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Points: 13358 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2014 at 03:28
Why don't we delete all the subgenres at all? It would be nivce seeing us ZART and neo-proggers discussing about the inclusions
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2014 at 04:05
Originally posted by King Crimson776 King Crimson776 wrote:

(...)

I do think 'Spanish Prog' is a valid category though. https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Andalusian%20Rock/
I agree. Imo, ´Rock Progressiva Espagnol´sounds nice as a sub-genre.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2014 at 05:36
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by King Crimson776 King Crimson776 wrote:

(...)

I do think 'Spanish Prog' is a valid category though. https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Andalusian%20Rock/
I agree. Imo, ´Rock Progressiva Espagnol´sounds nice as a sub-genre.
Erm... no. If it had a name it would be, as the RYM link states, Prog Andaluz and specific to a unique style of Progressive Rock music that featured music unique to the Andalusia region of Spain just as Canterbury is regional and specific to unique form of Progressive Rock that was came from that specific town in Kent at a specific time in history. Like Canterbury, (and Zeuhl and RIO) the number of bands that could be considered Prog Andaluz would be very small and very select - not every Spanish Prog Rock band has the necessary characteristics that describe the style of music that some people call Prog Andaluz - that is, it should contain (as the RYM category states) influences of flamenco folk music unique to the Andalusia region of Spain (e.g. cante, toque  and palmas).

Spanish Prog or Rock Progresivo Español (if you want it in Spanish) would not describe a unique style of Progressive Rock music and therefore could not be called a subgenre, it would merely be a non-descriptive geographical category used to categorise Progressive Rock from Spain.

Remember, not every Progressive Rock band from Italy is Rock Progressivo Italiano.
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Points: 7750 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2014 at 11:53
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Although I agree that Prog from all over the world has
its own unique indigenous flavour, sub dividing further would merely
play into the hands of that stereotyping of Prog fans which casts us as
never happier than when cataloging our own faeces. Ralph Waldo Emerson
perhaps put it best:A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds



Love it. Perfectly said to my ears. Damn Hobgoblins!!!
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Points: 1551 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2014 at 12:16
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by King Crimson776 King Crimson776 wrote:

(...)

I do think 'Spanish Prog' is a valid category though. https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Andalusian%20Rock/
I agree. Imo, ´Rock Progressiva Espagnol´sounds nice as a sub-genre.
Erm... no. If it had a name it would be, as the RYM link states, Prog Andaluz and specific to a unique style of Progressive Rock music that featured music unique to the Andalusia region of Spain just as Canterbury is regional and specific to unique form of Progressive Rock that was came from that specific town in Kent at a specific time in history. Like Canterbury, (and Zeuhl and RIO) the number of bands that could be considered Prog Andaluz would be very small and very select - not every Spanish Prog Rock band has the necessary characteristics that describe the style of music that some people call Prog Andaluz - that is, it should contain (as the RYM category states) influences of flamenco folk music unique to the Andalusia region of Spain (e.g. cante, toque  and palmas).

Spanish Prog or Rock Progresivo Español (if you want it in Spanish) would not describe a unique style of Progressive Rock music and therefore could not be called a subgenre, it would merely be a non-descriptive geographical category used to categorise Progressive Rock from Spain.

Remember, not every Progressive Rock band from Italy is Rock Progressivo Italiano.
sorry to say, but as of now the RPI genre in PA contains unrelated styles and bands that have nothing in common, both modern and old, except for the Italian vocals.Area and Le Orme have nothing in common soundwise.Even worse, Acqua Fragile are listed there, even if the sound like Genesis and sing in English, or Crystals, which sounded like a Led Zeppelin cover band.There are maybe a few bands also that sing in English and still are listed there, which I cant remember, So, at some point, this seems like a geographical genre and based on this anyone could suggest a ''geographical'' genre, I can't blame people for doing this, even more if the so-called Andalusian Prog/Rock for example has its own distinctive style.

As I recall from my early entries here, RPI was basically Italian Symphonic Prog and symphonic-oriented bands, which limited pretty well the additions and was a better way to deal with the Italian bands and PA genres, IMHO.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2014 at 12:50
No surprises there. Still the fact remains - not every Progressive Rock band from Italy is Rock Progressivo Italiano.
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Points: 20468 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2014 at 16:50
Dean,
Where are all these 8,676 sub genres....? I'm obviously missing something.
 
Confused


Edited by dr wu23 - June 18 2014 at 16:51
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2014 at 17:02
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Dean,
Where are all these 8,676 sub genres....? I'm obviously missing something.
 
Confused
It's 8,678 now, two more artists have been added to the archive since yesterday.


...is that clue enough?
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Points: 20468 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2014 at 17:33
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Dean,
Where are all these 8,676 sub genres....? I'm obviously missing something.
 
Confused
It's 8,678 now, two more artists have been added to the archive since yesterday.


...is that clue enough?
LOL
 
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Points: 29625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2014 at 03:54
Originally posted by apps79 apps79 wrote:


sorry to say, but as of now the RPI genre in PA contains unrelated styles and bands that have nothing in common,
The whole thing about subgenres is that some artists don't fit neatly into one box in the first place.  Adding more won't fix that problem.  Also, you'll find some artists that making stuff that is similar show up in different subgenres.

