Is Prog Rock the New Folk? |
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 30 2012 Location: HiFi Headmania Status: Offline Points: 7750 |
Posted: August 30 2014 at 17:54 | ||||
This. |
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12688 |
Posted: August 30 2014 at 18:05 | ||||
Hey, executions by beheading and stoning are back in vogue, so anything is possible. I can hardly wait to have my barber pull a tooth or relieve my sanguine humour with leeches.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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PrognosticMind
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 02 2014 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
Posted: August 30 2014 at 19:11 | ||||
This is more or less what I was getting at in my posts above.
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"A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?"
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64352 |
Posted: August 30 2014 at 19:37 | ||||
Yeah I don't think so. I love fast food and I also love healthy food. I live on the westcoast, not the midwest, and whatever the good people of of Lawton eat is probably affordable and sustaining them through hard times. I also have no doubt they like it. Who doesn't enjoy a nice Wendy's burger now& then or some Popeyes with biscuits and slaw. You think if there was, what, a "Pasta Pomodoro", or better yet a Chez-Panisse, that Oklahomans would stop eating fastfood? I very much doubt it. It is part of American culture the same way other hot, greasy, inexpensive things like Fish & Chips are part of England or grilled capybaras are a part of Venezuela. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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DBJetsman
Forum Newbie Joined: August 30 2014 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Posted: August 30 2014 at 19:38 | ||||
No and I hope not because I'll still be able to say that I'm more inteligent than 99% of 18 year olds because I like 60s/70s/80s rock while they're too busy listening to Beyonce
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"...we hope to give you something far more substantial and fulfilling. All you need to do is sit back, and acquire the taste."
- Gentle Giant |
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 00:34 | ||||
Indeed, I thought so.
They like it, sure. But liking here is meaningless. It is not constructed out of choice. I keep ordering diet Pepsi or diet coke at restaurants. Is it because I like it? No, I hate colas. My parents raised me on root beer, but if you want diet at a restaurant, that's your only choice. Even if someone does like colas it's meaningless to say someone likes their limited alternatives. Even when there is a choice cultural conditioning and practicalities such as time or money or other such things influence the choice. Liking has little to do with such choices, although we tend to grade our likes and dislikes on a curve. Yeah, I'll enjoy my diet cola because it's better for my day to day sanity than not enjoying it. Edited by HackettFan - August 31 2014 at 00:38 |
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Prog_Traveller
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 29 2005 Location: Bucks county PA Status: Offline Points: 1474 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 00:46 | ||||
If we are to consider that prog might be hip again then we wouldn't compare prog to folk we would compare it to indie rock. There is already some crossover with indie stuff. However, I don't see this happening. I don't see young hipsters getting into prog in a major way unless they are bands like Sigur Ros or the Mars Volta or progressive bands that have some kind of hipster "street cred." I hate to say it but I think your average 20 year old would probably lump Yes and Genesis etc in with Boston, Journey, Foreigner, Tom Petty and any other classic rock band that their parents listen to. Yes I admit I am a bit cynical.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64352 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 00:48 | ||||
But you still don't like it and you know you don't like it. The difference is people who like Lady Gaga sincerely like her; her music, her costumes, her bold attitude. They see an artist doing something new, or what to them is new, and they respond. They can't really help it, and you can't judge that as being ignorant of better music simply because you don't appreciate the poor choice of diet softdrinks in your area. One thing has little to do with the other. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Prog_Traveller
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 29 2005 Location: Bucks county PA Status: Offline Points: 1474 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 00:54 | ||||
Anyway, I disagree with the premise of the article that prog is about to have some sort of big revival. For one thing you could say it already has although it's arguable that it has been a big one. For another, the internet has been around for over 20 years now. If prog were to have some sort of big comeback it would have happened by now. File this under the wishful thinking category. :)
Also, I find it interesting that the writer doesn't mention one newer prog band.
