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Topic ClosedTaurus - Spirit vs Lep Zep Stairway

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Poll Question: Taurus- Spirit vs Led Zep Stairway
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5 [62.50%]
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EddieRUKiddingVarese View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Taurus - Spirit vs Lep Zep Stairway
    Posted: September 23 2016 at 18:10
Now that the lawsuit is out of the way - lets have the real debate from those in the know.

Did Jimmy and Bob steal it, that is the question?

I feel sorry for Randy California as he was not around to make comment for the hearing............

Given the Plant/ Page history of ripping off tunes I'm surprised that got away with it, George Harrison would be very dark on this in his grave.......



There are many Led Zep rip off songs - here's one I wasn't aware of it's similar enough even the same name............ Holmes sued Page for copyright infringement in 2010 and settled out of court in January 2012- the Led Zep (cover) is now listed as inspired by Holmes...... 




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 18:30
Oy.

'Taurus' sounds nothing like Stairway.   Nothing.   The melody, chords, structure, none of it.   The chromatically descending chord progression heard in both songs is among the most common phrases in musical history.   Further though less important, the Spirit piece has no lyrics.

They are as far apart as any two songs are.   If it was a ripoff, than every song written under the category of popular music is plagiarism.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 18:47
^ not even the intro, think your fandom of Zep is clouding your judgement, it should be listed as Inspired by Randy CaliforniaThumbs Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 18:55
I am a lifelong Zep fanboy it's true, but in this case it is not a factor.   The songs are miles apart.   The fact that an acoustic guitar opens with a midtempo arpeggio does not indicate theft, and upon further listening, it is even clearer to me now that the two pieces are painfully unrelated, and that Spirit was hoping to cash in on the Sue Page & Plant bandwagon.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 19:02
There is the cash in aspect and the Dazed and Confused case probably helped the surviving Spirit copywrite holders in making there claim however, Led Zep toured with Spirit early on when Spirit performed Taurus on stage and Page was obviously influenced by what he heard and wasn't slow in using others music and tunes- this is just another example of a Led Zep rip off.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 19:13
I know that seems like clear evidence but, especially in music, it doesn't work that way.   Touring together is not evidence of theft.  

Are you aware that Page had been noodling with Stairway for quite awhile before they recorded it in 1970 for the following year?   Have you ever considered Sprit may've lifted parts of 'Taurus' from other sources?   And frankly how do we know who may have poached from Led Zeppelin's astounding new sound and body of work?   Professional music is about thievery, it's what guarantees a hit, keeps the industry pumping at that Rolling Stones-steady, brainwave and heartbeat-synced tempo. 

Like everyone, Zeppelin stole music, there is no doubt.   But in this case it is paranoid delusion.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 19:56
I voted the former. The first moment i heard taurus, I immediately thought it sounded just like stairway to heaven. I looked it up and found out that many others felt the same and then page says he doesn't even really know the song taurus is crazy when they toured with spirit. Besides, Ive never like Zep so mine is probably a bit biased LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 20:01
^^ Paranoid, the only one who has mentioned that is you, so Dazed and Confused is a Page original I guess?
Yes Page was noodling and there is evidence that Page was influenced by Taurus, was a good start for his Noodling. As an avid noodler myself I can hear enough to know where the intro came from.........


Edited by EddieRUKiddingVarese - September 23 2016 at 20:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 20:32
Listening now again and I'm sorry but that is a standard chord progression used for centuries, so much that I would classify it as public domain to the extent that it has been, and continues to be, utilized by countless composers and songwriters.   In fact it is a simple, even amateurish progression that first-year players learn, lift, discover, or "write", only to realize years later it is uninteresting and old hat.   Further, the Stairway riff is itself also based on the same tired old descending arp but with a much more satisfying over-melody and resolution.

And what of the final A-G-F-G riff ?: I've heard them accused of stealing that from Dylan's 'All Along the Watchtower'.   But any seasoned musician will tell you that's rubbish because that basic combination is so common that it is virtually untraceable as an original phrase and Dylan himself probably learned it years earlier along with tons of other stuff when he was learning to play a friggin guitar. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 20:46
I'm not a Zeppelin fan at all (so I'm not "tainted" in my opinion), but the "Stairway is rip-off" claim is bunk. As someone who's actually taken the time to noodle around on a guitar, messing around haphazardly with different chord progressions and riffs, I can guarantee you that passages from both "Taurus" and "Stairway" are not at all difficult to come up with independently. This isn't even getting into the fact that the "plagiarised" section in question is about 10 seconds long. Apparently we're to believe that 10 seconds of a guitar arpeggio inspired 8 minutes of music, spanning multiple distinct melodies heard nowhere in the "original" and a hard rock guitar solo? Sure.

Plus, a 2 minute instrumental ain't gonna write 7 verses of lyrics...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2016 at 22:56
Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

I'm not a Zeppelin fan at all (so I'm not "tainted" in my opinion), but the "Stairway is rip-off" claim is bunk. As someone who's actually taken the time to noodle around on a guitar, messing around haphazardly with different chord progressions and riffs, I can guarantee you that passages from both "Taurus" and "Stairway" are not at all difficult to come up with independently. This isn't even getting into the fact that the "plagiarised" section in question is about 10 seconds long. Apparently we're to believe that 10 seconds of a guitar arpeggio inspired 8 minutes of music, spanning multiple distinct melodies heard nowhere in the "original" and a hard rock guitar solo? Sure.

Plus, a 2 minute instrumental ain't gonna write 7 verses of lyrics...

However, the 10 seconds in question is the key theme to Stairway to Heaven, so that claim stands.......
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2016 at 10:30
Frankly, if there is a case of plagiarism to "investigate" in the career of LZ, it would be rather their enormous debt towards William Dixon than the 10 seconds or so more or less taken from Spirit.

It reminds me a bit Christian Vander from Magma claiming that Mike Oldfield stole the melody of "La Dawotsin" to create "Tubular Bells": the Magma song is 3 or 4 minutes long, while Tubular Bells lasts for 50 minutes...
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