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SteveG
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Topic: Are keyboards in Prog music 'played out'? Posted: July 18 2014 at 14:02 |
With the trend of fans embracing new less keyboard centric groups like TOOL, Koonival, Cult Of Luna, Mastodon and new up and comers like Agent and Sisare as well as a post interested in guitar centric groups, do you feel that the use of keyboards in prog music is 'played out' or just failing to offer anything new? If so, why? If not, again, why?
Edited by SteveG - July 18 2014 at 14:56
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The Doctor
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 14:12 |
Definitely not. Of course, I'm not a fan of any of the bands that you mentioned there (the last 2 I have never even heard of). I think the music usually loses something when you remove an instrument from the four main instruments. I think usually it is far less dynamic without both guitar and keyboards intermingling. For me, most guitar-centric music without keyboards sounds fairly bland to me (there are a couple of exceptions: Rush and Wishbone Ash). For some reason I'm much more tolerant of keyboard centric music without guitar (ELP, Egg, Rare Bird, etc.) But most bands I enjoy have a healthy mix of both and I don't really see that changing.
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HolyMoly
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 14:15 |
I think that bands that are continuing to use keyboards in a semi-innovative (rather than nostalgic) way are still out there, but they're just not making prog music. So to answer the question, has the use of keyboards in prog "played out"? I do think that any innovation (if there still is any) in prog is probably not doing it as much from a keyboard angle any more, but I for one hope to see a day when prog groups do new and interesting things with keyboards once again. So I'm not ruling it out.
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brainstormer
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 14:38 |
It's a good observation. You just don't hear a lot of really innovative keyboard work in modern prog, that I'm aware of. Techno, Dubstep, etc. is huge today, and many of those people consider themselves innovative. I'm not sure why there aren't more keyboard centered bands around today. Maybe because they falsely buy into too much of the hype around the old keyboard focused bands. That music surely isn't everytthing to music, in fact, focusing on it too much really kills a lot of new music, esp. new keyboard music. Just like how many people are unable to form long term relationships today, perhaps many keyboardists are unable to create more classically focused "rock" music today. There are a lot of good sountrack artists who focus on keyboards. Digging them out and appreciating them would be a great act of love for art.
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rdtprog
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 15:03 |
I think that IQ have done some interesting thing with keyboards in their
latest, bringing some techno sound to their usual sound. I am for one
very sensible to keyboards sounds, especially vintage, but i also like
some modern keyboards sounds in prog music, for the atmosphere added to
the music. I don't think its a necessary component to the music, but
when used properly with strong songwriting it gives a nice texture to
the music. I also enjoyed keyboards dominated music, like ELP, Ars Nova
and Glass Hammer, but there's nothing better than a nice interplay
between guitars and keys, a bit in the Flower Kings style. I would love
to see Rush bring back the keys, so to answer the question, i would say
no.
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 15:17 |
I'm not an expert in latest-generation Prog but sadly you might be right. Of course retro-prog bands still make good use of vintage-sounding keyboards, and guys like Rudess have kept the keyboard as a front instrument, but there seems to be a wave of bands who are shifting to a more guitar-oriented format (or electronic, which I do not really consider as "keyboard music"). I hope I'm wrong but it's tempting to think that disciplined piano and keyboard learning is not in the agenda of many young lads, learning to play guitar, bass or drums is (IMHO) easier and "cooler". Many guys seem interested in becoming new guitar virtuosos (see Tosin Abasi and the likes) but few young people seem interested in becoming the new Emersons or Wakemans. Again it's just an impression with little objective backup.
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Logan
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 15:59 |
At least in the kinds of recent "prog" albums I listen to, I find
piano to be used quite a bit (but I find other types of keyboards used
as well). Though I love electronic music, quite a bit of what I listen
to in the modern "prog" universe is chamber prog oriented and so the
keyboards are more likely to be of the acoustic variety.
I don't listen to much music of the metal or heavy/ hard rock variety, nor do I tend to listen to the more symph-sounding and melodic rock/ AOR oriented Prog bands, so I'm out of touch with popular "so-called prog" scenes.
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Horizons
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 16:00 |
Yes.
I got sick of hearing keyboards in prog music very quickly. I can like them in music generally, just prog music decides to make them a second guitar and just apply w**ky sounds. This is prolly why i immedietly dislike so much Neo/Symph music.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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uvtraveler
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 16:37 |
It's not that keyboards itself are played out -- it's that if the genre itself becomes too referential (ie -- sounding too much like Genesis circa 1974, as great as that is) then it sounds "played out." I'm a guitarist...and I constantly have to explore new sounds, harmonies, techniques to avoid sounding too referential in rock music. So, I'm sure a good keyboardist does the same thing. I mean there are an infinite number of things Keith Emerson could do with a keyboard in the 70s....I'm sure if you get a top-notch keyboardist in some of these bands, he or she will figure out how to use the instrument(s) in interesting ways.
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sleeper
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 17:07 |
SteveG wrote:
With the trend of fans embracing new less keyboard centric groups like TOOL, Koonival, Cult Of Luna, Mastodon and new up and comers like Agent and Sisare as well as a post interested in guitar centric groups, do you feel that the use of keyboards in prog music is 'played out' or just failing to offer anything new? If so, why? If not, again, why? |
Have you ever listened to Cult of Luna? I suggest you go onto youtube and listen to the song Dim and then try and tell me they don't make use of keyboards. It doesnt take much to find bands that started out in the last 10-15 years that still make extensive use of keyboards.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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dwill123
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 18:03 |
No.
