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Poll Question: Is the PA site becoming overly censored?
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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 03:43
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

My main complaint is the moving of threads so you end up being thrown all around the site. Do I want to end up on the fun forum? Do I look like someone who has fun?LOL
Can you can explain why this thread should remain in Prog Polls in the Prog Music forum and and not be moved to General Polls in the Topic Not Related To Music forum?

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Yeah, I had notice this about some people avatar's. But actually I notice when it got to the extreme of censoring a cow's udders and some women in bikini. Just ridiculous.
The avatars are self-censored by the persons themselves and nothing to do with the Site. Most of them, including the Atom Heart Mother avatar used by Ian (Nogbad_the_bad), were done by those users as a form of ironic protest at the Google warning notice we received - at the time (we are talking about something that happened 8 months ago) all of the Admin team supported that protest by blurring their own avatars. 

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

I'm starting to see what I consider to be excessive censorship on this site. It started with the posting. A** instead of Ass and that sort of thing. Some of it may have been self censorship to be sure.
Your example of ass and a** is obviously self censorship, the auto-censor doesn't censor donkey or mule either, nor does it censor arse or backside, bum, bottom, buttocks, booty, tush, rump, buns, hindquarters, keister, posterior, rear, rear end, rump, stern, seat, tail, behind, derriere, gluteus maximus or most amusingly for the English - fanny. It may auto-censor a****le or arsehole (I don't know - I've not self-censored those so if they are censored now then we have our answer).

Originally posted by Progosopher Progosopher wrote:

I have been assuming the censorship I have seen on this was self-inflicted out of a general sense of decency. I myself was censored for using the word "w**ker" on a discussion last year relating to one Howard Stern, a word I would assume is less offensive than "retard." Perhaps we will see on this forum.
As a pejorative w*nker never carries its literal meaning, however it is not synonymous with retard so there isn't a sliding scale of offensiveness. 

W*nker is only non-offensive when used in a jocular manner between close friends, and then only in face-to-face greetings, it's very difficult to convey its light-hearted usage in print, especially on the internet. Using pejorative insults such as w*nker, t**ser, f*cker and even c*nt as friendly greeting terms between friends is a very British thing and is incredibly dependant on circumstances and subtle nuances of body language and tone of voice so it best left to the experts - get it wrong and you'll earn yourself a smack in the mouth. [in that usage referring to someone as an old c*nt can be less offensive than calling them an old tw*t]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The real irony of censorship is that it draws attention to the censored word or image and makes it even more prominent. Even if this site turned off the auto-censor and permitted the free use of profanity I would still use an asterisk in the word f*ck for that reason. (however I'd never use a French cartoon Gaul in such circumstances )  

The other irony is that censoring is a sign of repression in the censor not oppression of the censored. 




Edited by Dean - July 24 2014 at 03:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 03:50
The board filters I find silly but am not overtly bothered with, it's mostly the censoring of record cover art I'm annoyed by. Weren't the site admins supposed to work on the same solution as RateYourMusic, where NSFW cover art is blocked for non-registered users but visible in original form when logged in though?

Edited by Toaster Mantis - July 24 2014 at 03:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 04:00
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

The board filters I find silly but am not overtly bothered with, it's mostly the censoring of record cover art I'm annoyed by. Weren't the site admins supposed to work on the same solution as RateYourMusic, where NSFW cover art is blocked for non-registered users but visible in original form when logged in though?
The only person who can do that is Max, the Admins cannot change the site software. 

It's easy to blame the Admins for censorship but it is nothing to do with them, it is entirely a Max decision that this site should remain "family friendly" - this isn't the case on MMA for example where the auto-censor is disabled and profanity can be used freely - however, even there it cannot be used offensively against another person.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 04:27
As Dean stated I self pixellated the Atom Heart Mother cover as an ironic protest at any censorship of album covers. Apologies if it causes confusion to anyone but I like it as my avatar & will continue to use it until something else takes my fancy :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 06:31
Wow, unbelievable !  Thanks for the info on Google, I had no idea. I now find them to be the most reprehensible organization on earth.Do a Google image search on the word "Nude" and just see what pops up. Not 16th century art or fine art photos, but extreme hard core porn. It appears Google will censor everyone but themselves. Bloody hypocrites! The worst of it being that we, the masses, have no say in or control over what takes place on what is supposed to be a free and open medium. I weep for the future as these puritan azzholes inflict their warped and despicable morals on the world.

