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Topic ClosedQUESTION about King Crimson's no video policy

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Guy Guden View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2014 at 03:58
As I understand it, there will be no DVD release of the King Crimson 2014 shows, especially the California performances.  To the best of my knowledge, no official video recorders were present.  Robert and Jakko have announced that the Los Angeles Orpheum performance(s) WILL be released in audio form in January 2015.  They were that good.  DGM on Twitter should keep you updated.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 17:42
Hi,
 
I'm not sure a DVD would make this band sound/look any better than what they just did.
 
There is, really, nothing to see and us keeping our fan-hats on the person we like, means we're not really listening, or closing our eyes, and just flying with the music.
 
I agree with the no DVD thing ... but I would like to see more of the stuff they did released on CD ... but it is Robert's choice, not mine and I will accept that as the artist's right to do so with his work!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 18:49
No offense to Fripp, whom I have immense respect for, but it seems rather entitled to have such a petty rule enforced, and very strictly, no doubt. Fripp has absolutely earned his respect and success, but even if I knew I was the world's greatest guitarist, I would have the up most respect and thanks for my fans. This includes wanting them to have the best time possible at my shows (especially if tickets are upwards of a hundred dollars!!!), and if that means them taking some pictures and/or video, that's no skin off my back. Now, if people are constantly shoving a camera in your face, I can see having those people warned and/or removed, but that's certainly no reason to ban it outright. Still, if I went to a KC concert, I'd much rather sit and enjoy the show than risk getting kicked out for a few measly, probably blurry pictures.


Edited by Ozark Soundscape - December 13 2014 at 18:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2014 at 11:51
It's so simple. Just don't do it! Start your own band and tell everyone to film and photo the whole thing. Maybe you'll start a cool culture of a ton of fans actively sharing the experiences and enriching new and old fans alike. Maybe you'll end up with a bunch of people crowded in a room staring at gadgets and ignoring your music.

I saw Bent Knee perform in Boston a few weeks ago, and intermittently between their emotional, delicate, complex arrangements, three or four photographers were elbowing past me to take photos of "moments" they thought were important to capture. It was distracting because this music involves a lot of attention to appreciate, and the presence of photographers made it hard for those of us who were actually there to let the music sink in as deeply as I know it can.

Just don't take any darn pictures of King Crimson. They go out of their way to ask you not to do it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2014 at 12:36
Originally posted by Ozark Soundscape Ozark Soundscape wrote:

Fripp has absolutely earned his respect and success, but even if I knew I was the world's greatest guitarist, I would have the up most respect and thanks for my fans.


The (single) word you're looking for is utmost.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2014 at 13:51
Originally posted by puma puma wrote:

I saw Bent Knee perform in Boston a few weeks ago, and intermittently between their emotional, delicate, complex arrangements, three or four photographers were elbowing past me to take photos of "moments" they thought were important to capture. It was distracting because this music involves a lot of attention to appreciate, and the presence of photographers made it hard for those of us who were actually there to let the music sink in as deeply as I know it can.


I saw Bent Knee earlier this year supporting Mike Keneally, they were great.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2014 at 14:01
They've put out some really decent official videos, I see no need to waste money on bootlegs...
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2014 at 09:27
Hi,
 
So weird to see folks "demanding" something from Fripp ... he's not a cow for you to milk!!!!!
 
It's just sick!
 
Funny thing, we don't go see Stravinsky with the local orchestra and then go home and demand a DVD!
 
Totally bizarre and so out of line it's not funny!


Edited by moshkito - December 26 2014 at 09:28
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2014 at 16:23
I think that Fripp's "no photos, no videos" policy is on the money.  His recording, played before the show in Chicago, had him encouraging us to use our memories and senses, rather than recording technology, to keep the concert memory fresh. 

Personally, I'm burned out at going to concerts and having the glowing screens of cell phones flashing back at me!  Very visually distracting.  

The Chicago show did require some concentration in order to hear all the nuances of the percussion and instrumental passages.  I did see the LTIA tour in Chicago in 1973, but Jamie Muir wasn't with the band, so I missed out on his amazing contributions on percussion.  Pat Mastelotto did a fantastic job with these very subtle passages, and I am glad that I listened and remembered as RF had urged! 

As far as concert DVDs....my guess is that something will show up by DGM.  Let's wait and see, Fripp is pretty savvy about the new marketing techniques for rock.  Porcupine Tree is one band that has done very well with the concert DVD model, and he has surely learned much from his interactions with that band.  

Happy Holidays, Chuck 




Edited by cstack3 - December 26 2014 at 16:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2014 at 12:26
Originally posted by puma puma wrote:

It's so simple. Just don't do it! Start your own band and tell everyone to film and photo the whole thing. Maybe you'll start a cool culture of a ton of fans actively sharing the experiences and enriching new and old fans alike. Maybe you'll end up with a bunch of people crowded in a room staring at gadgets and ignoring your music.
 
...
 
The Grateful Dead DID this and they made more money than most other bands!
 
