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Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2014 at 13:29
There seems to be two rivalling popular definitions of progressive rock I've encountered.

  1. The first refers to a general willingness to think outside the box musically, or perhaps the specific culture of the 1960s/1970s prog-rock scene and newer heirs to that tradition, making "prog" an ethos more than a genre.
  2. The second defines progressive rock as about constructing lengthy complex compositions using techniques and structures derived from classical music in the context of rock instrumentation.

I wager the site admins subscribe to the first, since music groups without much in the way of classical influence have found their way to its database. The second one would exclude most of the "Krautrock" groups except the more overtly symphonic, a lot of jazz fusion, more or less all post-rock, all but a handful Pink Floyd songs scattered across the band's entire discography et cetera.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2014 at 13:34
Prog is what I get when I mate a Panda with a Frog.
My other avatar is a Porsche

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2014 at 14:13
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

There seems to be two rivalling popular definitions of progressive rock I've encountered.

  1. The first refers to a general willingness to think outside the box musically, or perhaps the specific culture of the 1960s/1970s prog-rock scene and newer heirs to that tradition, making "prog" an ethos more than a genre.
  2. The second defines progressive rock as about constructing lengthy complex compositions using techniques and structures derived from classical music in the context of rock instrumentation.

I wager the site admins subscribe to the first, since music groups without much in the way of classical influence have found their way to its database. The second one would exclude most of the "Krautrock" groups except the more overtly symphonic, a lot of jazz fusion, more or less all post-rock, all but a handful Pink Floyd songs scattered across the band's entire discography et cetera.

Both those definitions can be applied to many bands ie

The Nice
ELP
Genesis
King Crimson
Yes
PFM
and there are tons more

in fact most of the bands that were called 'progressive rock' before everyone became progressive rock ( or so it now seems)

BUT if you are strictly adhering to the compositions being lengthy then that excludes Gentle Giant I presume so I would leave out 'lengthy'.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2014 at 14:44
They do have the complexity and classical influence though, which seems to be the important part of the stricter definitions for progressive rock I have seen.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 02:39
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Prog is what I get when I mate a Panda with a Frog.


I guess many Prog fans are shy with women and green with envy....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 06:48
Originally posted by Mirror Image Mirror Image wrote:

A progressive rock band is one that can look past barriers and push the envelope stylistically IMHO.



Could you possibly come up with anything more vague?


Which barriers? What style? What would satisfy the criteria for "pushing the envelope"?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 06:52


Sorry Tony, but I just realised that your post count registers as a phone number on my screen
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 07:01
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:



Sorry Tony, but I just realised that your post count registers as a phone number on my screen


It is my phone number.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 07:06
:-P
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 07:14
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen?

About OP's post, I personally think that it is most interesting to try build Your personal world view based to concepts fitting Your own mind, the consensus of these with majority being peripheral on certain areas of life, f.ex. how to define some music. If one does not build self-image on values relying too tightly to certain movements, I think it is easier to be open for new people, ideas and be more independent than stuck to mass movements gathering people together. With short life experience, I think people often have different understandings on terms defining unvague concepts like "prog" or "work", making discussions yearn patience and realization the answer won't be found mutually. It could be found personally, but still the search for the answer is more important and giving than the utopia of final discovery.

I quess tight definitions are needed to human psyche for building a comphendable perspection to life, but realized it being a trap, and got cured from it. (Where am I BTW? help! )
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 07:40
My very simple definition:

Progressive rock = art rock (artistic rock)

Progression means from plain craft to form of art.

So every artistic music could be called progressive music (prog rock, classical music, modern jazz, prog folk, progressive electronica ...)

Some further explanation:

Art = creative expression with aesthetic value ...

Art: something that is created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings. (Merriam Webster Dictionary)

"That which is static and repetitive is boring. That which is dynamic and random is confusing. In between lies art."
John A. Locke (1632-1704), English philosopher.

Rock: popular music usually played on electronically amplified instruments and characterized by a persistent heavily accented beat, repetition of simple phrases [riffs], and often country, folk, and blues elements.
(Merriam Webster Dictionary)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 08:16
Originally posted by terramystic terramystic wrote:

My very simple definition:

Progressive rock = art rock (artistic rock)

Progression means from plain craft to form of art.

So every artistic music could be called progressive music (prog rock, classical music, modern jazz, prog folk, progressive electronica ...)

Some further explanation:

Art = creative expression with aesthetic value ...

