Is Japan any more prog-related than say The Cure?

Japan were a new romantic band, and with ma number of those bands they were quite progressive in their approach to making music. In that regard everyone from OMD to the Human League were "prog related" All of these bands grew up listening to Kraftwerk, Amon Duul, Can, Tangerine Dream etc and were just applying electronic music principles in a pop framework.

That said, Japan were a cut above the rest in terms of musicianship IMO. The Tin Drum album is also completely unique. Their Porcupine Tree connections aside, Jensen and Barbeiri released a string of rather progressive and thought provoking albums in the 90's (available by mail order only at the time) which I would classify as actual progressive rock. There were multiple projects involving the likes of Fripp in various combos with Japan members, so overall I think Japan have earned a prog related tag. The Cure, although inventive and an excellent band are closer to post punk, new wave, goth etc than prog rock.

Edited by Blacksword - September 16 2016 at 03:39

Guldbamsen wrote: Mick Karn was a bass genius. I just need to think of him and bam his tone, sound and feel immediately emanates from back in my skull.

Raff wrote: They were included because of their music, not because their members were/are involved with prog bands. Actually, they were first added in Crossover, before I was pressured into moving them to PR. As to why they're here, I'd suggest listening to their music before dismissing them because of their association with New Wave (whatever that means). My personal opinion is that a lot of bands tagged as New Wave were way more interesting/progressive than a lot of the stuff included here, but I am also against flogging dead horses.

I say every musician is prog related. We all breathe the same air as Fripp, Wilson, Gilmour. We all share similar DNA therefore everyone is prog related. I expect to see Justin Bieber here soon

Whether or not a band's individual members release prog music, on their own time, shouldn't determine whether a band is included in the Archives.

"3) Members of important progressive rock bands - Although most of the recorded solo output of artists like Greg Lake and David Gilmour falls more in a mainstream rock style, their contributions to progressive rock in their respective bands insures them a place in our prog-related genre. "

Edited by TheProgtologist - October 08 2014 at 17:31

thwok wrote: I've been saying for a long time that The Cure is at the very least a prog-related band that deserves to be on ProgArchives.  Thank you to BarryGlibb for being on the same page! . If Muse is here, in many ways a similar band, why isn't The Cure?  Robert Smith's music has definitely progressed over time, and incorporates a lot of different elements.  It's also so intelligently written and creatively arranged that I think Smith should get props.  My suggestion for inclusion would be the albums Pornography or The Top.

Me three.

Bauhaus is more prog than The Cure! And what about Fields of the Nephilim? They had long songs with different sections and keyboards, they're definteily symphonic prog IMHO.

dr wu23 wrote: BarryGlibb wrote: Just wondering how Japan have been designated prog-related on the PA site and The Cure, Simple Minds and Big Country and a number of similar bands have not. Can't see how their music is anything more prog-related than those mentioned above. Is it only because David Sylvian later collaborated with Fripp? Discuss. I tend to agree with you in that they are no  'proggier' than any of the early Cure and Simple Minds who both had some very interesting songs on their early albums. But then this whole thing is very subjective when it comes to saying who should be on PA and who shouldn't. It's not open to a vote so those making the call are  using their own personal ideas and guidelines  about what is prog related and what isn't. No doubt with different collaborators or a larger pool of votes the bands would change somewhat. For instance Zeppelin and Blue Oyster Cult , 2 bands I like,  are listed as prog related but other than a few longer songs here and there I personally  don't see the prog related aspect . Again it's very subjective.

One aspect of progressing rock is eschewing the blues. BOC were one of the first hard rock bands to do so. (as well as Scorpions, Purple, Sabbath, Rainbow, Gillan, UFO before Judas Priest got the credit for doing what others did first - largely because no one had noticed Priest leaving the blues long before anyone had noticed they had ...).  Zeppelin eventually used blues in some numbers the way some pop groups employ rock ideas.

It's not just long songs - but what a band does with harmonies and rhythms. Most prog rock is about orchestrations and very in depth (and more correctly applied musical rules) than basic rock and obviously - formally structured numbers. By which I mean a 32 bar jazz ballad (Cole Porter) or a 12 bar blues (Howlin' Wolf) are not prog rock (obviously) but still well structured music. How Genesis apply the disciplines of styles is what puts them in the forever interesting category, well for me any way, and the others...

Prog rock is all about employing classical ideas to a rock base. Yes there are variations but this is the primary goal from the start.

The Church are also included here as a Crossover Artist. I don't mind Kilby and his cohorts but never did strike me as anything to do with Prog. Japan at least were amazing, with subtle Prog-isms.
Big Country are miles away from The Cure. The Cure do have excellent tunes, but man that Robert Smith has a voice that sh*ts me.