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Dean 
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 Posted: August 22 2014 at 12:31 |
Connecting the dots in Thick As A Brick:
Since it's been a while since I last read the St Cleve Chronicle, I'd forgotten this Anderson-type joke:
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SteveG
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Posted: August 22 2014 at 13:07 |
"Voices In Your Head. part 2
Originally concept was to
be the pressures of modern life (Nick Mason, Inside Out Page 186, it is
also mentioned in other sources.), clearly Waters introduced some of his
thoughts on madness into this concept so the concept changed and
developed as the album was being written. The themes of the songs up to
and including "Us and Them" are self-evident and most of them have
self-descriptive titles just to make it abundantly clear and cover
various aspects of modern life (relationships, money, time, death,
conflict, travel etc). The final three tracks (together with the album
cover) are related to insanity and madness with a bit of high school
philosophy thrown in for good measure, and since they form the
conclusion and denouement of the album then it is evident that to tie
everything together they are the key element of the overall concept.
{pressures of modern life} >> {insanity} >> {...}
Looked
at this way it we can consider the album to be about the pressures of
modern life that lead to mental breakdown. Except when you read the
lyrics it doesn't really work. As I said earlier, anyone and everyone
can identify with some part of the lyrics at some point or other; some
part of the lyric will resonate with some of us at some time in our
lives. We all can and do experience every aspect of modern life as
depicted in the lyric without going crazy. Simply observing that "I fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way" or "when I ask for a pay rise it's no surprise they're giving none away"
doesn't exactly have me reaching for the Prozac, even the thought of an
inevitable death at some unspecified time in the next 40 or so years
doesn't tip me over the edge.
It is only when
we consider how the pressures of modern life prey on our minds can we
make the connection to mental breakdown - the nagging doubt, the
foreboding fear, the gnawing worry, the troubled conscience - that the
pressure we feel is self-inflicted when we listen to these voices in our
head (ie our inner voice). Now the lyrics to the first part of the
album make sense in relation to the concluding part.
That is not my concept, that is my interpretation of the concept as I understood it back in 1973"
And no one connects the dots better than you do, old boy, if you realize it or not.
Edited by SteveG - August 22 2014 at 13:07
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Wallace The Lad
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Posted: August 22 2014 at 13:19 |
 presdoug wrote:
As I have a background in studying history, I love it when a concept album deals with an historical event or events, like, you guessed it, Triumvirat's Spartacus and Pompeii albums. (though the concept doesn't have to be always historical for me to like it)
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Yep. "Illusions on a Double Dimple" is a concept and not historical. And the best of the three, I should add.
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Wallace The Lad
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Posted: August 22 2014 at 13:22 |
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One of my favorite concept lps - which few seem to even rate - is BIRTHCONTROL'S ' BACKDOOR POSSIBILITIES'.
Their proggiest lp sounding like nothing else in their catalogue. Complex vocal harmonies, anorl.
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Dean
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Posted: August 22 2014 at 17:18 |
SteveG wrote:
And no one connects the dots better than you do, old boy, if you realize it or not.
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Thanks. It's a rare talent.
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What?
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 10:22 |
Dean wrote:
SteveG wrote:
And no one connects the dots better than you do, old boy, if you realize it or not.
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Thanks. It's a rare talent. |
As I am loath to ask the members who feel that TAAB is concept album just what the concept of Thick as a Brick actually is, perhaps you could place pencil to paper and actually answer that question. And remember, Uncle Ian is watching, that cheeky devil. 
Edited by SteveG - August 23 2014 at 11:33
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 13:35 |
The concept of TAAB is the conceit that a certain precocious lad, Gerald "Little Milton" Bostock wrote an epic poem that the rock band Jethro Tull put to music. The trials and travails of Bostock are included in the satiric newspaper that acts as the album cover. The poem is printed in one of the articles.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 15:39 |
Look, I'm not really interested in playing your game. I took your snippy put-down with good grace, let that be an end to it.
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What?
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dr wu23
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Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 09:42 |
SteveG wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
^So, you must really not like concept albums then.  |
I like them fine they are just not my favorites among all, the prog albums I own and like.
For instance; I like Stand Up, Benefit , and Aqualung ( I don't consider this a concept lp) better than TAAB.
Meddle better than DSOTM and WYWH (which I never thought of as a concept lp either btw..)
IMHO many of these so-called concept albums are weak regarding their ..er..concepts.
