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Joined: January 04 2007
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Posted: April 03 2016 at 10:24
Guy Guden wrote:
Besides my love for almost all of the musicians mentioned here, I sometimes like to take my Zen Muzik Meditations into the realm of the Avant-Garde and up tempo. Laszlo Hortobagyi certainly can go madcap pagan, as well as many artists like Gabor Csupo and his wonderful Tone Casualties label.
Might I also suggest: Loop Guru
Amorphous Androgynous
West India Company ( side project of Blancmange )
Monsoon ( with Sheila Chandra )
Sheila Chandra ( without Monsoon )
cheers...
Thanks ... I didn't have enough of Chandra's work to say anything yet, and the others, in general, I am still on the listen for them.
Popol Vuh is a different discussion, at least until the days before Florian passed away. There is something else at play there that kinds throws off the discussion, and it might fit more into a "pagan" discussion (as in dancing/expression) than it does a meditative discussion, even though it is a very nice set of albums in the early days, that are perfect fits for meditations, and I'm not sure these can be considered "raga's" or not ... I have to investigate the difference, if any. I think one compliments the other, and that they might not necessarily be different. But I am not sure how to word this properly yet ... so please excuse me.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: December 30 2006
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Posted: April 03 2016 at 12:07
Fusion of jazz and Indian music has been a thing in the UK at least since John Mayer and Joe Harriott's group in the mid sixties. Arun Ghosh has recently been doing good things in this area. This is admittedly a bit off-topic, but I thought a few examples might be of interest.
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Posted: April 17 2016 at 14:54
Does anybody else know this album? I think Indo/Raga listeners would certainly get something out of it. Frank Perry creates these long droning, reverberating improvisations on a range of 400 year old Buddhist bells, gongs and chimes, the album contains two side-long pieces. I think it is absolutely amazing, definitely a kind of ambient, meditative and spiritual aura to the album. Despite dating from the early 80's, it sounds completely out of time.
Edited by Aussie-Byrd-Brother - April 17 2016 at 14:54
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Posted: April 17 2016 at 15:10
Love that Sonny Simmons and Moksha Samnyasis track.
As for "Deep Peace", it certainly "resonates" with me. I was listening to something similar the other day promoted as healing, and which was tuned at 432 hz.
Simon: Holy moly! I just sprayed my pants. How has this wonderful music managed to escape me up until now? Nevermind that, I'm rectifying this monumental over-lapse and hunting the album down asap.
Thank you oh enlightened one.
Michael: Never heard of that one but like Greg it resonates with me as well. Great for a peaceful morning where the sun ever so slightly peeps through the mist.
Greg: You have beautiful punctuation. Is this something that evolves with one's thirst for jazz...or is that the other way around? Kerouac went the other route and threw such buffoonery out the window.
I'm not sure how all of this reminded me of last year's African take on Terry Riley's classic 'In C', but it did. If nothing else, I think it will be of interest to most folks reading this thread:
Edited by Guldbamsen - April 18 2016 at 04:31
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
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Posted: April 18 2016 at 04:33
moshkito wrote:
I have not seen, honestly, a really good and well done ROCK MUSIC version of ragas and Bekker and Fertier were nice but you could not get past the scales in the notes at times, and one of the things that is important in the development of the "raga" is to allow the music to supersede the notes, and allow the feeling to take over, not the notes or chords. I like to say, close your eyes and play.
It looks to me as if you want Bekker and Fertier to be other kinds of artists than they actually are. Bekker is obviously closer to plain psychedelic rock with an eastern sounding twang - but the latter artist is fusing jazz, indian classical music, prog, raga, rock and more which is why he fits the genre nicely in a manner Stephan Micus or Jan Garbarek doesn't. Taking inspiration and translating ragas 'n such into some sort of ROCK MUSIC is intentional - and some make this work magnificently, but you have to accept the premise.
And seriously Codona is not "jazz-weird with Brazilian overtones". That's giving the na=Naná Vasconcelo much more credit than Co=Collin Walcott + do=Don Cherry in the middle was always more oriented towards the east. If they debuted in 1988 instead of 1978 they're world fusion would be labeled world music.
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Posted: April 20 2016 at 14:15
Guldbamsen wrote:
Simon: Holy moly! I just sprayed my pants. How has this wonderful music managed to escape me up until now? Nevermind that, I'm rectifying this monumental over-lapse and hunting the album down asap.
Thank you oh enlightened one.
Namaste David! Glad you liked it.
