's run wildfire in Facebook.
 
Why people want to show the public how stupid they are is beyond me .
 
in the past there have always been sexist, racist, homophobic trolls but they had no one to share their insanity with - the general public wouldn't stand for their crap. But now with social media these once isolated village idiots can now find each other, support each other, and feel that their twisted thoughts are valid.
 
Facebook has become a dumping ground for every unattractive behaviour you can imagine. Pettiness, bragging, oneupmanship, bickering, negativity. whining...blah blah blah.
 
and there's no control over it because you don't just invite friends to your page, you invite their friends, etc ...  The alternative is to hide everyone's feed, then what's the point.
 
obviously people act this way online as an antisocial outlet, anonymously, because if they said a tiny fraction of this garbage in the real world, they'd be ignored or beaten to a pulp.
 
 
 
 
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

- SpongeBob Socrates
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46827
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 07:28
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

One possible comparison here would the relatively new "Thanks" button--  a perfectly fine idea at the time, but as the months have passed, we're left with some being 'Thanked' many times and some not at all.   This has, presumably, left many wonderful and helpful people 0 thanks and others with many multiple thanks.   It's a small thing but it adds up to many members wondering why their advice and forum contributions have gone unnoticed and unappreciated, all of which could've been avoided by not having such a stupid vanity feature.




hahahha..   nice! Yeah, I don't think I've been thanked once either, then again I really can't say either way. I've never thought to check once I found out you couldn't like your own posts LOL

It seems to me to be a relatively harmless feature..
stupid? perhaps..
vanity? oh no doubt

but one not likely to discourage people from participating. Now a possible comparison to the notion being discussed here would be giving the forumites the ability to give thumbs down to posts. A forum f**k You button if you will.  Don't think for a SECOND that feature would go ignored and unused like the thanks has. LOL  The negative sides of human nature can't be forgotten.  It is easier.. always has been, to say something negative than it has something positive.  Easy to destroy or criticize than to create or praise.  Hell, it is often more fun I'll admit haha.  The forum would never be stupid enough to give the forum the ability to rate negatively people's posts, only a few select nut-jobs like me would enjoy it and strive to get as many as we could, everyone else? Well we know how that would turn out.  Same notions as singling out people's reviews and either by thumbs down or the even more insipid idea of allowing direct posted comments ON them.  Bad ideas all the way around man.


The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
Raff View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24391
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 07:30
ExactlyThumbs Up. When I realized I was hiding way too many feeds, and my Blocked list was growing exponentially - not to mention the fact that scrolling down my feed had become more of a chore than anything resembling a pleasure - I knew it was time to pull the plug. I'd hate to see PA go the same way.

P.S. I was replying to Walton Street's excellent post.


Edited by Raff - January 27 2015 at 07:31
Back to Top
Walton Street View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 24 2014
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 872
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 07:38
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

The forum would never be stupid enough to give the forum the ability to rate negatively people's posts, only a few select nut-jobs like me would enjoy it and strive to get as many as we could, everyone else?

 
nah not me..
 
I've had my fill of negativity in the real world .. I go online to relax and find like minded people and enjoy some chat.
Occasionally i'll get pulled into a discussion that turns into an argument but i'll walk away before it gets stupid.
Nothing is that important to me online ..
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

- SpongeBob Socrates
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46827
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 07:42
Originally posted by Walton Street Walton Street wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

The forum would never be stupid enough to give the forum the ability to rate negatively people's posts, only a few select nut-jobs like me would enjoy it and strive to get as many as we could, everyone else?

 
nah not me..
 
I've had my fill of negativity in the real world .. I go online to relax and find like minded people and enjoy some chat.
Occasionally i'll get pulled into a discussion that turns into an argument but i'll walk away before it gets stupid.
Nothing is that important to me online ..






The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.121 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.