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SteveG 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20497 |
 Posted: November 02 2014 at 12:32 |
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^Unfortunately micky, DT falls under Progressive Metal, and that changes the rules.
Edited by SteveG - November 02 2014 at 12:33 |
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 17 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6673 |
Posted: November 02 2014 at 13:00 |
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I have no DT at all.
 I know, its a bad state of affairs but I just can't get into it. 
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20497 |
Posted: November 02 2014 at 13:03 |
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^No problem. There's plenty of other stuff to go around like Midge Ure's Fragile.
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 17 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6673 |
Posted: November 02 2014 at 13:12 |
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Aw, you are slick AND kind!
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20497 |
Posted: November 02 2014 at 13:15 |
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^No problem. I think I'll play that album next, btw.
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 17 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6673 |
Posted: November 02 2014 at 13:22 |
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Its a modern masterpiece and very symphonic IMHO!
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20497 |
Posted: November 02 2014 at 13:27 |
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Yup. 4 stars!
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: November 02 2014 at 13:55 |
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what rules Steve?  Just what IS really prog about DT? Long songs?, uber w**ker virtuoso musicians?, half ass atttempts to do serious concept albums? It sure wasn't pushing the boundries, those had been pushed years earlier. Sure it is prog but very very little is progressive about it. Not innovative, it isn't like prog metal was the redesign of the wheel. Metal is not THAT different from rock itself. It wasn't some unholy concontion whose merging was out of left field. DT put some of the more base aspects of prog into metal music and definitely weren't the first. They were quite influential, especially for 14 year old kids who think showing off on instruments is cool.. err.. prog but they were one of several groups doing prog metal there at the beginning were they not. You can't lay the whole basis or popularization of it upon them. Can you? Queensryche were a more melodic and tastefully done version of prog metal (as was Iron Maiden IMO) but predated them and were far more successful in getting to listeners than DT ever were. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24391 |
Posted: November 02 2014 at 14:19 |
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Personally, I think DT were in the right place at the right time (the early Nineties) rather than being true innovators. Their breakthrough album, Images and Words, sounds a lot like an expanded version of what Rush were doing in the Seventies with the likes of 2112, A Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres - with a few Metallica-ish riffs thrown in for good measure, and far worse songwriting. In my opinion, Iron Maiden were muc more successful in blending metal with prog influences, especially from their third album onwards, with songs like "To Tame a Land" or "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner".
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13239 |
Posted: November 02 2014 at 14:46 |
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Dream Theater never made it a secret that Rush was a big influence. Apart from that, combining things that already exist in a new way can be innovative as well. I'm not going to judge here to what extent they did that, but they sure were more than just copy cats. I say 'were', because I can only really judge the first 4 albums. I have the next three as well, but I lost interested in everything metal related around 1996, and never really caught up with what happened in that scene afterwards. Heck, only last week did I listen seriously to Pain Of Salvation for the first time.
Of course, Raff is right in saying they were probably there at the right place and time - I know quite a few Rush fans who were happy to here When Dream And Day Unite, after 10 years of Rush on keyboard-patrol.
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: March 21 2008 Location: Tigerstaden Status: Offline Points: 34050 |
Posted: November 02 2014 at 16:25 |
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Opeth were influenced by DT to change from more death metal progressiev metal to a more progressive death metal band becouse of Mikael Åkerfeld heard Scenes from a Memory or saw them live in gothenburg, i don't remember 100% clearly
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20497 |
Posted: November 03 2014 at 12:32 |
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My question asked if they were copiers and compilers of other genre's motifs or if they actually had something original of their own to offer. That's all. If you read more into that, than you've missed the point. Edited by SteveG - November 03 2014 at 16:16 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
Posted: November 06 2014 at 19:15 |
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And that makes them special, regardless. It takes courage and dedication to their work to do what they did amidst the "wrong audience" and come out on top of it. Not to mention that they also used the Internet very well, and worked the streets to get their following.
