How Important are lyrics to you in Prog music

Man With Hat wrote: Not at all. The only time lyrics are an issue are when they are the focus/the music is secondary. And in that case, I generally don't like it.

I would say that in cases where the lyrics are front and center and the music is secondary, the lyrics and the vocalist both have to be pretty exceptional to pull it off. If either of those elements are less than exceptional, then yeah, I would agree, I generally don't like it.

Recently I got Big Big Train's English Boy Wonders and that was 80 minutes of lyrics basically with the rest of the band backing up the singer. Unfortunately, the lyrics were not very exceptional (a story about boy meets girl, boy loses girl-whoopee!) and the singer at the time, while having a pleasant enough voice didn't have the chops to pull off an 80-minute lyrically centered album. I like all their other albums, but have to say that one was kind of a disappointment.

On the other hand, people like Peter Hammill, Fish, Waters all have the lyrical and vocal skills to pull off lyric-centered songs/albums and make them sound damn good.

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: Toaster Mantis wrote: I'm kind of surprised by how many people who don't really care about the content of lyrics unless they're exceptionally bad or good, aren't the lyrics' content usually the main cues to the thematic meaning of the music? Along with song titles, cover art etc. If the music is either instrumental, or in a language I don't understand, then the latter aspects become even more important. I don't care about song titles (particularly on instrumentals & foreign languages), I don't care about album art in the context of the music, I just like them as pieces of art or design. I really don't care about the thematic meaning of the music.  What I care about is does the music move me, connect with me, make me happy, bring me joy, in its own right. I don't need meaningful lyrics, good art or cleaver titles for any of those things,

+1.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 24 2014 at 07:10

Toaster Mantis wrote: I'm kind of surprised by how many people who don't really care about the content of lyrics unless they're exceptionally bad or good, aren't the lyrics' content usually the main cues to the thematic meaning of the music? Along with song titles, cover art etc. If the music is either instrumental, or in a language I don't understand, then the latter aspects become even more important.

Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - July 24 2014 at 05:40

SteveG wrote: Let me throw this out before I  pack it in. What makes a GOOD lyricist?

1) Don't hit your audience over the head with your subject matter. We ALL know that war is bad.

2) If you do want to say "War is bad" (for example) then tell a story against that background instead. Pull Out The Pin by Kate Bush springs to mind.

3) Try to make every word count.

4) The emotional tone of the lyrics should match and enhance the emotional tone of the music. Unless you're doing exactly the opposite on purpose :-) (Oasis by Amanda Palmer is a classic example. A bouncy pop song about rape, drunkeness, abortion etc. etc.)

There's probably many more but that's what I'm thinking of at the moment.

I don't care much about the lyrics of the artists I listen to, and even less about their political views/worldview.  As Darrell said the voice is another instrument in the band which is why foreign language lyrics are every bit as enjoyable to me as English ones. 

If pushed I suppose the lyrics I enjoy most would be whimsical ones, Barrett like stuff.  Or poetic, romantic stuff like early Kate or Heart, the more flowery Genesis/Yes stuff, or Robert Hunter.  But it doesn't matter much.  If the song rocks and I like the music, the lyrics just aren't important to me. 

I think you explained it better than I did, Dean.  Thanks.  And uh, Steve, sorry for hijacking the thread man, it was not my intent.  But, for 30 large, I will return the thread to you safe and sound.  

^ Odd ... but I'll keep that in mind.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 23 2014 at 20:14

SteveG wrote: Let me throw this out before I pack it in. What makes a GOOD lyricist?

Isn't your ability to think critically enough? You want a whole science on your hands. You can make a list of do's and don'ts and give advice, but in the end it still might come off sketchy. The basic idea here is this: follow your instincts but see to it that the listener doesn't get you wrong on anything. I don't believe that your style has to be totally built around what you want people to hear. You are not the only judge. I once auditioned for a metal band (what a stupid f$%king idea), and their wordsmith wanted to write a song about a rock-n'-roll prison. And, oh yeah, he listens to Avenged Sevenfold.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 23 2014 at 19:46

Let me throw this out before I  pack it in. What makes a GOOD lyricist?

Edited by SteveG - July 23 2014 at 18:58

^ That's the first time I hear of such use of the word "unless". I always thought of it as a conjunction that separates the preferable from not preferable.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 23 2014 at 18:46