If you didn't find the album yet, you can get the CD from the Svart web shop for €5. Vinyl is a bit more expensive - but nice to have that groovy cover art in LP size
Joined: January 04 2007
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Posted: April 21 2016 at 11:54
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Does anybody else know this album? I think Indo/Raga listeners would certainly get something out of it. Frank Perry creates these long droning, reverberating improvisations on a range of 400 year old Buddhist bells, gongs and chimes, the album contains two side-long pieces. I think it is absolutely amazing, definitely a kind of ambient, meditative and spiritual aura to the album. Despite dating from the early 80's, it sounds completely out of time.
...
This is, by far, one of the very best meditation albums EVER done. However, this is really difficult for a beginner, as I found out, until I heard it enough times to begin feeling comfortable with "tripping" on it. It's really not a "trip" but a very relaxing jaunt through various chakras and inner details, that one would have to interpret themselves.
The 2nd album of his is also very good, but the power and strength of this first album is already ... spread out on the floor a bit ... making the album not as good, or as such an incredibly focused piece of work, for a meditation.
There was a thread here once on meditation, and some of this music, and there were a lot of these mentioned. Highly recommended, and hopefully we can find it.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: January 04 2007
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Posted: April 21 2016 at 12:12
Saperlipopette! wrote:
... Stephan Micus or Jan Garbarek doesn't. Taking inspiration and translating ragas 'n such into some sort of ROCK MUSIC is intentional - and some make this work magnificently, but you have to accept the premise.
...
And seriously Codona is not "jazz-weird with Brazilian overtones". That's giving the na=Naná Vasconcelo much more credit than Co=Collin Walcott + do=Don Cherry in the middle was always more oriented towards the east. If they debuted in 1988 instead of 1978 they're world fusion would be labeled world music.
...
Been onto ECM since 1971, and a very thorough listener to a lot of their musicians, specially all the foreign ones. It's no surprise to anyone here on this board that I mention Terje Rypdal, Jan Garbarek, Keith Jarrett (up to 1990), Egberto Gismonti, Charlie Haden, Eberhard Weber, Shakti, and so many others that it's hard to keep track of it all. Nana's album with Egberto is a treat! (Duas Vozes) (translates to Two Voices).
In some ways, Nana makes a lot of things sound very "Brazilian" for my tastes, and this might have been from the time I lived there ... it feels right, and sometimes, you can see many folks in the streets of the Carnaval who play exactly the same thing, and you are likely to find musicians doing that out in the middle of nowhere in Brazil, away from the city. It is, by "definition" a "raga" of sorts ... in a different country, and I consider what Egberto Gismonti did on his early days ... very similar ... here comes the guitar ... for 15 minutes and you just melt away ... pure raga thing.
"Raga", if we take the word directly, would mean that the music has to be "hindu" of some sort ... OK ... Garbarek and Khan ... (Ragas and Sagas) ... but in the end, that is like saying that there were no "ragas" in Africa, Latin America and other continents, and we know there were ... thus the consideration of the term is important.
"Raga" is a "musical meditation". Thus you could say, for example, that Frank Perry's first album fits, the Wolff and Hemmings first 3 albums also fit (Tibetan Bells), Paul Horn's in the pyramid also fits, Egberto Gismonti in the jungle (Solo and that time period) also fits, and I suppose that one could consider things like Jarrett in Koln a similar styled meditation or raga, within a different context.
I did not dislike the work of the two guys mentioned previously, but compared to a lot of these and detailed listening, I would endup almost telling you that "In a Gadda da Vida" was a better meditation! Stoned or otherwise! THAT, is not a comment about it being weak, or not good enough ... it's just a comment about an inner feeling and preference ... which would make me not vote for good meditation music ... when you compare this to Popol Vuh's first 2 albums, for example ...
Meditation is not talk. Meditation is a serious thing. It's not an idea, either. It's a solid, and well known state of mind ... and not all music fits ... because some of it "interferes" with the inner "quiet" required to help the mind slow down to the point where it allows the "flow" to come to you. Before that, you have stomach aches, and sometimes measurable discomforts, like your mind feels like it's falling and falling ... which is a sign that you are not getting past the barriers, to get to the inner silence.
Any music for that far inside ... is not "recognizeable" as "music" ... because in many ways, it isn't music ... it's something else for which there are no words in any language to describe it all and its inner work.
