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chopper View Drop Down
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Points: 19942 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rob Reed - Sanctuary
    Posted: July 21 2014 at 15:14
I've just been listening to the new album from Rob Reed of Magenta fame (http://tmr-web.co.uk/robreedsancturay/Blank.html).

Now he makes no secret of being a huge fan of Mike Oldfield and that this album is inspired by Tubular Bells but, to me, it sounds so similar to that album and Ommadawn that I fear Mr Oldfield may sue (not that it isn't very enjoyable music though).

The question is - when does "inspired by" become plagiarism? Has he overstepped the mark here?
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Points: 20159 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2014 at 19:44
From the sample I heard it's very close to plagiarism, but I do like it. I hope Mike is flattered rather than infuriated. 
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Points: 26064 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2014 at 01:00
Not for the first time as Rob has also been accused of lifting sections of Genesis tracks and incorporating them into Magenta's music. He even addresses this on the DVD for the Seven reissue. So far I've only heard part of Sanctuary and it reminds me more of TB2 rather than TB1. That is not a good thing though. I've got in on order and shoudl get it later in the week hopefully then I can give my view.

BTW wasn't Oldfield accused of plagiarism himself?
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Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2014 at 12:18
^From Magma if memory serves. Although I don't think there was anything ever official.

I got the idea that it was obviously inspired by and sounded similar to Tubular Bells from the half that I heard (you can stream the full part 1 on bandcamp I believe) but not an exact copy. I doubt there is a case to be made for actual plagiarism here, but then I only listened once.
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Points: 19942 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2014 at 12:29
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

^From Magma if memory serves. Although I don't think there was anything ever official.

I got the idea that it was obviously inspired by and sounded similar to Tubular Bells from the half that I heard (you can stream the full part 1 on bandcamp I believe) but not an exact copy. I doubt there is a case to be made for actual plagiarism here, but then I only listened once.

Just to make it clear, the plagiarism comment was tongue in cheek. I'm not accusing Mr Reed of such a thing.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2014 at 13:14
Not plagiarism. Perhaps a pastiche, tribute, homage, a knowing nod *shrug*. Other multi-instrumentalists have created works that were inspired by Oldfield and/or Tubular Bells (including Mike himself Wink) but none have been quite this blatant or open about it and I admire him for his honesty. He's never been one to hide his admiration for Oldfield and he's even "sampled" Tubular Bells before (The Secret Wish by Chimpan A). 

As I said in the Press Release subforum, I'm not sure what to make it. This just doesn't feel right to me because it is so close to sounding like a MO/TB tribute album rather than an original piece... I think the word I'm reaching for is something akin to parody, but a parody that is a seriously non-humorous art form that doesn't satirise or trivialise (which a parody can't be of course).
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Points: 26064 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2014 at 00:43
There is a line of reasoning that Oldfield has abandoned this way of working for good so why shouldn't someone else have a go instead?

Reminds me a little of when UK (the second line up with Terry Bozzio) were accused of copying ELP and their response was something like 'well ELP are no longer around but we are'Wink
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Points: 14965 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2014 at 02:41
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

There is a line of reasoning that Oldfield has abandoned this way of working for good so why shouldn't someone else have a go instead?
Reminds me a little of when UK (the second line up with Terry Bozzio) were accused of copying ELP and their response was something like 'well ELP are no longer around but we are'Wink


And we got a stellar album out of it, to boot. It'd be hard to imagine ELP recording something like "Carrying No Cross" or "Danger Money." (Not to mention the violin...)
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Points: 1458 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2014 at 22:26
So what happened to the album? I saw it being added a few days ago, but now I can't find it?
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Points: 26064 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 00:42
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

There is a line of reasoning that Oldfield has abandoned this way of working for good so why shouldn't someone else have a go instead?
Reminds me a little of when UK (the second line up with Terry Bozzio) were accused of copying ELP and their response was something like 'well ELP are no longer around but we are'Wink


And we got a stellar album out of it, to boot. It'd be hard to imagine ELP recording something like "Carrying No Cross" or "Danger Money." (Not to mention the violin...)

Indeed great album that is not a copy and much better than anything ELP recorded post BSS. Any band that dare dispense with a lead guitarist was deemed an ELP copycat band.Smile




Edited by richardh - July 24 2014 at 00:47
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Points: 26064 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 00:46
Originally posted by proggman proggman wrote:

So what happened to the album? I saw it being added a few days ago, but now I can't find it?

The artist will need to be added first so it may take a little longer than usual I guess
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Points: 1458 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 01:10
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by proggman proggman wrote:

So what happened to the album? I saw it being added a few days ago, but now I can't find it?
The artist will need to be added first so it may take a little longer than usual I guess

OK I was just wondering. Smile
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Points: 7 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2014 at 18:58
 Unhappy I had hoped he'd "plagiarize" Kompendiums's "Beneath the Waves" - a stunning record in my estimation.
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Points: 26064 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2014 at 02:50
Its a good album , some might be unkind and call it a pale imitation of Oldfield but its decent and not too long (38 minutes). I've never been convinced by the Kompendium Project for some reason. Its a bit wishy washy new agey and unfocused. This is better music imo.
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Points: 2618 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2014 at 10:27
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I've just been listening to the new album from Rob Reed of Magenta fame (http://tmr-web.co.uk/robreedsancturay/Blank.html).

