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Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26151
Posted: October 18 2014 at 03:44
Svetonio wrote:
richardh wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
^ As someone has already pointed out, Rollingstone was a mag whose editorial policy was directed to Rock, not to Prog. Actually, RollingStone was one of the hystorical "fortress" of Rock purists. As you know, Rock purists were / are not like Prog. On the contrary, they hated our beloved genre no less than e.g. the fans of Punk. So I consider this RollingStone's article as a "rehabilitation" of Prog. Get it?
(...) Prog suddenly made a comeback (especially in Scandinavia) (...)
...and also especially in Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, France, Spain, Portugal, USA, Mexico, Argentina, Peru and so on.
Prog has always been a wonderfully universal movement. You are right to mention a lot of other countries although imo USA largely was not as important as far as prog goes sadly although that's not to say there aren't good bands from there of course. I blame for RS for that.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: October 18 2014 at 11:59
richardh wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
richardh wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
^ As someone has already pointed out, Rollingstone was a mag whose editorial policy was directed to Rock, not to Prog. Actually, RollingStone was one of the hystorical "fortress" of Rock purists. As you know, Rock purists were / are not like Prog. On the contrary, they hated our beloved genre no less than e.g. the fans of Punk. So I consider this RollingStone's article as a "rehabilitation" of Prog. Get it?
(...) Prog suddenly made a comeback (especially in Scandinavia) (...)
...and also especially in Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, France, Spain, Portugal, USA, Mexico, Argentina, Peru and so on.
Prog has always been a wonderfully universal movement. You are right to mention a lot of other countries although imo USA largely was not as important as far as prog goes sadly although that's not to say there aren't good bands from there of course. I blame for RS for that.
How can youblame a Rockmagas RSforwhateverwashappeninginrelation to Prog? Itishard to understand,you must agree?
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20497
Posted: October 18 2014 at 12:23
^Seriously Svetonio, how can you not?
I understand that Serbia was clouded by the Iron Curtain for many years but the rest of the impressionable world was not. Mags like RS distorted musical tastes as well as musical trends and determined to the fashion conscious what was hip and what was not. RS is just as responsible for the decline of Prog a it was for the assent of New Wave. The magazine simply did make a difference to the world's as well America's musical landscape.
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20468
Posted: October 18 2014 at 12:49
twosteves wrote:
When I looked at it--for me the magazine was NEVER about music it was about popular culture, politics and it's award winning photos by the great Annie Leibowitz.
Absolutely correct and that is what several here are missing who have commented about it's lack of prog coverage over the years. It was never about prog rock but popular music for the most part when it did cover music and do reviews.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: October 18 2014 at 19:51
SteveG wrote:
^Seriously Svetonio, how can you not?
I understand that Serbia was clouded by the Iron Curtain for many years but the rest of the impressionable world was not. (...)
LOL it's funny how the common people in U.S. know just a little or nothing about the history of the continent from where their ancestors immigrated. Serbia as a part of Marshal Tito's Ex-Yugoslavia was never "clouded by the Iron Curtain".
On the contrary, my beloved country at that time was threatened by Soviet Union & the Warsaw Pact countries because Marshal Tito was perceived by them as a "revisionist", due to 1) Tito's conflict with Stalin in 1948, 2) our self-management socialism what was something unique in the world, 2) the policy of nonaligment, what together with a decent level of the human rights and, after all, a wealthy society for European standards at that time, was an unique system and far away from so called "the real socialism". For example, those two propaganda films about Yugoslavia (oh, excuse me, "advertising" is the right word!) are made in U.S. in 60s and 80s and both talk more than 1000s words about relationship with official Belgrade and White House at that time; as you maybe know, that kind of positive propaganda in favour of the countries of the Warsaw Pact was impossible in your country.
So, the copies of your Rolling Stone were sold here on newsstands altogether with British mags as Disc, Sounds, Melody Maker, NME and the German mag Bravo - which was actually the best European mag regarding the great colour pics & posters - prog rock bands including. Due to my poor English, I personally prefered Yugoslav mags; also, I loved to read about our domestic Prog and Rock music, what was, in Tito's Yugoslavia, considered as, say, a 'high art'; as such, it was strongly supported by the state, e.g. rock musicans who sold a lot of LPs and played gigs in many of new arenas and stadiums, they didn't pay taxes except a symbolic lump sum, etc.
Tito's Yugoslavia was a fantastic country of happy people; that's actually why Tito's Yugoslavia, ten years after his death, "must" be destroyed due to revenge by these fascists who were defeated in WW2 in Yugoslavia.
Visas for the countries of Western Europe we didn't have to have in our passport during Marshal Tito's Yugoslavia. Believe it or not, in late 70s & 80s, I went several times in London just for a weekend to buy new LPs, to drink beer at Soho's pubs and also to see some bands live. For example, in 1986 I went in London just to see Francis Bacon's exibition at old Tate Gallery and to see The Who (for second time) at Hyde Park where they played Quad. U.S. tourist visas were easily received, so I traveled with my red passport three times in NYC in 80s, as well as a tourist. For Soviet Union, we also had to have a visa for a tourist trip (sadly, just once time I've been in Moscow, as a tourist at Olympic games).
