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Joined: April 11 2014
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Topic: Spirit sues Zeppelin after 40 years! Posted: June 13 2014 at 16:42
Attorneys for Proto proggers Spirit are suing Led Zeppelin for lifting the opening arpeggio to Stairway To Heaven from a track titled Taurus from Spirit's 1968 self titled debut album. If you have the album, post if you think it's a Yea or a Nay.
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Posted: June 13 2014 at 17:07
Zeppelin were known plagiarists. Pretty soon, Bob Mosley from Moby Grape will sue for their version of Never, which of couse is Since I've Been Loving You......
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Posted: June 13 2014 at 18:15
... 40 years ...
Also:
SteveG wrote:
Attorneys for Proto proggers Spirit are suing Led Zeppelin for lifting the opening arpeggio to Stairway To Heaven from a track from Spirit's 1970 album The Twelve Dreams Of Dr. Sardonicus titled Taurus. If you have the album, post if you think its a Yea or a Nay.
It's on their debut, not Twelve Dreams.
Tom Ozric wrote:
Zeppelin were known plagiarists. Pretty soon, Bob Mosley from Moby Grape will sue for their version of Never, which of couse is Since I've Been Loving You......
... and The Surviving Beatles will sue Roxy Music for letting George Graham Simpson copy the Day Tripper riff on "Re-Make/Re-Model".
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Posted: June 13 2014 at 18:40
It was actually all started by the music publishing equivalent of an ambulance chasing attorney. He saw an untapped opportunity (thanks to internet discussion) and called up Mark Andes. Randy California, the author of Taurus (deceased), years ago reportedly expressed his hope that Page would at least acknowledge the lift (and it's just a little bit of a lift, let's be honest), but he was never after any royalties or damages, nor held any ill will. I think all they seek is a cowriting credit of some sort, not back royalties. I don't think anyone would have even thought about it were it not for that opportunistic lawyer, and I doubt Andes really wanted this to be a news item. Probably just some legal papers going back and forth, not worthy of a lot of fuss.
Edited by HolyMoly - June 13 2014 at 18:41
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Posted: June 13 2014 at 20:32
If everyone who was touring together, or hanging out & recording at the Epic or Atlantic studios, did not lift from each other I'd be surprised. Stephen Stills should sue Page for pilfering 'Carry On' from Déjà vu and turning it into 'Friends'. The Hendrix Estate should sue Page for poaching 'Little Miss Lover' and transforming it into 'Immigrant Song'. I
mean they were all together, constantly hearing each other's music and
trading this or stealing that. Same with Tull.
Sure
Zeppelin were thieves but as they say in politics, they "stole it fair
& square". And don't tell me LZ themselves were not
stolen from-- they were just the single most influential rock
band in history.
- EDITED
Edited by Atavachron - June 14 2014 at 02:54
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Posted: June 13 2014 at 22:35
Atavachron wrote:
If everyone who was touring together, or hanging out & recording at the Epic or Atlantic studios, did not lift from each other I'd be surprised. Stephen Stills should sue Page for pilfering 'Carry On' from Déjà vu and turning it into 'Friends'. The Hendrix Estate should sue Page for poaching 'Dolly Dagger' and transforming it into 'Immigrant Song'. I mean they were all together, constantly hearing each other's music and trading this or stealing that. Same with Tull.
Sure Zeppelin were thieves but as they say in politics, they "stole it fair & square". And don't tell me LZ themselves were not stolen from-- they were just the single most influential rock band in history.
You are spot on...everyone back then was 'stealing' riffs from each other. It's amazing there weren't more lawsuits in those days, but it's rather lame they waited 40 years to bother with this.
I actually play 12 Dreams (one of my all time favorite proto prog albums..)more than any Zep albums these days.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Posted: June 14 2014 at 02:43
Atavachron wrote:
If everyone who was touring together, or hanging out & recording at the Epic or Atlantic studios,did not lift from each other I'd be surprised. Stephen Stills should sue Page for pilfering 'Carry On' from Déjà vu and turning it into 'Friends'. The Hendrix Estate should sue Page for poaching 'Dolly Dagger' and transforming it into 'Immigrant Song'. I mean they were all together, constantly hearing each other's music and trading this or stealing that. Same with Tull.