It's up to Robert. If it is an ego thing, then his work will suffer after he departs. The same thing is happening right now with the sad state of the Zappa estate and its trustees. They don't know music, and fans  just want the solos released, so the star stays born and alive! This is also the sad state of my family's affairs, where the "star" is going to kill everything that will be left behind and the children will get nothing for it at all. As I said before, in every house and country there is a God and the children (or fan in this case) don't always mean anything! PERIOD!
 
This, is definitly what Robert is not interested in, but after he's gone, 10/20 years later, not everyone thinks the same thing, and times change.
 
Even though I would not purchase it all, it would be best for it all to be out there. And Robert should know that there are no "mistakes" and no such thing as "perfection" ... since each day is different, and it becomes nothing but a mind exercise that thinks one day is better than the other.
 
The show in Seattle was right after LA, and it was magnificent. And I, would find it hard to believe that anywhere else could have had it any better, so saying LA was better, than the Seattle show makes it hard to swallow. Well, we know that Tony had a cold ... but we didn't see the snot run down his bass guitar during the show, though I think his energy level was a bit low, but I doubt that anyone could see the music suffer on that account.


Edited by moshkito - December 28 2014 at 12:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2014 at 14:33
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Ozark Soundscape Ozark Soundscape wrote:

Fripp has absolutely earned his respect and success, but even if I knew I was the world's greatest guitarist, I would have the up most respect and thanks for my fans.


The (single) word you're looking for is utmost.


k
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2015 at 12:30

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

... I think that Fripp's "no photos, no videos" policy is on the money.  His recording, played before the show in Chicago, had him encouraging us to use our memories and senses, rather than recording technology, to keep the concert memory fresh.
...

As should be.

An experience is not something that you need to have a recording of. Like time with your favorite person, and memory!

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:


... The Chicago show did require some concentration in order to hear all the nuances of the percussion and instrumental passages....

I'm positive that it was the same in all the other shows. The Seattle show had my ol'e roomie saying how any other music sounded so bland by comparison!

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:


... As far as concert DVDs....my guess is that something will show up by DGM.  Let's wait and see, Fripp is pretty savvy about the new marketing techniques for rock.  Porcupine Tree is one band that has done very well with the concert DVD model, and he has surely learned much from his interactions with that band. 

There are things that need a DVD. Mostly because no one else will ever have any idea of what it is that you can experience, and find out what it means to so many of us. The folks in Montana and Dakotas, can not see a show by KC, and will never have that pleasure, and what we, in a way very ellitist btw, are saying is that ... too bad ... I got to experience it and you didn't. But a DVD, at that point would be as good as a CD for me, although I do not exactly need the visual to keep me going, specially when the camera work and directing is so bad and ridiculous, and a total waste of the music and its special moments! Almost everyone of those folks doing these shows, do not know what "directing" is, and will lose special moments, because they do not know the music, and switch visual to someone else, when another person is actually doing a solo. This happened, for example with Gong, when one of the camera folks was on Daevid, and he played up to it, and as soon as he got started the camera light went off and to someone else, taking the focus off the words and his expressions ... what a f**king waste! And I would have fired that director on the spot! And worse ... they had no idea how to film Magma!

Other examples:

There are other moments ... when you see something ... and it is good ... but it's missing a spark. This was the case with Nektar's DVD ... and I was sad, because I saw them in their glory days, and the energy and love for it was gone. It felt like it had to be done for a new audience, or a bunch of geriatric hippies left over ... and by the end, I was not enjoying it.

GONG dvd's are frustrating to the max ... horribly photographed and no sense of what the music is about anyway! I've always told Johnny Green (Gas) to stop hiring morons and get someone serious and I would do it for free ... get me on the plane ... but that lousy directing concept from MTV has been dead for 30 years!

Zappa ... 3 DVD's. Exhilerating, because you know the guy is very good conductor with his band and he knows what he is doing ... and some musicians are giving it back to him! But I bet he told some of the camera folks that you can't move beyond that spot and such, to prevent distractions that shouldn't be there!

KC ... I probably would have done this, as I would a serious concert by an orchestra. But, knowing the music has to be a serious requirement by the camera folks and director, and this is where things fail 99/100 times. A camera, nowadays, has enough lens capability to make closeups and not be intimidating or abusive, and these could be used to perfection to examine the ability of some of the folks in the band. The problem is, that you will have to , to split the screen so you can see 6 folks soloing together! Now ... I LIKE THAT CHALLENGE! Up yours Marty!

Hammill/VdGG ... Probably the least important grouping to create a DVD on, but a design of the concept of the shoot would be important without the MTV sequence of shots to help Peter bring out the band, and the band to bring out Peter. And his solo moments, on piano, for example, need to be shot very tight, carefully and with total respect, by not switching shots and distracting it from the piece itself.

all in all, ELP would have been a nice shoot for a DVD, except that they wasted it. The musicianship is a natural for the camera, except that it was destroyed by bad directing and lousy concept design. Genesis, would have been great during the costume days, but MTV was still asleep in those days, and we had not learned anything from Betamax and Deep Throat, yet!



Edited by moshkito - January 18 2015 at 12:34
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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