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I think in a roundabout way, Doc, you may have just provided some profound wisdom on concept albums that I have failed to grasp. Perhaps it's their weak concepts, generally speaking, that causes me place an album like Aqualung in with the rest. I'll have to meditate on this. |
In your opinion what is the 'concept' of Aqualung and DSOTM..? |
A good question Doc, that deserves an answer. DSOTM, to me, is about the desperation of life along with themes of death and madness that are sonically linked togther to give the impression of a concept. But the lyrics are vivid, not vague. Aqualung is diatribe against organized religions, their creators versus their creation (God) and the people who suffer because of it: Aqualung and Cross Eyed Mary. Again, the lyrics to me are vivid and not vague. |
I can see those ideas in DSOTM though I'm not sure I would consider it a true concept album based on just similar themes in some of the songs..
And regarding Aqualung only one song is directly about God and or creation....I don't see that in most of the other tracks at all. Aqualung and Crosseyed Mary to name just 2 have nothing to do with God per se imho...or am I missing something?
btw some one mentioned theme vs concept.....to me these albums seem to be more themed than conceptual...but then maybe I'm getting the terms confused. |
I see Doc. If you're not familiar with the songs on Aqualung that are about God, the placement of the songs, Anderson's liner note's stating that God is a man made construct along with some form of man made subhuman species assumed to not have a soul of which the Aqualung character is a part, then a concept album would be hard to imagine indeed.
So I will tell you the four songs that are directly about God which are on the original LP's side 2.
1) My God
2) Hymn 43
3) Slipstream
5) Wind Up.
After the vitriolic spew of songs 1 through 3 comes song no .4, the vaguely lyrical but importantly climatic Locomotive Breath (a song about an impending train wreck, perhaps the lyrics are not so vague), which Anderson himself stated was needed to climax the side two suite of songs before concluding with song No.5, the yarning gently reflective Wind Up. A song in which Anderson opines that God is not only available on a Sunday, after his side 2 diatribe about all that is bad about the hypocrites and those that misuse God's name for ill purposes along with the others that misunderstand the message that they themselves created. Hmmm, sounds conceptual to me.
The side 1 songs that connect with side 2 through Anderson's liner notes are the opening title track character Aqualung, how he suffers, and his the lyrical connection with the school yard prostitute Cross Eyed Mary.
The rest of the songs connect up about as well as most other concept albums, which is to say that they do not. Be as may, that's Aqualung's concept and that's why even some people other than myself consider it to be one. (Just check Wikipedia. LOL)
My personal contention is that Anderson never said that Aqualung was a concept album. He did just about everything but actually say that it was. Did I say that he was a Cheeky devil? 
However Doc, if you do not read the original album liner notes or the album lyrics carefully and at least consider them as some PA members have failed to do or even dismissed them out of hand without even considering them, for God knows what reason, then I doubt you will get past connecting more than three or four of the albums songs together. Peace be upon you my friend. |
I took the time to read the liner notes and of course I know those 4 songs well having listened to Aqualung from the time it was released. Side 2 does have a theme concerning God /Religion..and I always thought that it was strange that side one was so different in nature. I honestly don't see much of a connection to side 1 and to make both sides part of the 'concept' is a huge stretch imho but as I said side 2 does have a 'concept/theme'.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Wallace The Lad
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 09:50 |
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Aye. As most here already know, Anderson denied that Aqua was a concept work. (But you'd have to ask his wife to be sure.)
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Wallace The Lad
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 09:51 |
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Now, Homo Erectus , that IS a concept.
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7946
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Posted: August 25 2014 at 00:15 |
dr wu23 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
^So, you must really not like concept albums then. |
I like them fine they are just not my favorites among all, the prog albums I own and like.
For instance; I like Stand Up, Benefit , and Aqualung ( I don't consider this a concept lp) better than TAAB.
Meddle better than DSOTM and WYWH (which I never thought of as a concept lp either btw..)
IMHO many of these so-called concept albums are weak regarding their ..er..concepts.
|
I think in a roundabout way, Doc, you may have just provided some profound wisdom on concept albums that I have failed to grasp. Perhaps it's their weak concepts, generally speaking, that causes me place an album like Aqualung in with the rest. I'll have to meditate on this. |
In your opinion what is the 'concept' of Aqualung and DSOTM..? |
A good question Doc, that deserves an answer. DSOTM, to me, is about the desperation of life along with themes of death and madness that are sonically linked togther to give the impression of a concept. But the lyrics are vivid, not vague. Aqualung is diatribe against organized religions, their creators versus their creation (God) and the people who suffer because of it: Aqualung and Cross Eyed Mary. Again, the lyrics to me are vivid and not vague. |
I can see those ideas in DSOTM though I'm not sure I would consider it a true concept album based on just similar themes in some of the songs..