Thanks for clearing up my misconceptions about the site administrators being responsible.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 06:35
Originally posted by Kazza3 Kazza3 wrote:

Yeah, the censoring of album art is all Google:


They're banning 'sexually explicit content' on pages which feature their advertising. It is, of course, absurd, but hardly PA's fault. Clearly Michelangelo's David and Renaissance paintings and the like should be removed from public viewing so that children don't have to endure the horror of gazing upon the human form.


In what way is that not PA's fault? Who's forcing them to have Google ads on pages that contain album art?

If they want to do that, I can't say I begrudge them the decision, but don't try to pass the buck and pretend that it's somehow out of their control, because it isn't.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 06:44
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Kazza3 Kazza3 wrote:

Yeah, the censoring of album art is all Google:


They're banning 'sexually explicit content' on pages which feature their advertising. It is, of course, absurd, but hardly PA's fault. Clearly Michelangelo's David and Renaissance paintings and the like should be removed from public viewing so that children don't have to endure the horror of gazing upon the human form.


In what way is that not PA's fault? Who's forcing them to have Google ads on pages that contain album art?

If they want to do that, I can't say I begrudge them the decision, but don't try to pass the buck and pretend that it's somehow out of their control, because it isn't.
Absolutely. Max could simply disable GoogleAds on those pages with dubious covers. Given that those are few and far between it won't harm the revenue stream from running the ads so the site can keep paying for itself. Again, it's coding related and so out of the hands of the Admins.

The dumb thing with Google is their guidelines are so vague it's not easy to tell what they consider to be too risqué for prissy consumption. I managed to convince Max to restore the Felona e Sorona album cover to its uncensored state but there are still many that I think he has been over-cautious on.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 06:47
All this censoring must be a nightmare for people who live in Sc**thorpe.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 06:51
^I thought I'd fixed that one. I know I fixed pocketwatch and sweetwater.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 07:23
^ pity the poor folks of Penistone, South Yorkshire, Cocksgag, Ohio, W.a.n.k.endorf, Schleswig-Holstein, Beaver Head, Idaho, Middle Intercourse Island, Australia, Bear Butte, South Dakota, Knob Lick, Kentucky, Wattanobby, Australia, Wetwang, North Yorkshire, Gays Creek, Kentucky, Phuket, Thailand, Spread Eagle, Newfoundland and Smuts, Saskatchewan. Clown


Edited by ExittheLemming - July 24 2014 at 07:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 07:27
I'm opposed to the Google censorship, but as pointed out by the quoted post from Dean earlier in the thread there is little option if the site is to remain functioning.

On a broader note we live in a morally confused world, where little seems to make sense in terms of censorship. Horrendous and morally bankrupt things are going on all the time in the field of politics, economics, warfare and often with the blessing of governments, but for some reason Google - an organisation very much in bed with government and inteligence servcies - think they should be able to able to control images of nudity and the like to "protect the vulnerable" Do they strike you as the kind of organisation who really care about users well being?

I put it out there that it is actually nothing to do with censoring images on grounds of decency, but more to do with aclimating people, getting them used to having web content censored at every turn. People moan about it now. Ten years from now, people will be demanding it and anyone opposing it will regarded with suspicion and in all probabilty will be thrown off forums and social media for rabble rousing and making trouble.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 07:29
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


^ pity the poor folks of Penistone, South Yorkshire, Cocksgag, Ohio, W.a.n.k.endorf, Schleswig-Holstein, Beaver Head, Idaho, Middle Intercourse Island, Australia, Bear Butte, South Dakota, Knob Lick, Kentucky, Wattanobby, Australia, Wetwang, North Yorkshire, Gays Creek, Kentucky, Phuket, Thailand, Spread Eagle, Newfoundland and Smuts, Saskatchewan. Clown


I believe there's a Swiss or German Town (maybe Austrian) called F***ing, believe it or not.. They really are screwed...sorry I mean scr**ed...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 07:46
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I'm opposed to the Google censorship, but as pointed out by the quoted post from Dean earlier in the thread there is little option if the site is to remain functioning.

