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SteveG
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Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Topic: Was early 80's King Crimson really Prog? Posted: July 28 2014 at 13:47 |
With the recent talk in threads about some King Crimson members, I decided to listen to two of my least favorite KC albums, Discipline and Beat. A friend first played Discipline for me when it first came out stating that 'it was KC but different.' After hearing the album, all I could agree to was that 'it was different.' After revisiting Discipline and Beat today (I didn't even bother with Three of a Perfect Pair), I'm still struck with the urge to either pull out some Talking Heads or early Roxy, or go the other way and pull out Larks Tongue or Red. Discipline and Beat come off to me as either jerky new wave without hooks and ironic lyrics or stiffer math rock versions of Larks Tongue. I'm never going to like them but do you consider early 80's KC prog? If so, why?
Edited by SteveG - July 28 2014 at 15:01
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zravkapt
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Posted: July 28 2014 at 13:51 |
Fripp doesn't even consider what KC did from '69-'74 to be 'prog'. Never forget the fact that Discipline was the name of a band who changed their name to 'King Crimson' (the same way 90125 was recorded by a band called Cinema who changed their name to 'Yes').
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Magma America Great Make Again
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 26108
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Posted: July 28 2014 at 14:53 |
Good question. Yes its prog because its progressive. No because its minimalistic post new wave ingratiating bullsh*t .
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Horizons
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Posted: July 28 2014 at 16:56 |
Of course..
80's KC is amazing and Discipline is one of their Top 3 albums.
It's funky, unique, hardhitting, and Belew is one of a kind.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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irrelevant
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Posted: July 28 2014 at 17:11 |
Discipline - Yep. Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair- Maybe a little less so but still firmly in the art rock realm.
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Imperial Zeppelin
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Posted: July 28 2014 at 17:54 |
Prog. Not Prog. It's all elephant talk to me.
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HackettFan
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Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: July 28 2014 at 18:37 |
Yes, Discipline is Prog. It started Math Rock, which is a Prog genre. Prog has always embraced unusual time signatures and polyrhythms that was the fuel for Discipline. Discipline experimented with timbres; all the unusual techniques Belew used in playing the guitar, the use of fretless guitars, the use of guitar synthesizers, the use of the Chapman Stick, and electronic percussion. Aside from the Sheltering Sky it didn't fit neatly into Symph Prog anymore, but so what? I love Symph Prog, but Symph Prog is not all inclusive of Prog.
Edited by HackettFan - July 28 2014 at 18:39
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Svetonio
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Posted: July 28 2014 at 19:02 |
Discipline, Beat and Three of Perfect Pair the albums were saved that progressive rock genre in the eighties imo.
Edited by Svetonio - July 28 2014 at 19:03
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Svetonio
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Posted: July 28 2014 at 19:04 |
HackettFan wrote:
Yes, Discipline is Prog. It started Math Rock, which is a Prog genre. Prog has always embraced unusual time signatures and polyrhythms that was the fuel for Discipline. Discipline experimented with timbres; all the unusual techniques Belew used in playing the guitar, the use of fretless guitars, the use of guitar synthesizers, the use of the Chapman Stick, and electronic percussion. Aside from the Sheltering Sky it didn't fit neatly into Symph Prog anymore, but so what? I love Symph Prog, but Symph Prog is not all inclusive of Prog. |
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sleeper
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Joined: October 09 2005
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Posted: July 28 2014 at 19:26 |
Yes.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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KingCrInuYasha
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Location: USA
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Posted: July 29 2014 at 01:15 |
Most definitely. They had that cerebral vibe that the previous eras had.
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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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LSDisease
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Posted: July 29 2014 at 05:47 |
Absolutely. They were more proggy than neo-prog bands of the 80's but it doesn't mean they were better than Marillion or IQ. I think they chose an interesting direction but most of their 80's songs are not memorable. That's the problem.
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: July 29 2014 at 06:42 |
irrelevant wrote:
Discipline - Yep. Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair- Maybe a little less so but still firmly in the art rock realm. |
What he said.
Imperial Zeppelin wrote:
Prog. Not Prog. It's all elephant talk to me. | What he said too.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 29 2014 at 06:42
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refugee
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: November 20 2006
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Posted: July 29 2014 at 07:26 |
HackettFan wrote:
Yes, Discipline is Prog. It started Math Rock, which is a Prog genre. Prog has always embraced unusual time signatures and polyrhythms that was the fuel for Discipline. Discipline experimented with timbres; all the unusual techniques Belew used in playing the guitar, the use of fretless guitars, the use of guitar synthesizers, the use of the Chapman Stick, and electronic percussion. Aside from the Sheltering Sky it didn't fit neatly into Symph Prog anymore, but so what? I love Symph Prog, but Symph Prog is not all inclusive of Prog. |
Exactly. At the time we didn’t call it "prog" but we sure could hear that it was innovative. And we loved it.
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He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill)
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HolyMoly
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Posted: July 29 2014 at 07:36 |
I think it was the most successful attempt to posit progressive rock as
an ongoing concern in the 1980s. It was different because it had to
be. Its brighter, funkier sound took cues from Talking Heads, Bowie,
and Eno, and their overall image was much more "new wave", which helped
distance them from the long-haired 70s thing.
"Is it Prog (genre)?" - a loaded question because in many peoples' minds
(including mine), they pretty much invented their own branch of
progressive rock. If PA had existed in 1981 and they'd come up for
evaluation, they probably would have been rejected because they didn't
fit the mold of what had come before. But history has played itself
out, and like it or not, they're prog.
"Is it progressive?" - a separate question, to which I also say, yes it is, maybe in the strongest sense of the word.
"Is it good?" -- another separate question. Personally, I'm not head
over heels in love with this era of the band, but Belew's strange guitar
sounds are endlessly cool, and his virtuosity is a neat complement to
Fripp's own virtuosity. Belew is not a bad songwriter either. Tony
Levin was an innovator in the bass seat - I don't know if he was the
first guy to play the Chapman Stick, but he was my first exposure to
it. And any band with Bruford on drums is bound to sound great.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
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Posted: July 29 2014 at 07:58 |
You know, Joan Armatrading had some of this Crimso line-up playing for her at some stage. They can be heard on that song 'I don't know why they call me names'.
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SteveG
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Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Posted: July 29 2014 at 14:50 |
Excellent arguments for the early eighties band being prog, especially by HackettFan and Holy Moly, so prog it was and prog it still is. But please feel free to add to the mix.
Edited by SteveG - July 29 2014 at 14:57
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
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Location: England
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Posted: July 29 2014 at 15:16 |
I consider it to be proggy new wave, and I love those three albums.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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SmRanaldi
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 29 2014
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Points: 6
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Posted: July 29 2014 at 17:11 |
Yes, it was. Of course it is not classic progressive, but it is as complex and beautiful as any other progressive work, and I really love those three albums. In my opinion, 80's King Crimson created a new kind of progressive which had influence in the development of many other prog-related genres.
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Man With Hat
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Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
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Points: 166178
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Posted: July 29 2014 at 17:22 |
Yes.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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