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Topic ClosedStarless and Bible Black: King Crimson

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Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 19:02
4 star album that I adore, just behind LTiA and Red of the 72 to 74 block, but then I'm fanboy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 19:05
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

4 star album that I adore, just behind LTiA and Red of the 72 to 74 block, but then I'm fanboy


ThisClap. Even if more "difficult" than either LTiA or Red, it does have one of the best openers in the history of music - the marvellous "The Great Deceiver", in my view Wetton's finest hour as a singer.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 19:10
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

4 star album that I adore, just behind LTiA and Red of the 72 to 74 block, but then I'm fanboy


ThisClap. Even if more "difficult" than either LTiA or Red, it does have one of the best openers in the history of music - the marvellous "The Great Deceiver", in my view Wetton's finest hour as a singer.

Agreed, one of the best songs on the album Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 20:30
Originally posted by Fearabsentia Fearabsentia wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

4 star album that I adore, just behind LTiA and Red of the 72 to 74 block, but then I'm fanboy


ThisClap. Even if more "difficult" than either LTiA or Red, it does have one of the best openers in the history of music - the marvellous "The Great Deceiver", in my view Wetton's finest hour as a singer.

Agreed, one of the best songs on the album Clap


hah.  From the viewpoint a relative non-fan of the group, appreciate them however I enjoy their peers much more,  I'd say one of the best and catchiest they did. Though the Belew albums have grown on me substantially the last few years. Probably because of the Talking Head influence and Belew himself.

Raff always loved this group more than I did...but that song... I am ALL over it and ready to crank that at full volume. Pure adrenaline
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 00:28
Originally posted by KingCrInuYasha KingCrInuYasha wrote:

4/5 stars for me.

I find the improvs to be hit and miss, but I can't condemn King Crimson for going that route if they can get some good stuff out of it. It's amazing that they formed "Trio" out of thin air like that. In fact, I think I'll try to find the Great Deceiver sets to see if they had any other neat improvs.

There's also some little stuff I like. I like the call and response between Cross' violin and Fripp's guitar in the first half of "Lament" and Bruford's destructo-march in the second half, the proto-80's-era sound of "The Great Deceiver" and the sheer beauty of "The Night Watch". "Fracture" is probably the one I have the most fond memories of, reminding me of the Pomeranian that my family used to own barking her little head off to Bruford's chime section. Don't get me wrong, "Fracture" itself holds up very well on its hold and is a tour-de-force of Fripp's guitar work, plus the rest of the band does a fantastic job complementing the piece.


About getting The Great Deceiver, you should just know that many of the improvs with different names are actually about the same piece of music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 00:36
This one is a tough nut to crack, probably my least listened to Crimso album from the 70's. I think it doesn't flow as well as their other albums, but still, when I'm in the mood, I think it can move mountains.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 12:18
OK, so I just gave this is a spin.  Still can't make too much of a fuss - Fracture is absolutely outstanding as always, the rest of it is OK but nothing I can get too excited about.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 12:55
Originally the 2 tracks.."Starless and Bible Black" and "Fracture" were taken from the concert in Amsterdam at the "Concertgebouw" 11/23/73. They are available on "The Nightwatch" cd. On S.A.B.B. there are not many overdubs as you might think. When listening to the "Nightwatch' cd...they sound identical. Not many Crimheads realized in 74' that they were listening to live tracks from Amsterdam Concertgebouw. 

"Starless and Bible Black" is an improv which revolves around the tri-tone interval and creates more of a dark soundscape than a cluster of rapid notes one might hear from the tri-tone interval  in Larks Tongues In Aspic Part I. "Fracture" creates the same vibe of darkness within the music , except it builds on a progressive pattern that is evident within the composition and is less improvised in that manner. 

Some of the instrumental patterns are to create a supernatural presence in a room. Even if you feel something of the unexplained that is personally laughable, the band is still vamping on a few chord structures that reveal eerie thoughts or visions to the mind. This interpretation is evident because Robert Fripp had an interest in the occult. The darkness of the album is attributed to his mindset or personal interests at that time. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 13:01
^Whenever you post something here the Prog Archives becomes a whole lot more interesting, TODDLER. Thanks for sharing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 13:03
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

One of my favs from KC that's more accessible when I'm not in the mood for the complexity of LTIA (as great as it is) and is a perfect set up for Red. What's your take on SaBB?
Oh, here, check this out, see what I think. ... and this (it's and old review, but I think it still captures my feelings about the album perfectly).

Edited by Dayvenkirq - October 28 2014 at 13:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 15:45
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^Whenever you post something here the Prog Archives becomes a whole lot more interesting, TODDLER. Thanks for sharing.

Wow..thank you. That never entered my mind. I always think that whatever I'm pointing out, is information that most P.A. members are already aware of. I've learned so much from others on this site. I greatly appreciate it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2014 at 21:57
I feel (probably just me) but i hear on this album Fripps facination for Mahavishnu Orchestra, ( or probably that was stronger/ more evident on Lizard) but i sence it here also, maybe its the guitar tone.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 08:15
Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

I feel (probably just me) but i hear on this album Fripps facination for Mahavishnu Orchestra, ( or probably that was stronger/ more evident on Lizard) but i sence it here also, maybe its the guitar tone.

It's very true that Fripp was highly influenced by Mahavishnu Orchestra. It can be read about in the Great Deceiver booklet included in the box set. In the case of Lizard...I hear more of an Avant-Garde British Jazz oriented approach that is in a complete separate world from the composition of Mahavishnu Orchestra. Lizard was more in the vain of Centipede who release an album produced by Fripp titled "Septober Energy"...and Centipede included on board Keith Tippet who recorded with K.C. on the early sessions. It's more combined with that approach musically than anything John McLaughlin would have written short of Exploration. A horn player or 2 from Soft Machine sat in for the Lizard sessions. Lizard is closer to sounding like the improvisation on a Soft Machine album and Centipede than Mahavishnu, but you are SPOT ON..with the Mahavishnu influence being obvious on S.A.B.B. 
 


Edited by TODDLER - October 30 2014 at 08:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 19:14
SABB is in my top three KC albums.The Great Deceiver-possibly my favorite KC song ever.
"Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal"   Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 01:40
^ Cigarettes, Ice-Cream, figurines of the Virgin Mary........
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 13:19
"Fracture" was a very strange idea that musically told a story. It's an arrangement around a repeated series of specific notes that fade and return throughout the piece. Fripp created this type of writing from various sources inspiring him to repeat some of the same sequences heard on Larks, Starless, and Red. He wrote several pieces to perform live that never turned up on the studio albums. If they had been recorded ...it would have been a great idea to include them as bonus tracks. I believe RED would have been an even better album if studio recordings of 'Journey To The Center Of The Cosmos' and "Doctor Diamond" were to be included as bonus tracks. 

I remember S.A.B.B. being released in America and King Crimson playing many colleges/universities across the states. I don't believe people in general were ready for King Crimson. Many people remembered the early music of K.C., but responded as if this new approach of schizoid style improvisation was over the top. This attitude developed mainly within a majority of YES fans. I thought it was a strange and rude reaction to S.A.B.B. in 74'. Whenever I played the album for friends who liked YES, they treated it like it was entertainment through pain. At the YES concerts in Philadelphia, people stood in line and tossed back and forth a debate over which band was more melodic being critical about King Crimson and dismissing them as noise makers. For some reason I feel that attitude reflected upon their success in the U.S. or their inability to reach more people with their music. Decades later..people began to grow appreciation for S.A.B.B., but in the beginning it wasn't that acceptable to most Progressive Rock fans.


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