Was early 80's King Crimson really Prog?

With the recent talk in threads about some King Crimson members, I decided to listen to two of my least favorite KC albums, Discipline and Beat. A friend first played Discipline for me when it first came out stating that 'it was KC but different.' After hearing the album, all I could agree to was that 'it was different.' After revisiting Discipline and Beat today (I didn't even bother with Three of a Perfect Pair), I'm still struck with the urge to either pull out some Talking Heads or early Roxy, or go the other way and pull out Larks Tongue or Red. Discipline and Beat come off to me as either jerky new wave without hooks and ironic lyrics or stiffer math rock versions of Larks Tongue. I'm never going to like them but do you consider early 80's KC prog? If so, why?

Edited by SteveG - July 28 2014 at 15:01

Good question. Yes its prog because its progressive. No because its minimalistic post new wave ingratiating bullsh*t.

Discipline - Yep. 

Yes, Discipline is Prog. It started Math Rock, which is a Prog genre. Prog has always embraced unusual time signatures and polyrhythms that was the fuel for Discipline. Discipline experimented with timbres; all the unusual techniques Belew used in playing the guitar, the use of fretless guitars, the use of guitar synthesizers, the use of the Chapman Stick, and electronic percussion. Aside from the Sheltering Sky it didn't fit neatly into Symph Prog anymore, but so what? I love Symph Prog, but Symph Prog is not all inclusive of Prog.

Edited by HackettFan - July 28 2014 at 18:39

HackettFan wrote: Yes, Discipline is Prog. It started Math Rock, which is a Prog genre. Prog has always embraced unusual time signatures and polyrhythms that was the fuel for Discipline. Discipline experimented with timbres; all the unusual techniques Belew used in playing the guitar, the use of fretless guitars, the use of guitar synthesizers, the use of the Chapman Stick, and electronic percussion. Aside from the Sheltering Sky it didn't fit neatly into Symph Prog anymore, but so what? I love Symph Prog, but Symph Prog is not all inclusive of Prog.

Most definitely. They had that cerebral vibe that the previous eras had.

irrelevant wrote: Discipline - Yep.  Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair- Maybe a little less so but still firmly in the art rock realm.

What he said.

Imperial Zeppelin wrote: Prog. Not Prog. It's all elephant talk to me.

What he said too.

I think it was the most successful attempt to posit progressive rock as an ongoing concern in the 1980s.  It was different because it had to be.  Its brighter, funkier sound took cues from Talking Heads, Bowie, and Eno, and their overall image was much more "new wave", which helped distance them from the long-haired 70s thing.

"Is it Prog (genre)?" - a loaded question because in many peoples' minds (including mine), they pretty much invented their own branch of progressive rock.  If PA had existed in 1981 and they'd come up for evaluation, they probably would have been rejected because they didn't fit the mold of what had come before.  But history has played itself out, and like it or not, they're prog.

"Is it progressive?" - a separate question, to which I also say, yes it is, maybe in the strongest sense of the word.

"Is it good?" -- another separate question.  Personally, I'm not head over heels in love with this era of the band, but Belew's strange guitar sounds are endlessly cool, and his virtuosity is a neat complement to Fripp's own virtuosity.  Belew is not a bad songwriter either.  Tony Levin was an innovator in the bass seat - I don't know if he was the first guy to play the Chapman Stick, but he was my first exposure to it.  And any band with Bruford on drums is bound to sound great.

Excellent arguments for the early eighties band being prog, especially by HackettFan and Holy Moly, so prog it was and prog it still is. But please feel free to add to the mix.

Edited by SteveG - July 29 2014 at 14:57

Yes, it was. Of course it is not classic progressive, but it is as complex and beautiful as any other progressive work, and I really love those three albums. In my opinion, 80's King Crimson created a new kind of progressive which had influence in the development of many other prog-related genres.