Art: something that is created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings. (Merriam Webster Dictionary)

"That which is static and repetitive is boring. That which is dynamic and random is confusing. In between lies art."
John A. Locke (1632-1704), English philosopher.

Rock: popular music usually played on electronically amplified instruments and characterized by a persistent heavily accented beat, repetition of simple phrases [riffs], and often country, folk, and blues elements.
(Merriam Webster Dictionary)


Nothing wrong with quoting third party definitions but given that the name of this thread is 'A Personal definition of Prog' ain't this tantamount to an admission you have precisely zero opinions of your own?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 08:25
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:



Sorry Tony, but I just realised that your post count registers as a phone number on my screen


It is my phone number.


Are you sure?  I just called it and got a guy named "Stavros".  He's not your receptionist, is he?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 08:29
Just goes to show how many hours you can use on PA and talk about everything from prog rock to fruit, shaving and hip hop.
Tony gets it:-)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 09:29
It's very true what you say. This solely depends on the existence of people like us. People who experienced Progressive Rock in the 70's. Rules were firm like laws to follow by the musicians in that time. People often wonder how and why that would be? The most pathetic sounding requests were often rules laid down for musicians...by band leaders. Robert Fripp and Tony Banks for example, ...can you vision either one of these guys allowing commercial writing styles to exist on King Crimson and Genesis albums in the early 70's? If one particular musician in Genesis or K.C. decided to inject a "Hard Rock" riff or sound to the music.....do you do not think that ideas crossing into other styles would have been immediately rejected by these controlling band leaders? Of course they would! People seeeem to take that offensively today. Was it harsh? Did some musicians feel offended by that act? Did Greg Lake feel Tarkus was over the top? The answer is yes. He was more of a rocker than Emerson and Palmer and certain rules laid down by the main composer were harsh, but for good reason. It's not possible for a majority of people to buy into that today because they feel it is unjust to other styles of music. In the days of early Progressive Rock, the focus was on what precisely to dismiss as much as what specifically to include. Some musicians didn't find the subject illuminating and acted as if their allowance had been taken away. Nick Magnus had issues with The Enid and part of that pressure having to do with joining forces with a band that rehearsed 12 to sometimes 15 hrs. a day. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2014 at 21:27
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Prog is what I get when I mate a Panda with a Frog.

I guess many Prog fans are shy with women and green with envy....


That's some retarded fish baby.
Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 10:09
You know, definitions of progressive rock which try to capture the sense of newness and innovation seem to lose clarity.

The genre that was born in the late 60's - early 70's, which joined jazz freedom to classical composition and precision and rock energy, which benefitted from the advent of the synthesizer and interesting new studio techniques, which explored new spiritual and philosophical horizons of lyrical subject matter -

That's what we call progressive rock.

And you know what? In the big picture, it's still more interesting and innovative than a lot of what we call cutting-edge today.
sad creature nailed upon the coloured door of time
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 10:37
Originally posted by freyacat freyacat wrote:

And you know what? In the big picture, it's still more interesting and innovative than a lot of what we call cutting-edge today.

Hear, hear!
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 11:16
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

There seems to be two rivalling popular definitions of progressive rock I've encountered.

  1. The first refers to a general willingness to think outside the box musically, or perhaps the specific culture of the 1960s/1970s prog-rock scene and newer heirs to that tradition, making "prog" an ethos more than a genre.
  2. The second defines progressive rock as about constructing lengthy complex compositions using techniques and structures derived from classical music in the context of rock instrumentation.

I wager the site admins subscribe to the first, since music groups without much in the way of classical influence have found their way to its database. The second one would exclude most of the "Krautrock" groups except the more overtly symphonic, a lot of jazz fusion, more or less all post-rock, all but a handful Pink Floyd songs scattered across the band's entire discography et cetera.


I have to reluctantly agree with this demarcation. I say reluctantly because the ramifications of option 2 would be completely unpalatable to most of the PA members I've been arguing with to this effect for several years. Even current  site admin Guldbamsen has ventured that Krautrock ain't really Prog.


Edited by ExittheLemming - May 23 2014 at 12:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 11:52

The frustrating, never ending search for a myriad of sounds, chord/note progressions, strange, oddly timed, regularly timed, over and under the top, harmonic, noisy, smooth, deep, light, dark, new, old, and slightly hook driven musical compositions with multiple or few instruments that at various stages reaches crescendos that raises the hair on my arms with goose bumps of sheer delight.   The search continues…..

 

It said a personal definition Smile
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