And regarding Aqualung only one song is directly about God and or creation....I don't see that in most of the other tracks at all. Aqualung and Crosseyed Mary to name just 2 have nothing to do with God per se imho...or am I missing something?
btw some one mentioned theme vs concept.....to me these albums seem to be more themed than conceptual...but then maybe I'm getting the terms confused. |
I see Doc. If you're not familiar with the songs on Aqualung that are about God, the placement of the songs, Anderson's liner note's stating that God is a man made construct along with some form of man made subhuman species assumed to not have a soul of which the Aqualung character is a part, then a concept album would be hard to imagine indeed. So I will tell you the four songs that are directly about God which are on the original LP's side 2. 1) My God 2) Hymn 43 3) Slipstream 5) Wind Up. After the vitriolic spew of songs 1 through 3 comes song no .4, the vaguely lyrical but importantly climatic Locomotive Breath (a song about an impending train wreck, perhaps the lyrics are not so vague), which Anderson himself stated was needed to climax the side two suite of songs before concluding with song No.5, the yarning gently reflective Wind Up. A song in which Anderson opines that God is not only available on a Sunday, after his side 2 diatribe about all that is bad about the hypocrites and those that misuse God's name for ill purposes along with the others that misunderstand the message that they themselves created. Hmmm, sounds conceptual to me. The side 1 songs that connect with side 2 through Anderson's liner notes are the opening title track character Aqualung, how he suffers, and his the lyrical connection with the school yard prostitute Cross Eyed Mary. The rest of the songs connect up about as well as most other concept albums, which is to say that they do not. Be as may, that's Aqualung's concept and that's why even some people other than myself consider it to be one. (Just check Wikipedia. LOL) My personal contention is that Anderson never said that Aqualung was a concept album. He did just about everything but actually say that it was. Did I say that he was a Cheeky devil? However Doc, if you do not read the original album liner notes or the album lyrics carefully and at least consider them as some PA members have failed to do or even dismissed them out of hand without even considering them, for God knows what reason, then I doubt you will get past connecting more than three or four of the albums songs together. Peace be upon you my friend. |
I took the time to read the liner notes and of course I know those 4 songs well having listened to Aqualung from the time it was released. Side 2 does have a theme concerning God /Religion..and I always thought that it was strange that side one was so different in nature. I honestly don't see much of a connection to side 1 and to make both sides part of the 'concept' is a huge stretch imho but as I said side 2 does have a 'concept/theme'. |
Locomotive Breath is very much about religion. It concerns the view that some take that there was a creator God responsible for the laws of nature, but that's all. Once the laws of nature were set motion, what remains of a deity's interest in affecting outcomes? Cross-Eyed Mary is about a girl who was intellectually challenged whom the other local boys exploited for sexual favors. The title seems like it was meant to be in juxtaposition with any and all of the biblical Marys. Names like this are not chosen at random. Some of the others invoke issues of good behavior, which may or may not have a religious context intended. I tend to think so. Mother Goose and Up to Me are the only one's that seem to me to be truly distant from the (partial) album concept.
Edited by HackettFan - August 25 2014 at 00:20
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Wallace The Lad
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Posted: August 25 2014 at 08:06 |
How do you connect that the homeless suffer because of religion. Does not religion try to help. (I just watched a movie yesterday ,Sympathy For Delicious, where religion was aiding the poor. But , it would seem that by you...apparently not. It is a hinderance to the homeless.)  Do not forget, Cross-eyed Mary enjoys her flaw. ... "Aqualung wasn't a concept album, although a lot of people thought so. The idea came about from a photograph my wife at the time took of a tramp in London. I had feelings of guilt about the homeless, as well as fear
and insecurity with people like that who seem a little scary. And I
suppose all of that was combined with a slightly romanticized picture
of the person who is homeless but yet a free spirit, who either won't
or can't join in society's prescribed formats." That is clear enough.
Edited by Wallace The Lad - August 25 2014 at 08:56
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SteveG
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Posted: August 25 2014 at 10:36 |
Dean wrote:
Look, I'm not really interested in playing your game. I took your snippy put-down with good grace, let that be an end to it. |
Indeed you did, my hat's off to the better man.  (So I take it that you don't want to expound on TAAB's lyrics then? Just kidding,)
Edited by SteveG - August 25 2014 at 11:21
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HackettFan
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Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
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Posted: August 25 2014 at 13:43 |
Wallace The Lad wrote:
How do you connect that the homeless suffer because of religion. Does not religion try to help. (I just watched a movie yesterday ,Sympathy For Delicious, where religion was aiding the poor. But , it would seem that by you...apparently not. It is a hinderance to the homeless.)Do not forget, Cross-eyed Mary enjoys her flaw...."Aqualung wasn't a <span style="text-decoration: underline;">concept album</span>, although a lot of people thought so. The idea came about from a photograph my wife at the time took of a <span style="text-decoration: underline;">tramp </span>in London. I had feelings of guilt about the homeless, as well as fear
and insecurity with people like that who seem a little scary. And I
suppose all of that was combined with a slightly romanticized picture
of the person who is homeless but yet a free spirit, who either won't
or can't join in society's prescribed formats."That is clear enough.