For anyone who hasn't visited jazzmusicarchives (an offshoot of this site).  I recommend checking out their system.  Also I find their approach at not being so hard line about what artists are added refreshing. Big smile
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 64352 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2014 at 04:05
^ Well, it is jazz
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2014 at 04:09
quite Stern Smile
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Points: 389 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2014 at 06:20
plus they have a half star rating system!! i think ill change my musical preference Wink
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2014 at 07:52
^ There's a few things that both JMA and (I think) MMA have which people have said they'd like to see on PA e.g. album tagging and half stars, However these are facilitated by the software and the wishes of the site owner and as far as I know, the database of PA would not be compatible for something like multi tagging irrespective of whether Max wished it implemented or not. I'm also not so sure multi tagging is the much trumpeted answer to all our prayers i.e. Reductio ad absurdum -  it's not inconceivable that if opinion amongst the collaborators was sufficiently diverse, any given album could appear tagged to every available sub genre definition we have at our disposal (which completely undermines the purpose of definitions) Say what you like about the current systems for ratings and 'best fit' for a given sub genre, they force us to choose, and I reckon that's preferable to being able to view fog at higher resolutions
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2014 at 13:36
"preferable to being able to view fog at higher resolutions"
LOL
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Points: 16148 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2014 at 14:02
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

While my gut response is HELL NO, since I'm on my lunch break I'll break the question down into smaller pieces and analyze it to death for no good reason other than I want to practice my writing skills.

There are a couple of different possible questions embedded in the question of whether to increase the number of subgenres recognized on PA.    As it is, there is an invisible (yet distinct) boundary around a certain subset of all the music out there, and within that boundary are bands that fit PA's inclusion criteria ("it's gotta be prog, and not everything that's progressive is necessarily prog" is a common mantra around here).  So, by adding new subgenres, would we

a) further subdivide the "prog" that is already eligible for inclusion, without expanding the criteria per se, or
b) would we broaden the scope of the site by allowing bands that would not have made it under the old system?

If a), the advantages would be

1. finer levels of descriptive detail in the categorization of any given band
2. several people would find it interesting
3. More fuel for heated disagreements and venomous attacks

and the disadvantages would be

1. More work
2. Even more work
3. More fuel for heated disagreements and venomous attacks

if b) the advantages would be

1. The chance to move the contents of our database asymptotically closer to the full and complete meaning of the word "progressive"
2. A sure-fire draw to all those Indo-Neo-Post-Kraut-Symphonic Banjo fans who had avoided our site until now.
3. More slots open for the coveted "Collaborator" title

and the disadvantages would be

1. No sleep til Brooklyn
2. Upon achieving perfection, there would be nothing left to argue about and the forum would die
3. I swear I was serious when I started this post, but I've lost my train of thought and gotten goofy all of a sudden

In conclusion, I need a vacation.


Very nice post SteveClap
The goofy ending is much appreciated too, but you know me - that's how I like it.
...
 
You mad dog ... that is quite excellent and a beautiful read! Enjoyed it tremendously, up to and including some translations!
 
Clap
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Points: 64352 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2014 at 20:14
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

2. Upon achieving perfection, there would be nothing left to argue about and the forum would die

That's yer big boy right there
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2014 at 20:18
Big enough to blow bubbles and vote.
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Points: 14720 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2014 at 20:43
i say every artist should get their own subgenre just as every human alive should get their own pronoun Clown
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Points: 7750 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2014 at 22:29
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:


Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:


While my gut response is HELL NO, since I'm on my lunch break I'll break
the question down into smaller pieces and analyze it to death for no
good reason other than I want to practice my writing skills.

There are a couple of different possible questions embedded in the
question of whether to increase the number of subgenres recognized on
PA.    As it is, there is an invisible (yet distinct) boundary around a
certain subset of all the music out there, and within that boundary are
bands that fit PA's inclusion criteria ("it's gotta be prog, and not
everything that's progressive is necessarily prog" is a common mantra
around here).  So, by adding new subgenres, would we

a) further subdivide the "prog" that is already eligible for inclusion, without expanding the criteria per se, or
b) would we broaden the scope of the site by allowing bands that would not have made it under the old system?

If a), the advantages would be

1. finer levels of descriptive detail in the categorization of any given band
2. several people would find it interesting
3. More fuel for heated disagreements and venomous attacks

and the disadvantages would be

1. More work
2. Even more work
3. More fuel for heated disagreements and venomous attacks

if b) the advantages would be

1. The chance to move the contents of our database asymptotically closer
to the full and complete meaning of the word "progressive"
2. A sure-fire draw to all those Indo-Neo-Post-Kraut-Symphonic Banjo fans who had avoided our site until now.
3. More slots open for the coveted "Collaborator" title

and the disadvantages would be

1. No sleep til Brooklyn
2. Upon achieving perfection, there would be nothing left to argue about and the forum would die
3. I swear I was serious when I started this post, but I've lost my train of thought and gotten goofy all of a sudden

In conclusion, I need a vacation.



Very nice post SteveClap
The goofy ending is much appreciated too, but you know me - that's how I like it.
As for my own thoughts on this matter: I'll just say hell no. 
Sure it'd be nice of we could tag artists with different subs. Maybe even individual album tagging. No sense in trying to persuade people about A Passion Play's prog folk sensibilities, because it was never a folk album to begin with. Likewise with a lot of other different artists. Tangerine Dream's debut, Alpha Centauri and Atem could for example very well be tagged with a Krautrock sticker (Tongue Dean.....I would prefer the Kosmische moniker though). 
Then again all of this is down to Max. We can conjure up all kinds of wonderful ideas, but it all ends up at his doorstep. So let me ask you this: When have you ever seen any real changes made to PA? 
Exactly.


Man. I think mr. Steve nailed it with this post. I'm gonna say this is the post of the year thus far for me.

Best part is he still managed to throw in a Beastie Boy reference in order to close of his point.
Lol what a side splitter!
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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