Generation gaps in progressive music

TODDLER wrote: ... Some people who lived through the Prog world of the 70's are snooty about music in general because that was deep rooted in our social environment in those times. They were a bit too detailed if you were to ask me. ...

There is nothing snooty about what we "saw". But there is a lack of understanding with younger folks when it comes to appreciating folks having gone through a war, and they lived in a time that had nothing to fight for ... except to decide if they want a Republican or Democrat in their bathroom!

If you take a look, for example, at Janssen's History of Art, just about all the major artistic scenes got started because of major events in the lives of people. major revolutions. Major life changes with the industrial revolutions. WW1. WW2 ... things that stood out and changed everyone's lives. Kids today, do not have that perspective, and consequently think that we do not know what we are talking about.

I, do not find them wrong ... even if I don't find them right ... and one day they will see the truth in these words, and how "art scenes" come around ... the rest is just pop music. Or just another solo!

I know the kids won't like it ... just like a thread on "dark music" ... which is an imaginary line somewhere about what is in the music or not. And they have no idea, that the devil is the smoothest operator and the darkest of them all, and they won't know they are in the grasp, until too late! It's the same thing with music ... it's just a favorite and they won't know the difference until the day they stop thinking of the arts as "favorite". I may like somethings, but I have a very healthy respect for things I do not like, because of the work. They do not have this respect in reverse!!!

One other bit ... they don't read, and are not capable of discussing things! The only thing they can accept is people kissing their buns and they kissing the other person's buns and agree on everything! Such a socialist point of view, it makes me sick!

TODDLER wrote: ... They found bands like Supertramp laughable. I believe in my heart..that allowing your soul to feel a hatred for a style of music based around the concept that it doesn't have enough art for your standards..is being "over the top" and very dismissive of other forms of talent existing in this world..but..that was an attitude planted like a seed within the Prog community during the 70's. ...

Incorrect in my book. It was an attitude that is based on an apathetic society that worships the top ten, and takes away from you the ability to like "choice" beyond the "standards" that everyone is supposed to know and like.

And this is the huge problem that a "database" is creating, by making us all minions that are supposed to like what everyone likes. This was one of the big principles that caused the "progressive" movement to start in the first place, even in pop music with The Beatles, and we still ignore it because history books make a poijt of leaving it behind, because their job is to make you another subordinate moron to the society we live in!

Wish some of you had lived in a dictatorship ... you might react angrily like I do. And I'm not the only country, or race, that went through that!

TODDLER wrote: ... That's not a very healthy attitude for the 70's Prog community to display to the younger generation of Prog fans. ...

Again, this is born out of an attitude that is based on favoritism, not appreciation for the arts. I, tend to dismiss these in the various threads and it gets a few folks upset. But the idea is not to get those folks upset, but get them to WAKE UP!

You know, as they say, life sometimes throws you a curveball, or a spitter ... and some of these folks are so ingrained in their favoritism, that they don't even know there are other points of view ... they will learn soon enough ... wait until they start changing diapers!

TODDLER wrote: ... and focus on the educational side to the music by absorbing all knowledge of every decade..like a school project/report.

I'm not a great fan of this. You must understand that I came from one of the very highest levels of literary world, with my father, and I wanted nothing to do with them, because their poop did not stink. I'm not going to be angry with him, but my joke still is ... in every house and every country there is a GOD ... and the children don't mean sh*t!

It's the same thing all over ... not just one place! And in some cases, the children are even sacrificed!

One of these days, these folks will know what a discussion like this is all about ... if they read it. It just shows the intelligence level when they can't read anything. I like reading these things, and other folks ideas ... it helps me validate mine!

moshkito wrote: [QUOTE=TODDLER] ... Some people who lived through the Prog world of the 70's are snooty about music in general because that was deep rooted in our social environment in those times. They were a bit too detailed if you were to ask me. ...

There is nothing snooty about what we "saw". But there is a lack of understanding with younger folks when it comes to appreciating folks having gone through a war, and they lived in a time that had nothing to fight for ... except to decide if they want a Republican or Democrat in their bathroom!

Incorrect in my book. It was an attitude that is based on an apathetic society that worships the top ten, and takes away from you the ability to like "choice" beyond the "standards" that everyone is supposed to know and like.

I had a different experience I suppose. My sister is most likely your age and I appreciated her introducing the Psychedelic music and Progressive Rock to me, but a majority of hippies/music fans around me acted as if there was only ONE flippin' way to play the "Sunshine Of Your Love" riff..even though these people were not musicians who had practiced since age 7 like myself and I found that insulting and snooty. Also they way..in general how people more directly connected to my sister's culture were on the "high horse' about technique applied to an instrument in general. They picked and commented about every detail and their attitudes were discouraging to many musicians in MY age group...which would have been kids 15 years of age in 1971. Who in God's name did these people think they were? They did nothing but discourage people younger than themselves and it had more to do with kids in my age group who had just stopped listening to The Monkees and the early Beatles which I'm sure they found laughable...yet I was classically trained by my father and didn't need to pay attention to their misinformed and lack of depth to real music. It pissed me off that they had no real knowledge on how to figure out a Steve Howe piece, yet they acted as if they did. They acted snooty about the fact that there were great musicians from their generation and that younger kids who had studied an instrument since age 7 were punks who should be disregarded.

surrealist wrote: I think a major dividing line came with the use of computer editing.  Once Pro Tools arrived (or similar) that was a game changer. ...

I think it was way before that. ELECTRICITY was the difference, and Tom Dowd (you gotta see that DVD ...it's very good!!!) would agree with me.

The game changer was that now, we could record things and have a copy of it. Before the music was only passed around by ear and a piece of paper. So, now we go back to the early years of the 20th century.

The ability to hear MORE is now possible, where before you could only hear what you got to see in front of you. Thus, the learning, and appreciation, not to mention education, of what music and its history was, took a completely different turn. It also helped define the new music when you can automatically say that Bartok, Stravinsky and so many others, did not want to do what everyone had already done! You got to factor that in.

PRO TOOLS, is not the game changer ... it is but the tool that has been, so far, the most productive in terms of recording and mastering things. For a beautiful example, check out the engineers and Klaus Schulze talk about an element in his piece on the Rheingold CD. This kind of stuff was very hard to do before, specially with live instruments. It enhances the ability of "electronics", not the musician himself/herself.

surrealist wrote: ... Can I say 99% of modern music prog and otherwise is "fixing" their released up on a computer? ...

All composers did that until it was first played and then probably even more if the King didn't like it! Ask Mozart (joke!!!!) about too many notes! That part is nothing new!

surrealist wrote: ... While multi tracking and punching was around for a long time, the earlier Prog bands still had to play it.  Once you have quantized and processed, you have quantized and processed.  My feeling is that computers have not done music any good... particularly Prog.  Prog musicians once were held in higher regard because the audience knew they had better musical skill sets that typical or even flashy rock musicians.  ...

You're suggesting that nothing like this was ever done before. IT WAS and then some, specially with opera when some folks levels had to be adjusted. The (old) famous RCA "Red label" was very famous for the quality of the recordings and it was all studio enhanced!

So, what is the difference?

...

I wanted to reply more, as your post is huge and also touches a lot of different things.