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The concept was never that religion is responsible for bad things. It was about kindness and empathy toward others being where the real focus of religion should be versus religion and society's prescribed formats which did not always reflect those values. No more key example of this than from Hymn 43 (from memory): And the unsung Western hero killed an Indian or three, and then he made his name in Hollywood to set the white man free.
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SteveG
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Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20469
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Posted: August 25 2014 at 14:25 |
dr wu23 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
^So, you must really not like concept albums then. |
I like them fine they are just not my favorites among all, the prog albums I own and like.
For instance; I like Stand Up, Benefit , and Aqualung ( I don't consider this a concept lp) better than TAAB.
Meddle better than DSOTM and WYWH (which I never thought of as a concept lp either btw..)
IMHO many of these so-called concept albums are weak regarding their ..er..concepts.
|
I think in a roundabout way, Doc, you may have just provided some profound wisdom on concept albums that I have failed to grasp. Perhaps it's their weak concepts, generally speaking, that causes me place an album like Aqualung in with the rest. I'll have to meditate on this. |
In your opinion what is the 'concept' of Aqualung and DSOTM..? |
A good question Doc, that deserves an answer. DSOTM, to me, is about the desperation of life along with themes of death and madness that are sonically linked togther to give the impression of a concept. But the lyrics are vivid, not vague. Aqualung is diatribe against organized religions, their creators versus their creation (God) and the people who suffer because of it: Aqualung and Cross Eyed Mary. Again, the lyrics to me are vivid and not vague. |
I can see those ideas in DSOTM though I'm not sure I would consider it a true concept album based on just similar themes in some of the songs..
And regarding Aqualung only one song is directly about God and or creation....I don't see that in most of the other tracks at all. Aqualung and Crosseyed Mary to name just 2 have nothing to do with God per se imho...or am I missing something?
btw some one mentioned theme vs concept.....to me these albums seem to be more themed than conceptual...but then maybe I'm getting the terms confused. |
I see Doc. If you're not familiar with the songs on Aqualung that are about God, the placement of the songs, Anderson's liner note's stating that God is a man made construct along with some form of man made subhuman species assumed to not have a soul of which the Aqualung character is a part, then a concept album would be hard to imagine indeed. So I will tell you the four songs that are directly about God which are on the original LP's side 2. 1) My God 2) Hymn 43 3) Slipstream 5) Wind Up. After the vitriolic spew of songs 1 through 3 comes song no .4, the vaguely lyrical but importantly climatic Locomotive Breath (a song about an impending train wreck, perhaps the lyrics are not so vague), which Anderson himself stated was needed to climax the side two suite of songs before concluding with song No.5, the yarning gently reflective Wind Up. A song in which Anderson opines that God is not only available on a Sunday, after his side 2 diatribe about all that is bad about the hypocrites and those that misuse God's name for ill purposes along with the others that misunderstand the message that they themselves created. Hmmm, sounds conceptual to me. The side 1 songs that connect with side 2 through Anderson's liner notes are the opening title track character Aqualung, how he suffers, and his the lyrical connection with the school yard prostitute Cross Eyed Mary. The rest of the songs connect up about as well as most other concept albums, which is to say that they do not. Be as may, that's Aqualung's concept and that's why even some people other than myself consider it to be one. (Just check Wikipedia. LOL) My personal contention is that Anderson never said that Aqualung was a concept album. He did just about everything but actually say that it was. Did I say that he was a Cheeky devil? However Doc, if you do not read the original album liner notes or the album lyrics carefully and at least consider them as some PA members have failed to do or even dismissed them out of hand without even considering them, for God knows what reason, then I doubt you will get past connecting more than three or four of the albums songs together. Peace be upon you my friend. |
I took the time to read the liner notes and of course I know those 4 songs well having listened to Aqualung from the time it was released. Side 2 does have a theme concerning God /Religion..and I always thought that it was strange that side one was so different in nature. I honestly don't see much of a connection to side 1 and to make both sides part of the 'concept' is a huge stretch imho but as I said side 2 does have a 'concept/theme'. |
Fair enough Doc, perhaps I misunderstood your post as to the God themed songs but no matter. I'm been having this debate, which I do not take that seriously BTW, for the best part of 30 years and usually where people originally see no connections in the album to anything, they will usually end up with the one side concept/theme realization ala Abbey Road or Scheherazade. The important thing was just to dust off these old albums like Aqualung and TAAB, take another look at them and see how much Anderson trod the line between concepts and Progressive Rock music during that era either by design or not. I always felt that Anderson made album's and rock fun, even when he wasn't trying to, and in the end, that's what Rock and Roll should be all about. Just ask Roy Harper.
Edited by SteveG - August 25 2014 at 14:29
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Why do we love Prog concept albums?