Now he makes no secret of being a huge fan of Mike Oldfield and that this album is inspired by Tubular Bells but, to me, it sounds so similar to that album and Ommadawn that I fear Mr Oldfield may sue (not that it isn't very enjoyable music though).

The question is - when does "inspired by" become plagiarism? Has he overstepped the mark here?
WOW. Please believe me. I didnt read your post before made my post. You write my opinion better than me. You can sue me too!!Embarrassed
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Points: 2618 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2014 at 10:47
This album is a Exact Copy and  Unvaluable (IMO). I know some of members attack me because of using "Unvaluable" word. Please listen to this album specially Part 1 before attack!! 
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Points: 26064 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2014 at 15:10
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

This album is a Exact Copy and  Unvaluable (IMO). I know some of members attack me because of using "Unvaluable" word. Please listen to this album specially Part 1 before attack!! 

it is an exact copy of Oldfield's style to the point where it might even be called a 'pastiche'. However if Oldfield had made this album would you feel any different about it?

btw unvaluable is not actually a word. 'Valueless' or 'worthless' is probably what you are looking for.Wink


Edited by richardh - July 30 2014 at 15:12
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Points: 2618 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2014 at 09:57
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

This album is a Exact Copy and  Unvaluable (IMO). I know some of members attack me because of using "Unvaluable" word. Please listen to this album specially Part 1 before attack!! 

it is an exact copy of Oldfield's style to the point where it might even be called a 'pastiche'. However if Oldfield had made this album would you feel any different about it?

btw unvaluable is not actually a word. 'Valueless' or 'worthless' is probably what you are looking for.Wink

Good point. 

1-You right about Unvalueable word. YES and I knew that Valueless is CORRECT. Dont forget : I use dictionary and in my dictionary Unvalueable isn't correct word. I use this word for different  purpose. Wink

2-Pastiche isn't enough for my opinion. Its positive and I need negative word to talk about my opinion. I cant say Sanctuary is a bad album. This album is good in many musical reasons like composing or sound or ... (IMO). Rob is a professional musician and he knows how to make a standard song or album. In musical reason this is a 3 star album (IMO) BUT I have problem with COPY. 
I dont know how explain that. This is good but this is bad!!!! I cant rate a COPY because COPY isnt real!!!ConfusedConfused


Edited by O666 - July 31 2014 at 09:58
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Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2014 at 10:22
It's a tribute album, nothing more, nothing less. And as such, I think he does a damn good job at what he was trying to accomplish. And I find it to be quite an enjoyable listen and at the end of the day, that's all I really care about. It doesn't matter that Rob Reed's name is on it instead of Mike Oldfield's. It doesn't matter that it isn't 100% original and breaking new ground. The only way it would have been bad is had he tried to use Oldfield's style and sucked at it. Fortunately, that was not the case. He tried to do a tribute to Oldfield and he succeeded at that quite well. Good for him and thanks for giving us something new in a style that a lot of us love.
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Points: 2618 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2014 at 11:09
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

It's a tribute album, nothing more, nothing less. And as such, I think he does a damn good job at what he was trying to accomplish. And I find it to be quite an enjoyable listen and at the end of the day, that's all I really care about. It doesn't matter that Rob Reed's name is on it instead of Mike Oldfield's. It doesn't matter that it isn't 100% original and breaking new ground. The only way it would have been bad is had he tried to use Oldfield's style and sucked at it. Fortunately, that was not the case. He tried to do a tribute to Oldfield and he succeeded at that quite well. Good for him and thanks for giving us something new in a style that a lot of us love.

This is your opinion Doc and I dont agree with you.

1- Yes I enjoy too much and as I said before This is a good album but this irrelevant to be a COPY or not.

2- Tribute?! No I dont think like this. Tribute album have own specifics and elements. We have many examples of these albums in PA and I'm sure I dont need to list them for you. You are a 5star member.

3- Its matter for me Rob Reed name or Mike Oldfield name in this case. One musician COPY other's music, not inspire or tribute!! Why you talk like this? 

4- Who talked about originality? I like too many bands that not 100% original.

5- I respect to Rob's try . I like his works in Magenta and specially in Kompendium and you can find influences of genesis in both bands specially in keyboard playing but I cant say he COPY bank's style.

6- You wrote "He tried to do a tribute to Oldfield and he succeeded at that quite well. Good for him and thanks for giving us something new in a style that a lot of us love".  Something new?!! Can you show me where is this  "something new" in Sanctuary? If you love this style, You can listen to TB or other oldfield's same style albums easily! What is new in Sanctuary? Why pay money to buy this album? All of us (this style lovers as me) have Oldfield's first four albums and we dont need to pay for Rob's album.
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