Gangster-socialism of nationalist Slobodan Milosević and NATO aggression on Serbia & Montenegro in 1999, what U.S. and your allies ( e.g. Oasis' fan Tony Bler) created in favor of Albanian UCK terrorists oganization in Kosovo, was something else. Nucleus of the UCK (engl. "Kosovo Liberation Army") were created long ago as a "child" of Sigurimi, Albania's secret police, who was a daughter company of the KGB; after the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, BND puts UCK under their control and armed them with weapons from ex-Warsaw pact countries until 1995, when UCK were start to be supported strongly by CIA. Now many of UCK fighters are in ISIS. It was that "smart" policy by your goverment(s) in Balkans; rather than to kill that nationalist and gangster Slobodan Milosević, you took care of terrorist organization in Kosovo "who fight against Milosevic's regime". Your actually the greatest allies in the Balkans, Serbian nation, were rejected by your goverment due to the Albanian lobby groups' ( with the bank acounts full of money from drugs ) activities in your Congress. Well, I understand that, it was / is "the rest of impressionable world".
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20497
Posted: October 18 2014 at 19:58
^Poor choice of words on my part, Svetonio. I know you were under Yugoslavia's curtain. What's your point? That you're more enlightened then the Soviets? Don't underestimate their smarts. Look where they are now and where Serbia is. And don't underestimate Americans. Just ask for clarifications before making your big speech, and remember that Americans have heard then all, from JFK to Gorbechov.
Try to impress someone else and good luck.
Edited by SteveG - October 18 2014 at 20:01
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: October 18 2014 at 20:13
Horizons wrote:
I'm going to devote the next hour to watching both of those videos as reading your text.
Or am I..
You don't need to watch them, nor I expect that from you. I posted them just to prove that SteveG's little story about Serbia (ex-Yugoslavia) as a country "behind the Iron Curtain" is in fact a false story and a silly argument in this discussion.
That Rolling Stone in its heydays was the Rock mag, as for example the Progarchives.com is the Prog site. So, if somebody from States, UK or People Republic of China was expected from the Rock magazine as RS to write equally about Prog, it was the same stupidity as to expect that the reviewers at Progarchives.com write about Born To Run as much as about Close To The Edge.
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
Posted: October 18 2014 at 20:50
Steve G is not that
uninformed, druze. Yugoslavia under Tito was, whether the people were happy or
not, a harsh one-party dictatorship. And rightly so, as Tito understood that if
he didn't keep his vitriolic and revenge-minded republics in line, serious
problems would occur. Apres moi le deluge (after me the flood), as soon as he
died, the system of revolving presidencies became revolving bitterness, as Serb
fascists, Croat fascists , Slovene fascists and Montenegrin fascists began
bickering. You may also remember that 70s Yugoslavia had the largest standing
army in Europe. I met a few Yugoslavs in Switzerland and when when I asked
whether they were Serb or Croat, they responded in fear "shhhh, the word
is Yugoslav". Uttering either nationality would get you a good stiff
beating at the hands of the Yugoslav police.
BTW, I did my law exam on
Yugoslavia in 1974, and have written numerous articles on the subject. In fact,
at one point before the civil war started, I suggested to evacuate all the
women and children, drop all the weapons the world could spare (not really
necessary as Yugoslavia was one of the world’s largest arms manufacturers), and
let the men all kill themselves. All my Croat, Serb, Macedonian and Albanian
friends cheered it as a great idea. There was a curtain of endless revenge over
Yugoslavia, a Yugoslav curtain not a Soviet one. Tito got it, no one else did.
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: October 18 2014 at 22:00
tszirmay wrote:
Steve G is not that
uninformed, druze. Yugoslavia under Tito was, whether the people were happy or
not, a harsh one-party dictatorship. (...)
SteveG is extremly uniformed as it is usual thing with a common Americans regarding that European, especially Balkans history. Tito's Yougoslavia, following the great experiment of self-managment socialism, actually was un-party society since 1952 when the Communist party was completely reformed and change the name in The League of Communists of Yugoslavia.
A dictatorship as it was in the Warsaw Pact countries, or Pinochet's dictatorship, or Franco's Spain, or dictatorship during the military goverment in Greece, there wasn't nothing like that in Tito's Yugoslavia. Self-management socialism was not a statism; it was quite opposite to statism. That centralized management of the economy as it was in the countries of the Warsaw Pact, and (or) as it was the case with above mentioned fascists goverments, was abandoned in Yugosalvia in 1950, two years after the break with Stalin. Also, unlikely of the Warsaw pact countries, both horizontal and vertical social mobility existed in former Yugosalavia. The media were free, except for those who wanted to celebrate the defeated fascist forces and that terrible, fascists system in Kingdom of Yugoslavia.
Private business initiatives also existed, and there was encouraged loans to launch industrial plants privately owned; what was forbidden, it is a speculative capital in a private property.
I'll stop here. This is now too much politics for the music forum. Also, I have nothing to discuss with anti-communists.
If somebody wanna be informed about "Serbia behind the Iron Curtain", there are a lot of both positive and negative articles at intermet about Yugoslavian self-management socialism due the fact that was an unique economics system in the World at that time.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: October 20 2014 at 14:37
^ Oh and in the second video from above, filmed in 80s, at 11:34 you can see a kid who sell the second-hand LPs on the street of my hometown and show in camera that Uriah Heep's Innocent Victim the album, isn't that sweet?
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Svetonio wrote:
