The Role of Computers in Prog

BrufordFreak wrote: What is your opinion with regards to the use of computers to create, track, mix and time music?  Do you feel that there is a loss of artistic integrity when the musicianship is "assisted" by computers? Do you look down upon artists who create and manipulate their music on the computer screen? Does a prog artist have to be able to perform his/her music live for you to be able to respect him/her? That is, do you feel disappointed when a live performance has some tracks computer generated instead of all coming from live performing musicians? Do you think a Mozart and Beethoven or Debussy and Mahler or Coltrane and Hendrix would have gravitated to computerized composition, or computerized recording techiniques?  A lot of very loaded questions but with the increasing prevalence of computer-enhanced music being generated today, I'm just searching for the insights and opinions of other music lovers with regards to this phenomenon. Obviously computers are here to stay, and computers have allowed a access to publication of one's musical ideas to a far larger segment of the population, but, overall, in your opinion, is this a good thing? Is the quality keeping up with the quantity? Is the conveyance of emotion as impactful as the studio recordings of the 60s and 70s? Is the spirit in music today as alluring and engaging as that of the "classic" period of prog?

Hello BrufordFreak, that's not an easy question to reply but here goes my best attempt :) hugs

Do you feel that there is a loss of artistic integrity when the musicianship is "assisted" by computers?

In general music recording studios always assisted bands/musicians in recording music to their best of their abilities. The system was more complicated and time delayed however it has not changed in this perspective, all was designed to bring and highlight the best from the tapes era to date.

Do you look down upon artists who create and manipulate their music on the computer screen?

I understand where you come from however in this modern day I think the capability of musicians to record their own music brings creative freedom even more so compare to the 60’s or 70’s, these days most if not all music artists who made it in the music industry are pop related, this is also based on individualism, not a band, most of these artist don’t even play or write their own music. Also their music is heavily manipulated by loud bass tunes (not bass guitar), little or no real music instruments. The Fat Cat Suits in the Music Industry decided to sponsor i.e. sexy image instead of quality (also this makes talentless artists much easier to manage) people are sheep and due to MTV etc the youth follow what is on trend, this is dictated to them and they accept it as they do not know better. This is why the internet and methods of recording are very important and beneficial in reference to you topic.   

Does a prog artist have to be able to perform his/her music live for you to be able to respect him/her? That is, do you feel disappointed when a live performance has some tracks computer generated instead of all coming from live performing musicians?

Oh heck yeah, every musicians should be able to perform their songs live, even if they need to acquire 2 more guitarists to perform a song live, however most great recent bands don’t even get this chance because they are ignored. Considering that although we crave for the great old prog moozik days, we do NOT give the new ones a chance to prove themselves, dwelling on the old great ones.
Also no band sounds as good as a studio album which has been produced, pc or not in studio, but for any good band this doesn’t matter at all because for the fans or attendees there is no better euphoric loving experience as listening live, that’s a fantastic feeling way better than any perfect studio mastered album to be honest.

Do you think a Mozart and Beethoven or Debussy and Mahler or Coltrane and Hendrix would have gravitated to computerized composition, or computerized recording techiniques?

I believe all of them would opt for digital version no doubt. Also one can clearly hear and distinguish between i.e. acoustic drums or not among others. To be honest I think vocals benefit most from the digital era compared to instrumentals.

Again,

Edited by Kati - September 23 2014 at 00:57

It's an old discussion. Speaking of synths, somebody said that non-natural sound shouldn't be part of music, at least not inclassical music.

...so you no longer run an analogue recording studio?

I have yet to hear a better rock band than Led Zeppelin.  Their silly Celebration Day is a disaster.  It's so over manipulated that the life has been stripped right out of the 1's and 0's.  Listen to that ... then listen to Song Remains the Same.  Full of mistakes and 1000 times for connecting to the listener.

Their have been no better prog bands in the digital age than 70's YES and GENESIS.  No better obscure prog bands than Gentle Giant, or Henry Cow. 

Pink Floyd's epic was recorded on analog tape machines as was ELP's classic. 

Think about how tight Gong played or Rush on Hemispheres.  It blew people away because it was that good.. even in the analog studio.  With digital, it's just expected now.. a big yawn.  A big roll of the eyes.  Who cares for another perfect album that dies on my ears.

Here we go again....
A lot of bark and no bite. Let's all make some wild accusations of which we have absolutely no proof of whatsoever. It just sounds 'righteous' to trash computers. The 2001 disease that'll have every musicians out there employing Hal to do 90% of his/her job.
Please go back and read Dean's earlier (bible length) post on this subject.

Btw I really really love music where mistakes are allowed - heck even condoned and subsequently used. You must be looking in all the wrong places though, because bands are still doing that. I guess you just have to step of the ol symph train in order to find that.

Edited by Guldbamsen - September 23 2014 at 03:51

Surrealist wrote: I have yet to hear a better rock band than Led Zeppelin.  Their silly Celebration Day is a disaster.  It's so over manipulated that the life has been stripped right out of the 1's and 0's.  Listen to that ... then listen to Song Remains the Same.  Full of mistakes and 1000 times for connecting to the listener.Their have been no better prog bands in the digital age than 70's YES and GENESIS.  No better obscure prog bands than Gentle Giant, or Henry Cow.  Pink Floyd's epic was recorded on analog tape machines as was ELP's classic.  Think about how tight Gong played or Rush on Hemispheres.  It blew people away because it was that good.. even in the analog studio.  With digital, it's just expected now.. a big yawn.  A big roll of the eyes.  Who cares for another perfect album that dies on my ears.

Please do not yawn and stop giving the 70's bands too much credit and give more consideration to new bands, studio recordings or not, the tapes era is gone and this makes them no less better.

Edited by Kati - September 23 2014 at 03:55

Surrealist wrote: We had a band come in last night that I have worked with.  Recorded everything live.  Two ambient mics in the back of the room as the major source of the sound recording.  Then what I do is go in very subtly with closer in miking to add to that for detail.  8 mics on the kit, two on the bass cabinet, two on the guitar cab, two on the Leslie, two on a Rhodes running into a 15" with a horn also.  4 mics on a percussionist.  Two mics on a vocalist. One direct and the other on a small PA to add texture.  All that submixed coming into a 16 track tape reel.  The mix is a piece of cake.  Takes 5 minutes to mix it down.  No EQ, no reverb, no computers or plug ins.  It sounds amazing.. but it needs to be played back on a quality system or it just sounds like other compressed digital nonsense.  I would post the session here but it would have no impact in a crap digital format.

I looked at your profile out of curiosity and you gave John Miller Studio Album, released in 2013 4 stars. Obviously this was recorded by modern technology.

Surrealist wrote: I don't think the tape era is gone.. but it needs to be followed through with a mix to tape machine and then vinyl transfer without digital manipulation.

no studio in their right mind will use tapes common! really? There is nothing wrong with digital recording, manipulation and compression yes but recording is the best common?