Edited by Prog_Traveller - August 31 2014 at 00:55 |
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 06 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 4287 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 01:41 | ||||
Don't forget, we are not talking about Yes and Genesis, and all that 50 years old records, some of us believe is god giving. We are talking about a new generation of music makers, creating new music, in a prog rock sort of style.
That is what has happened with folk, is not like Joan Baez have sold a ton of records lately, it's new bands doing new music, more or less inspired by a folk tradition. |
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 09 2005 Location: Entropia Status: Offline Points: 16449 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 05:53 | ||||
I think the point is not whether or not they like the current choices but the lack of exposure to a wider variety. Even with a greater exposure to the widest possible range of choices there will always be those that keep to fast food or it's equivalents in whatever area of interest you care to name, but those with a propensity to explore and look for something new, at least to them, should have the chance to do so and not have it dictated by corporations telling people whats cool today. And since none of this is mutually exclusive it doesn't stop someone liking the occasional burger or Lady Gaga as well. |
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 10:11 | ||||
I think Sleeper's comment did my post justice. I think we may be disagreeing on what percentage of Lady Gaga's or other pop star's audience sincerely like their music. Some will, sure, there are all sorts of people out there, but that's exactly why I can't absorb the idea that people have flocked to any given popular music without social/commercial/peer manipulation. Some people go with what is popular just because it's popular. This can be intentional on some people's part, then it's annoying. Or it can be passive and naive, then it's sad. If you reshuffle the deck of popularity, you change what they like. This is not sincere in my notion of sincerity. To tie this to the topic of the thread, let me say that I think that if Prog became popular again, we would win some new converts, but we would also see a lot of fellow "fans" whose interest was a mile wide and an inch deep. |
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PrognosticMind
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 02 2014 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 10:14 | ||||
Impeccable timing with seeing all of this, and I couldn't agree more with these last two posts.
Edited by PrognosticMind - August 31 2014 at 10:15 |
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"A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?"
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Prog_Traveller
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 29 2005 Location: Bucks county PA Status: Offline Points: 1474 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 13:08 | ||||
Newer bands creating a kind of prog rock(to paraphrase what you said)meaning a more modern version of it has already happened. In fact this very idea started a little over 30 years ago with the neo prog scene. Did neo prog become huge? No not really. Most US music fans still have no idea who Marillion is and they are considered to be probably the biggest neo band. So yeah, a kind of newer form of prog is not a new concept at all. You might even put Radiohead in that category and it could be argued that they were the forerunners of it. Did they become big? Yes they did. Did they make prog super huge(again). No, not really. I'd say if Radiohead can't do it then nobody can. Another example might be Mars Volta. They got pretty big too but didn't convert tons of prog fans. My point is if it was going to happen it would have already happened by now. Prog did have a bit of a comeback starting around ten to twelve years ago(at least in a significant way). The problem is that prog is just not radio friendly. Other than that it just doesn't get exposed other than a few magazines and on the internet. I'm not sure if there is still a stigma attached to it(maybe still a small one)but regardless prog doesn't have much of a chance of being hip or mainstream just by the qualities that make something prog(ie long songs, complex time signatures etc). And if we water it down too much and it make it more radio friendly then it's no longer true prog and just art rock at best.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20468 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 13:15 | ||||
In a word....no.
I don't think prog rock in general is going to ever get much 'bigger' than it is now or was in the past.