Sure Zeppelin were thieves but as they say in politics, they "stole it fair & square". And don't tell me LZ themselves were not stolen from-- they were just the single most influential rock band in history.
1. I think "Carry On" was based on the main riff to "Cat's Squirrel". So Zepp ripped off Stills who ripped off a traditional number.
2. I don't think "Dolly Dagger" sounds like "Immigrant Song". If "IS" took anything, is that the cry Robert Plant did sounds like the opening notes to the Get Smart theme.
3. There's a difference be a homage and a ripoff. For example, take this piece:
Here's an instance of what might some could consider a ripoff:
And here's where it's used as homage:
I love that song. Oh, where was I? Oh, right.
Of course, it's a tame example, since the source was based on a traditional melody where the identity of the writer has been lost to the sands of time, but you get the idea. (For a more blatant example, compare Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" with Zepp's "Lemon Song".)
Back on topic, I think I heard about Mr. California's reaction to "Stairway". The guy seemed to be a good sport about the whole thing about only wanting Page to give him a nod.
If any good came from this, is that the whole affair was a nice bit of musical education; plus it lead me to be a fan of Spirit's material.
Edited by KingCrInuYasha - June 14 2014 at 02:47
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Posted: June 14 2014 at 02:53
KingCrInuYasha wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
If everyone who was touring together, or hanging out & recording at the Epic or Atlantic studios,did not lift from each other I'd be surprised. Stephen Stills should sue Page for pilfering 'Carry On' from Déjà vu and turning it into 'Friends'. The Hendrix Estate should sue Page for poaching 'Dolly Dagger' and transforming it into 'Immigrant Song'. I mean they were all together, constantly hearing each other's music and trading this or stealing that. Same with Tull.
Sure Zeppelin were thieves but as they say in politics, they "stole it fair & square". And don't tell me LZ themselves were not stolen from-- they were just the single most influential rock band in history.
1. I think "Carry On" was based on the main riff to "Cat's Squirrel". So Zepp ripped off Stills who ripped off a traditional number. - Good enough, but that kinda makes my point.
2. I don't think "Dolly Dagger" sounds like "Immigrant Song". If "IS" took anything, is that the cry Robert Plant did sounds like the opening note to the Get Smart theme. - That's hilarious, never noticed, good catch: and of course absurd. I meant 'Little Miss Lover', not 'Dolly Dagger'; my mistake. But you do make some fair points.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Posted: June 14 2014 at 07:46
in cases like these, i say "Who gives a f**k?" cause i don't and they went through this stuff for a long time so its nothing new. and by the way, i think its just similarity, not plagiarism (imho).
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Posted: June 14 2014 at 08:41
Tom Ozric wrote:
Zeppelin were known plagiarists. Pretty soon, Bob Mosley from Moby Grape will sue for their version of Never, which of couse is Since I've Been Loving You......
I agree that Page had a reputation for borrowing other artists musical notes and not giving them back. Listen to Bert Jansch's (God bless him) trad. instrumental arrangement of the the old English folk song Blackwaterside from his 1966 album Jack Orion and Page's trad. instrumental arrangement of the same song retitled Black Mountain Side on Zep's 1969 debut album. Uncanny.
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Posted: June 14 2014 at 08:45
aapatsos wrote:
Read about this a few days ago and agree there is a lot of similarity in the tune of "Taurus".But really... get a life BTW Taurus is from the debut album
Good catch! I changed my post to reflect the true facts. I get all my music news here in the States from the authority on all things Prog: The Colbert Report. But The Twelve Dreams Of Dr. Sardonicus has to be the best title ever for a psychedelic album.
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Spirit sues Zeppelin after 40 years!
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SteveG wrote:
Oh, where was I? Oh, right.