On a broader note we live in a morally confused world, where little seems to make sense in terms of censorship. Horrendous and morally bankrupt things are going on all the time in the field of politics, economics, warfare and often with the blessing of governments, but for some reason Google - an organisation very much in bed with government and inteligence servcies - think they should be able to able to control images of nudity and the like to "protect the vulnerable" Do they strike you as the kind of organisation who really care about users well being?

I put it out there that it is actually nothing to do with censoring images on grounds of decency, but more to do with aclimating people, getting them used to having web content censored at every turn. People moan about it now. Ten years from now, people will be demanding it and anyone opposing it will regarded with suspicion and in all probabilty will be thrown off forums and social media for rabble rousing and making trouble.
Nah. It's purely financial.

Google makes its money by selling advertising space. GoogleAds pay us a small percentage of that ad revenue so they can put their customers' ads on our pages. They will not risk losing their advertisers if those pages contain salacious imagery or, as the policy states "adult or mature content". 

So it's not about protecting the innocent or public decency (as others have stated Google and YouTube will happily show you as many naked bodies as you like) and it's certainly not about group-conditioning and acclimatisation - if that were the case then a Google search for tits would only show you images of garden birds...



Edited by Dean - July 24 2014 at 07:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 07:56
^^^ You just taught me a word (acclimate - I had to look that up) Although I'm not quite as pessimistic as you are by such developments, I do agree that an entity who pay sites to carry their client's adverts will invariably seek to turn such a mutually beneficial relationship into an instrument of control. There are however, alternatives to Google with regards PA generating income for its owner by carrying ads: Chitika, Bidvertiser, Skimlinks, B4PSAds.com, Infolinks, Intellinks, Viglink, Dynamic Oxygen, Clicksor, Exit Junction (the list goes on) I have no idea if any of the foregoing have the same sort of prurient censorship rules as Google or if they even come close to paying their rates, but if Max can get paid by carrying ads that DON'T impinge on displaying album artwork as it was intended, then it's a win-win scenario for all concerned innit?


Edited by ExittheLemming - July 24 2014 at 07:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 08:11
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

- if that were the case then a Google search for tits would only show you images of garden birds...

 
You mean it doesn't? Shocked
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 08:30
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

- if that were the case then a Google search for tits would only show you images of garden birds...

 
You mean it doesn't? Shocked
I'm at work, I'm certainly not going to test it. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 11:10
Put the word 'blue' in front of t and you sould be fine..

Actually, no still don't try it... I knew a woman who painted her t!ts blue once..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 11:52
At least they weren't "bearded"  Pinch

Actually I was thinking of looking for a pair of the "great" variety of said birds.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 15:22
I saw this thread earlier and thought about posting but gave up on it because it was 30 something degrees in the sun, and I would frankly rather watch the family kitten chase butterflies and act accordingly loopy in the garden than typing PA posts on my iPhone

....which I am doing now and it's still a pain in the arse.

Dean perfectly illustrates what I have always said, and that is pretty much that we all are admins around here. Granted some with more buttons to push when they log in, but the fact still remains, so thank you Dean for reminding me.

There is still a bad taste in my mouth about all this. I will refrain from going back to WTF IS HAPPENING?!?!?-mode like 8 months ago, but will say this: there is always a reason to do what companies like Google do, and that is pure and simply money. We can slice this baby any which way we want to, but that's always going to be the bottom line. They can't 'afford' to look bad in the eyes of those that feed em dough.

Edited by Guldbamsen - July 24 2014 at 15:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2014 at 15:41
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


^ pity the poor folks of Penistone, South Yorkshire, Cocksgag, Ohio, W.a.n.k.endorf, Schleswig-Holstein, Beaver Head, Idaho, Middle Intercourse Island, Australia, Bear Butte, South Dakota, Knob Lick, Kentucky, Wattanobby, Australia, Wetwang, North Yorkshire, Gays Creek, Kentucky, Phuket, Thailand, Spread Eagle, Newfoundland and Smuts, Saskatchewan. Clown


You missed Big Bone, Kentucky with its nearby Big Bone Lick State Park. And also in Kentucky is Beaverlick. Those Kentuckians have a rich oral tradition.

Edited by The Doctor - July 24 2014 at 15:42
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