How far do you want to go? (.. is all we need to ask ourselves, I think! ... )
Edited by moshkito - April 21 2016 at 12:15
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Posted: April 21 2016 at 12:47
^That's all well and interesting enough, but Indo-Prog/Raga Rock - like Prog Rock is a b*****d child of many mothers and not nessecarely about meditation:
- Among the most notorious artists who participate to the original dialogue between proggy rock and Indian music we can notice many jazzy formed musicians influenced by "world" elements (the guitarists Volker Krieger, Steve Tibbetts, the clarinet player Tony Scott). They are often recognised to practice a fusion between jazz rock harmonies and raga's instrumentations (tabla, sitar.). Among them Collin Walcott and Alberto Marsicano were Ravi Shankar's pupils. The world of "raga" rock can also include psych folk / drone-y bands (Quintessance, Fit & Limo, Flute & Voice, GHQ, Pelt...) and which are largely impregnated by mysticism, sonic meditation and sitar.
I really can't stand those ECM-meditational "raga" albums by once great jazz players. They make me itch. If I'm up for something like that I'll reach for my Sharan Rani-albums instead. Hearing those early Paul Horn jazz recording after those good for nothing pyramid-albums was quite a revelation.
When you write about Codona it looks as if you're describing music from a memory that fails you - not from listening.
Edited by Saperlipopette! - April 21 2016 at 13:07
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Posted: April 21 2016 at 20:37
Saperlipopette! wrote:
...
When you write about Codona it looks as if you're describing music from a memory that fails you - not from listening.
Just haven't heard them in 30 some years ... and is on my agenda to get ... since there definitely is something worthwhile in there ... in general, for my tastes Walcott was always worth listening to. As were many others in those days at ECM.
Truly excellent music all around.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Simon: Holy moly! I just sprayed my pants. How has this wonderful music managed to escape me up until now? Nevermind that, I'm rectifying this monumental over-lapse and hunting the album down asap.
Thank you oh enlightened one.
Namaste David! Glad you liked it.
If you didn't find the album yet, you can get the CD from the Svart web shop for €5. Vinyl is a bit more expensive - but nice to have that groovy cover art in LP size
Vinyl it is then. Been on such a jazz binge lately, so an album like this slipping through my fingers is quite simply unacceptable. Reminds me of Pharoah Sanders and that whole psychedelic take on spiritual jazz. Kamasi Washington's album from last year did something similar. I guess I'm just a sucker for psych music, but I rather prefer Simmon's Moksha excursion. Has that Indian vibe to it that I really dig (a la Miles' Big Fun).
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
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Posted: April 22 2016 at 06:54
^ Jazz is a deep rabbit hole, once you've gone down it you never really come back...
That album is by far the mellowest thing I've heard Simmons do. He was a real tearaway in the sixties. An album he did with Prince Lasha (and the wicked rhythm team of Bobby Hutcherson, Buster Williams and Charles Moffett) in 1967, Firebirds, is my favourite thing of his and it's pretty fiery indeed. Worth a listen for sure (though not Indo at all).
Firebirds sounds very interesting. I read up on it and it's definitely something I'd like to include in my collection. Love Hutcherson - in fact I just listened to an album he performs on named 'Evolution' by Grachan Moncur lll - a personal fave of mine.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
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Posted: April 23 2016 at 11:03
^ Bobby Hutcherson is a big favourite of mine too, especially the albums he cut on Blue Note in the sixties. All of those are great, but my favourite is Dialogue.
Sounds like you already know a lot of it, but I think pretty much all of the avant-garde end of Blue Note's sixties output is is really worth hearing: Andrew Hill, Sam Rivers, Cecil Taylor, Eric Dolphy, Jackie McLean, and Grachan Moncur of course. And then there's the odd album from their more mainstream artists that leans further to leftfield - e.g. Freddie Hubbard's Breaking Point.
Don't know Hubbard's Breaking Point though, so onto my humongous list it goes.
Going back to the premise of the thread, I'd like to recommend the South African band Abstract Truth. Early 70s band with a foot firmly planted in the preceding decade - sprinkled lightly with Indian vibes, fairy dust and a healthy dosage of LSD:
Edited by Guldbamsen - April 23 2016 at 13:36
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
Joined: January 04 2007
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Posted: April 27 2016 at 15:18
Hi,
Was just reading an article by Peter Michael Hamel (Between) in Eurock (1980 I think) and he discusses the influences of a lot of African and Eastern music in Europe, and how some of those things were used in Western music.
Very interesting and it pretty much says that the major effort is in mixing the cultures, or interpret that culture's this in that within one's own context. And his discussion even goes way back to some great jazz greats.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Guy Guden wrote:
I just sprayed my pants. How has this wonderful music managed to escape me up until now? Nevermind that, I'm rectifying this monumental over-lapse and hunting the album down asap.
Namaste David! Glad you liked it.