It simply doesn't appeal to the masses who listen to pop music for the most part.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Metalmarsh89
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 15 2013 Location: Oregon, USA Status: Offline Points: 2673 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 13:50 | ||||
Why does listening to prog (or old rock music) make you more intelligent than someone who listens to Beyonce? |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16163 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 14:03 | ||||
Not sure what this has to do with the whole thread, but I can see one thinking that a "famous" this or that can not do anything with a rock band or singer. That's grossly unfair. These collaborations are seen a lot more in Europe than they are in America where the media has a tendency to pigeonhole people in the desert! And you might check the mixes of artists in music and film in Germany and Japan in the 60's, 70's and 80's and 90's. But America is (at least) about 5 or 6 countries and music will never get the pat of the ba ck of the arts, because in Nashville they don't like loud guitars (hahaha!!!) and in New York, they think twangtwing is stupid and cheesy and bad music! And in LA, it doesn't have enough rap bullets! And New Orleans thinks that music that doesn't have a black beat, ain't no music! For the most part, any art scene that was worth its mettle, and is still heard, all it means is that the artists and work was VALUABLE ENOUGH for it to be heard more than once and still be appreciated 40 to 50 years later. That's a lot more than some of the crap pop music write ups for the majority of these rock fans and reviewers, whose "favorites" won't be remembered tomorrow at all! But saying that we don't have a Woody Guthrie, or an Arlo (for that matter!) or even a Bob Dylan, to tell us that we're not smart enough, and we're too entranched in our toys to give a damn about the meanings and the art forms, is kinda boring, and no one, even at PA will listen to it, or bother to read it, specially if it comes from me, of course!!! Part of the problem is that we think that the "western world" history only exists where we know the media was. Since the media was not present at the Basques, in Munich, in Rhodesia, in Reykjavik, in Lithuania, it means that there is no one that wrote any meaningful music to you and I, or expressed their opinions, as Joan Baez, Country Joe and others, did for a whole generation, will be validated by folks like you or I ... because we don't think that we're valuable or important or have anything to say, any more than that person did on some publication! It's a tough discussion all around, but I find it insulting when it thinks that only a handful of people can represent it, and that is the part that is sad. Progressive and Prog music, is much bigger than London and the US ... but we wouldn't know that here, or believe it unless we saw some stupid newspaper article by another John that came from Melody maker or the New Music Express ... to tell us that someone's glasses were cool, and yours weren't! Edited by moshkito - August 31 2014 at 15:04 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 14:53 | ||||
IMO all what is needed to achieve Mr Clayderman's predictions, I mean what contemporary (2010s) prog really needs that it's gonna be launched in height, it's just ONE prog band who will be the first to break the ice; i.e. a young prog band who will get their place in CD collections and hearts of people who do were not listen to prog before, or rarely, but who have desire for a good music on some degree.
That supposed band have to be what we call crossover prog (with some of prog-folk element which is always welcome) but very original, with great charisma, strong emotions and passionate approach to the whole thing. Their background also has to be such that it touches the hearts of non - proggers. An important thing is that these non-proggers are going to start to widely enjoy in prog with that supposed band - not in something that could be called also as pop or something, as for example some journalists misguidedly were called Coldlplay "new prog". I think such a band will slightly open a door through which the bunch of others will pass in, and that's already the moment when the guys from the music industry will do their job. Edited by Svetonio - September 04 2014 at 23:20 |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64352 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 19:38 | ||||
Prog's popularity was a flash in the pan, Pop music's is not. There's a reason for that. Nobody "goes with what is popular", that's an assumption. I'm afraid you have it backward. Popular is popular because people go to it. And unless you wanna accuse the music business of working with the CIA on mind control, there's no basis for thinking that a lack of exposure ~ which seems to be your main thesis here ~ is what prevents people from becoming jazz or classical or art music fans. Why is it so hard to accept that the world does indeed dance to its own tune? The fact that we don't much like the tune doesn't mean the corporations are in control of tastes. They are not the taste-makers, we and the journalists we like are. We spend the money, we support the artists, we are the dream seekers, and we are the ones the corporations are watching. They respond to the mass market, not the other way around. I know that's a shock, but in reality far truer than most realize. People who don't like jazz know they don't like it, people who don't like electronic music know they don't like it. Maybe someday they will, but until then no one's going to spend their hard-earned money on something they don't like and won't listen to. Period. Edited by Atavachron - August 31 2014 at 20:14 |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Metalmarsh89
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 15 2013 Location: Oregon, USA Status: Offline Points: 2673 |
Posted: August 31 2014 at 22:41 | ||||
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