The tougher part, for us to get, is that a person has to be intelligent enough to "KNOW" when is the right place and the right time ... it helps if you spend more time being involved in the arts, and have a much better idea that there is music out there that is much more than just a 4/4 and only has one design that is called rock'n'roll, and the average audience can't even hear anything different than that because it is so different and tough on their ears!
Trust me, in the early days, the folks in radio thought that ELP, KC, Genesis and many others were crap too, until they got their ears cleaned up from their top ten sukkkage! The DJ in Madison played the hit song but got his dig in ... the rest of the album was loud noise! At least bands like ELP got their worth ... whereas idiot dj's got their cucumbers! Edited by moshkito - November 09 2014 at 14:30 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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'PiphanyRambler
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2014 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 120 |
Posted: November 16 2014 at 15:36 |
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If DT had done something original, that would be on Images and Words, and partly on Awake. After those albums I find them either trying to repeat themselves, or taking "inspiration" from other bands (borderline plagiarism in a few occasions).
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
Posted: November 18 2014 at 11:45 |
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I don't know that I would consider calling anything "plagiarism" in this day and age. The media is so spread out, and has made it impossible to miss just about any piece of music out there, and the comparisons are likely to take place. But it is scary ... pretty soon, everyone will say that Tchaikovsky sounds like Stravinsky and that Stravinsky sounds like the Beatles ... and you're gonna go ... what?????? But to a degree, there is too much "rock'n'roll" and almost all of it sounds the same, and to me, this is just like another guitarist saying that he is playing the blues ... yet again, is just another form of plagiarism ... it's the same notes! But to a degree there is too much "repetition" of the same thing and process, and this could use a nice upgrade, but it is not as too many bands are more into the commerical sound and sales, than they are the creativity behind it. Some say that you have to eat and what not, but in the end, it's the same thing ... and like saying that no one else had to do it as well! Is it the same? Not always, but I know that if that guitarist was playing a violin, or a flute or anything but an electric guitar, we would be calling him a maestro. And that lack of appreciation is a lot more criminal than the plagiarism. |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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'PiphanyRambler
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2014 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 120 |
Posted: November 18 2014 at 12:48 |
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Well, I think it depends on how many guitar players, violin players, or anything, a person has ever heard. People are fascinated by the things they don't know, and since the guitar is a pretty common instrument, it is more likely for people to criticize a guitarist instead of another instrumentist. Nonetheless, I agree with what you've said. |
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Panucleus
Forum Newbie 
Joined: November 30 2014 Location: Athens, Greece Status: Offline Points: 2 |
Posted: November 30 2014 at 16:21 |
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I'm not a fan of DT, their discography has weak spots, and they do have their pet cliches.... but there are some things that I have to admit.
I bought Images and Words when it was released and although I could recognize influences in their music, there wasn't any other band (to my knowledge at least) at the time that sounded like them or played their brand of 'sophisticated' metal. And their stylings became something of a blueprint for many bands that I have heard since then...in rock music, this is enough to qualify as innovation, except if you define innovation as the spontaneous appearance of novelty out of nowhere. Images + Words is still enjoyable to this day, as are bits and pieces here and there. However, I don't find much interest in the majority of their discography... but this is just me... |
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cloudstr
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 08 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7 |
Posted: January 17 2015 at 08:13 |
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They are bad copies of Rush, and Rush absolutely sucks anyway...
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Gaillion1
Forum Groupie 
Joined: January 17 2015 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 45 |
Posted: January 18 2015 at 15:51 |
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As an artisit it is a delicate balancing act between being "original" and emulating those that inspire you. Prog rock has unequivicollay the most loyal fan base in the rock genere (perhaps equaled by jam band rock) but it is almost impossible to not show flashes of who inspired you at some point in the creativity process.
Dream Theater is both Innovator and Imitator as are almost all Prog Rock bands since the initial wave of the genre is some regards. Great thread by the way!
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Argonaught
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 04 2012 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
Posted: January 18 2015 at 17:37 |
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Dream Theater: Prog innovators or merely imitators
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SteveG wrote: