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stonebeard View Drop Down
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2015 at 20:15
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:


Pallycock. Israel, like every other nation, has the right to defend itself against attacks, including rockets fired from the Gaza area. And I think that they do their best to minimize the number of innocent victims who are taken hostage as a human shield.


While I'm well aware that some Palestinian movements are nothing but terrorist, war-hungry, extremist factions (some using children as shields, it's documented), maybe Israel wouldn't have to defend itself if it left EVERY occupied territories and abandon the Israeli colons setting over the Palestinian borders.


Israel will always have to defend itself against that "faction" (I think that term implies it's not common practice to put mortars on school rooftops and in apartment complexes--civilian areas--which is the standard for Palastine) until Israel doesn't exist. The Palestinians play their game of war in a grotesque way, and I don't know why they get so much sympathy from Europe. They show time and time again that they're not serious about diplomacy, least of all in electing a group with a tenant of no Israel to power. Now I do not agree with the claiming of land by Israel, but when it comes to war and provocation, I will have a minimum of sympathy for Palestine until it elects moderates.
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2015 at 16:38
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by *frinspar* *frinspar* wrote:

Originally posted by manofmystery manofmystery wrote:

Didn't end the war in Iraq (The Iraq withdrawal was set under Bush. Obama added forces.) or Afghanistan
Waging an illegal and murderous drone war across the middle east in order to cross names off of his kill list (will spare everyone pictures, for now)
Further destabilizing the middle east by aiding rebels in Libya and Yemen
His foreign policy has been like something out of a Dick Cheney wet dream up to this point
Simply another criminal in chief spraying blood all over the globe while further limiting freedoms at home.  Nothing special or applause worthy about that.


Might regret opening this can of worms, but I'm incapable of self-restraint at times, and am curious to find out about what freedoms you have lost, or feel have been limited.


If he still identifies as libertarian, I'd imagine the list is pretty extensive, but probably could apply to modern American government rather than Obama in particular.

Yeah, he hasn't really done much at all to infringe on liberties/rights...just continued what was already going on. One can debate if that makes him "worse" than wubya or simply continuing the trend, perhaps once set in motion it can't even really be stopped? More I think about it, that's probably the case. 
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2015 at 17:31
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:


Pallycock. Israel, like every other nation, has the right to defend itself against attacks, including rockets fired from the Gaza area. And I think that they do their best to minimize the number of innocent victims who are taken hostage as a human shield.


While I'm well aware that some Palestinian movements are nothing but terrorist, war-hungry, extremist factions (some using children as shields, it's documented), maybe Israel wouldn't have to defend itself if it left EVERY occupied territories and abandon the Israeli colons setting over the Palestinian borders.


Israel will always have to defend itself against that "faction" (I think that term implies it's not common practice to put mortars on school rooftops and in apartment complexes--civilian areas--which is the standard for Palastine) until Israel doesn't exist. The Palestinians play their game of war in a grotesque way, and I don't know why they get so much sympathy from Europe. They show time and time again that they're not serious about diplomacy, least of all in electing a group with a tenant of no Israel to power. Now I do not agree with the claiming of land by Israel, but when it comes to war and provocation, I will have a minimum of sympathy for Palestine until it elects moderates.

While I don't think Netanyahu has done anything to deserve any support from anyone (a selfish, power hungry megalomaniac with a psycho for a wife), the summer's operation only really started when 13 Hamas militants sprang out of a tunnel right next to a kibbutz. It was later unveiled that there are tens of these underground tunnels passing through the border onto Israeli territory. No sane country wants to have the possibility of a massive wide scale terrorist attack which could leave hundreds dead. If going in was the only way to destroy these tunnels, then there was no other choice.

I can honestly say that Israel has zero interest in killing civilians. Therefore it does everything in its power to abstain from killing these civilians. Hamas fires their rockets from civilian homes and forces the families to stay in the house. Now there is a very harsh and messed up dilemma- either you kill Palestinian civilians or risk having your civilians killed from the almost 2,000 rockets fired at Israel's territory. Usually the Israeli government decided to strike these houses, even if the civilians did not get out. That's the inconvenient truth, but you can see that this isn't just a sick hunt after Palestinian lives, it drives me nuts to see people regard it that way. 

That month of the operation was one of the most difficult months in my life. The constant rocket barrages, the nights without sleep in some sort of duty or other, and ultimately losing a childhood friend who was killed inside Gaza. 

I have no problem if people disagree with Israel's policy. I consider myself fairly left-wing at the end of the day, and strongly support ending the military occupation and getting the living hell out of the West Bank (out of Israel's interests more than Palestinian interest honestly). With that people must acknowledge that this is one of the most outright complicated conflicts in modern history. I wish that both sides would be interested in a sovereign Palestinian state, but neither are (obviously the Palestinian people want an end to the military occupation, but the Palestinian Authority shows very little interest in establishing a state- a state which will probably collapse quickly from lack of funds and financial aid from Israel and other Islamic nations). 

Also, right across the border, hundred of thousands of people are dying from the single most brutal civil war in the 21st century, Lebanon has a terrorist organization running all of the Southern part of the country, Egypt is run but what is basically a dictator, and Turkey is killing thousands of Kurds fighting for their independence (the Kurds also being the worlds biggest minority)- weirdly this subjects don't seem to be as hot as the "war crimes" Israel commits against a terrorist-run Gaza. Denounce Israel as much as you want, but disregarding the heinous war crimes happening around us daily is pure hypocrisy. 


Edited by frippism - February 13 2015 at 17:34
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2015 at 21:26
Obama's middle east policy shows some good intent perhaps even though the emergence of ISIS could blow up what political capital he acquired there. But from an Indian perspective Dubya was the best US president we dealt with. Not only the most open to forging a fruitful relationship with India but also in terms of balancing the conflicting interests of India and Pakistan (US' traditional ally). It's an open secret that the Indian business community desperately wished for a Republican president to succeed Dubya in 2008 because they rightly apprehended that Obama would pull Pak back in the game. It in fact took a combination of short term and long term developments for Obama to press reset on India: China's importance acquiring threatening proportions, terrorism running out of control even within Pak and India electing Modi with a majority in the lower house to replace the by then politically hampered Manmohan Singh. I hate Dubya for Iraq and Afghanistan but the fact is there was no India - US relationship before his time. Only Kennedy tried and Nehru was too senile by then to reciprocate.
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Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 08:23
Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:


Pallycock. Israel, like every other nation, has the right to defend itself against attacks, including rockets fired from the Gaza area. And I think that they do their best to minimize the number of innocent victims who are taken hostage as a human shield.


While I'm well aware that some Palestinian movements are nothing but terrorist, war-hungry, extremist factions (some using children as shields, it's documented), maybe Israel wouldn't have to defend itself if it left EVERY occupied territories and abandon the Israeli colons setting over the Palestinian borders.


Israel will always have to defend itself against that "faction" (I think that term implies it's not common practice to put mortars on school rooftops and in apartment complexes--civilian areas--which is the standard for Palastine) until Israel doesn't exist. The Palestinians play their game of war in a grotesque way, and I don't know why they get so much sympathy from Europe. They show time and time again that they're not serious about diplomacy, least of all in electing a group with a tenant of no Israel to power. Now I do not agree with the claiming of land by Israel, but when it comes to war and provocation, I will have a minimum of sympathy for Palestine until it elects moderates.

While I don't think Netanyahu has done anything to deserve any support from anyone (a selfish, power hungry megalomaniac with a psycho for a wife), the summer's operation only really started when 13 Hamas militants sprang out of a tunnel right next to a kibbutz. It was later unveiled that there are tens of these underground tunnels passing through the border onto Israeli territory. No sane country wants to have the possibility of a massive wide scale terrorist attack which could leave hundreds dead. If going in was the only way to destroy these tunnels, then there was no other choice.

I can honestly say that Israel has zero interest in killing civilians. Therefore it does everything in its power to abstain from killing these civilians. Hamas fires their rockets from civilian homes and forces the families to stay in the house. Now there is a very harsh and messed up dilemma- either you kill Palestinian civilians or risk having your civilians killed from the almost 2,000 rockets fired at Israel's territory. Usually the Israeli government decided to strike these houses, even if the civilians did not get out. That's the inconvenient truth, but you can see that this isn't just a sick hunt after Palestinian lives, it drives me nuts to see people regard it that way. 

That month of the operation was one of the most difficult months in my life. The constant rocket barrages, the nights without sleep in some sort of duty or other, and ultimately losing a childhood friend who was killed inside Gaza. 

I have no problem if people disagree with Israel's policy. I consider myself fairly left-wing at the end of the day, and strongly support ending the military occupation and getting the living hell out of the West Bank (out of Israel's interests more than Palestinian interest honestly). With that people must acknowledge that this is one of the most outright complicated conflicts in modern history. I wish that both sides would be interested in a sovereign Palestinian state, but neither are (obviously the Palestinian people want an end to the military occupation, but the Palestinian Authority shows very little interest in establishing a state- a state which will probably collapse quickly from lack of funds and financial aid from Israel and other Islamic nations). 

Also, right across the border, hundred of thousands of people are dying from the single most brutal civil war in the 21st century, Lebanon has a terrorist organization running all of the Southern part of the country, Egypt is run but what is basically a dictator, and Turkey is killing thousands of Kurds fighting for their independence (the Kurds also being the worlds biggest minority)- weirdly this subjects don't seem to be as hot as the "war crimes" Israel commits against a terrorist-run Gaza. Denounce Israel as much as you want, but disregarding the heinous war crimes happening around us daily is pure hypocrisy. 


Clap excellent post.
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 09:06
Thanks :-)
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Points: 10837 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 12:19
I will agree with Frippism' post, but I must confess that I tend to react in a nearly agressive way when I hear/read Americans giving their two cents about this everlasting conflict.
In fact, I'm somewhat puzzled and irritated to see people ready to scream about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but keeping strangely mute when it comes to the situation in Tibet and in Ouigouristan - not to talk about the shameful absence of support towards the Kurds. I can't understand that.
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 12:57
What is your country doing to support the Kurds?^
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Points: 12681 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 13:16
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

What is your country doing to support the Kurds?^
 
His country prefers to bitch about Americans not doing enough, then bitch equally strenuously as to who we support. You see, it is quite difficult to accomplish any work with one's hands while spending an inordinate time in finger-pointing.
 
 
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 13:18
Amen^
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Points: 10837 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 13:58
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

What is your country doing to support the Kurds?^
 
His country prefers to bitch about Americans not doing enough, then bitch equally strenuously as to who we support. You see, it is quite difficult to accomplish any work with one's hands while spending an inordinate time in finger-pointing.
 
 


Do you really think I was talking only about the USA? Like it was the center of the world or like there was no European Union!

Do you think I agree with my own country's reddition to Chinese government? Do you think I enjoy the news of France doing business with China while Chinese workers are exploited, Tibet get colonized, Hong Kong is losing its democratic institutions and Taïwan fears for its independance?

Do you think I don't complain about France doing nothing for the Kurds? Do you think I'm expecting for an American military intervention in Kurdistan? Well, I don't. Frankly, I HOPE that Americans won't get into Middle East, but that Europeans will do, for once!
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Points: 12681 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 15:46
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Do you really think I was talking only about the USA? Like it was the center of the world or like there was no European Union!
 
Amusingly enough, I've always thought that the term "European Union" was used strictly in an oxymoronic sense, like saying "jumbo shrimp" or "military intelligence" (and I thank George Carlin for the paraphrase).
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2015 at 04:18

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/02/barack-obama-historic-agreement-iran-core-objectives

Quote Barack Obama says historic agreement with Iran meets core objectives

Barack Obama has praised a “historic agreement” over Iran’s nuclear programme, shortly after a tentative framework was announced that would lift international sanctions on Iran in exchange for new limits on Iran’s nuclear capabilities.

In remarks delivered from the Rose Garden at the White House, a defiant Obama characterised the deal as “the best option so far” to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. But Israel’s prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu was fiercely critical, telling Obama that his country “vehemently opposes” the deal.

“This has been a long time coming,” Obama said. “It is a good deal, a deal that meets our core objectives … If this framework leads to a final, comprehensive deal, it will make our country, our allies and our world safer.”

The framework, the culmination of marathon talks between world leaders in Lausanne, provides the basis for a more comprehensive nuclear agreement that is to be reached by 30 June.

Obama acknowledged the work was far from complete and that there would be “a robust debate in the weeks and months to come”. But he emphasised the need to resolve the matter through diplomacy, and said that pulling out now would risk another military conflict in the Middle East.

“If we can get this done, and Iran follows through on the framework that our negotiators agreed to, we will be able to resolve one of the greatest threats to our security, and to do so peacefully,” Obama said.


Clap Clap Clap Clap


 





Edited by Svetonio - April 04 2015 at 04:19
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Points: 10837 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2015 at 06:09
Yesterday, I saw some footages showing Iranian people celebrating these news in the streets. I guess some people never heard about Tchernobyl or Fukushima... Nuke
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2015 at 04:37
I don't think Netanyahu likes this deal. He is hell bent on attacking Iran, and Obama to his credit is not sucking up to Israel like many of his predecessors did. Remember Slick Willy proclaiming "I love Israel. I would take a bullet for Israel"

I've nothing against the people of Israel, but this particular PM needs his wings clipping imo, and the US is the only country that can do that.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2015 at 23:42
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/iran-victory-within-obamas-reach/ar-BBm4aIN?ocid=U219DHP Clap Thumbs Up
 
Quote US President Barack Obama has won the backing of a fresh clutch of senators for his Iran deal, raising the prospect he could yet dodge a humiliating legislative rebuke.

For months, Republicans and rebellious Democrats have looked on course to pass a resolution against the nuclear deal, a stinging rejection of a central Obama foreign policy goal.

But, with 15 Senate Democrats backing the deal in as many days -- including Senate minority leader Harry Reid and Michigan's Debbie Stabenow on Monday -- the White House may dodge a political bullet.

A 'no' vote next month would not be enough to scupper the whole nuclear agreement -- thanks to Obama's veto power (...) 
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