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verslibre
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 18:27 |
SteveG wrote:
With the trend of fans embracing new less keyboard centric groups like TOOL, Koonival, Cult Of Luna, Mastodon and new up and comers like Agent and Sisare as well as a post interested in guitar centric groups, do you feel that the use of keyboards in prog music is 'played out' or just failing to offer anything new? If so, why? If not, again, why? | Tool is not a new band. They've been in existence for more than 20 years, and their early EP Opiate and first proper album Undertow are not prog. I remember when they arrived on the scene and I liked them almost immediately, but they never struck me as prog. Then Ænima changed that. There are plenty of prog/proggy/psych/fringe bands that employ keyboards/synths, like Black Mountain (who got a mention from Jason Newsted on That Metal Show), Lazer Crystal, Earthling Society--and the guys in my avatar, who play concerts with just a keyboards-drums setup. Trans Am and Maserati have both added a bit more synth/electronics to their sound on their last couple albums. None of the keyboardists/synthesists in these bands play like Wakeman/Emerson/Moraz/Downes/Powell, etc. We'll see those again, though.
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Hercules
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Posted: July 18 2014 at 19:01 |
No. Prog keyboards are as good now as they ever were. Listen to The Road of Bones for proof.
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Kazza3
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Posted: July 19 2014 at 00:24 |
Could it be that, in a more general sense (not specifically prog), it's because of the history of the last 30 years of popular music? Mention synths to most people, especially younger people, they'll immediately make a joke about how terrible 80s music is. They'll mostly have a similarly bad reaction to organs. Grunge in the 90s was the perception of raw guitar music winning out over polished keyboard/synth music, and that's more or less still the dominant mindset, even if it's not grunge anymore. Of course young people aren't trying to be the next Emerson or Wakeman, to most of them, if they saw them or heard their music they'd think it was hilarious, a bad joke.
Obviously this is a generalisation, and keyboards are still around plenty, but you get the point.
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Man With Hat
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Posted: July 19 2014 at 00:32 |
dwill123 wrote:
No. | Gotta agree with this.
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richardh
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Posted: July 19 2014 at 02:44 |
Not if the latest album from Deluge Grander - Heliotians is anything to go by. Also Dan Britton's other project Birds and Buildings are doing some interesting stuff that uses keyboards.
Fred Schendel is still going strong in Glass Hammer and a new band Synaesthesia put out a much admired debut album which has loads of keyboards. Rob Reed will also be putting an album shortly which will no doubt have a strong keyboard sound although he is going to use a variety of instruments a la Mike Oldfield.
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verslibre
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Posted: July 19 2014 at 03:19 |
richardh wrote:
Rob Reed will also be putting an album shortly which will no doubt have a strong keyboard sound although he is going to use a variety of instruments a la Mike Oldfield. | An instrumental album?
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Gerinski
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Posted: July 19 2014 at 04:07 |
Kazza3 wrote:
Could it be that, in a more general sense (not specifically prog), it's because of the history of the last 30 years of popular music? Mention synths to most people, especially younger people, they'll immediately make a joke about how terrible 80s music is. They'll mostly have a similarly bad reaction to organs. Grunge in the 90s was the perception of raw guitar music winning out over polished keyboard/synth music, and that's more or less still the dominant mindset, even if it's not grunge anymore. Of course young people aren't trying to be the next Emerson or Wakeman, to most of them, if they saw them or heard their music they'd think it was hilarious, a bad joke.
Obviously this is a generalisation, and keyboards are still around plenty, but you get the point. |
Yeah, many young people see that Coldplay guy and think that he can play the piano really good
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: July 19 2014 at 07:16 |
The Doctor wrote:
Definitely not. Of course, I'm not a fan of any of the bands that you mentioned there (the last 2 I have never even heard of). I think the music usually loses something when you remove an instrument from the four main instruments. I think usually it is far less dynamic without both guitar and keyboards intermingling. For me, most guitar-centric music without keyboards sounds fairly bland to me (there are a couple of exceptions: Rush and Wishbone Ash). For some reason I'm much more tolerant of keyboard centric music without guitar (ELP, Egg, Rare Bird, etc.) But most bands I enjoy have a healthy mix of both and I don't really see that changing. |
He obviously hasn't been listening to Splunge or Strenturgent...
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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sleeper
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Posted: July 19 2014 at 08:22 |
Kazza3 wrote:
Could it be that, in a more general sense (not specifically prog), it's because of the history of the last 30 years of popular music? Mention synths to most people, especially younger people, they'll immediately make a joke about how terrible 80s music is. They'll mostly have a similarly bad reaction to organs. Grunge in the 90s was the perception of raw guitar music winning out over polished keyboard/synth music, and that's more or less still the dominant mindset, even if it's not grunge anymore. Of course young people aren't trying to be the next Emerson or Wakeman, to most of them, if they saw them or heard their music they'd think it was hilarious, a bad joke.
Obviously this is a generalisation, and keyboards are still around plenty, but you get the point. |
Your wrong here, most young people listen to pop music like Lady Gaga which is heavily influenced by 80's pop music and as such is heavily synth based. Of course, all these people would want to be the singer and not the person that actually makes the music.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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