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The Lost Clockwork Children of Brazil

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Poll Question: Choose a favourite or favourites of these three films
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [66.67%]
1 [33.33%]
0 [0.00%]
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Logan View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 01 2018 at 22:36
I wanted to do a short poll. I originally had more choices, but decided to keep it to these three.







Multiple choice enabled in case you want to vote for more than one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2018 at 09:18
Hi,

CITY OF LOST CHILDREN had some moments making fun of Monty Python/Gilliam in the film, and it was much more visible in DELICATESSEN. 

BRAZIL is a very nice film, and it is important in that the "dream" never dies, even though the body may be gone, which is the end of the film as you see it on video and in the old days in the theater. 

For most artists and dreamers, nothing is more important than the vision or the dream, and it must not die or be taken away. The society ends up looking ridiculous and murderous, instead, and I think this was visible in Terry Gilliam, in almost all of his films.

A CLOCKWORK ORANGE, seeing it today, is not as interesting and off its rocker as it was almost 50 years ago. I think the film suffers in that Stanley Kubrick may have been trying to satirize things, and instead he ends up with a serious film that ends up not being as interesting as the original premise. I find it a bit of a very uneven, and strange film. Even the use of music, is a satire in some cases, specially Bach ... 

THE CITY OF LOST DREAMS is a wonderful film, that really hits home the idea of thinking and dreams, and having them taken away by adults or the society. The imagery and insane sets of the film really make it what it is ... a visual delight for the premise of the film.

All 3 films have one thing in common ... how the younger person is usually attracted to someone/something that is dreamlike and sometimes not attainable ... and how that is presented is the issue. BRAZIL makes it a sort of "personal" story, CITY observes it from a child's eye, and CLOCKWORK, I think suggests that this kind of freedom leads to some anarchy that has to be controlled by the powers that be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2018 at 09:36
Thanks, Pedro. That is a great post.

Delicatessen is one of my favourite films, by the way. There are plenty of similarities between Jeunet's work and Gilliam's. Tim Burton is another that evokes Gilliam. Just recommendation if you haven't seen it that I was tempted to include, The Bothersome Man directed by Jens Lien.

And for those who have not seen O Lucky Man, which also was on my original list before I shortened it, I would recommend it to those who like A Clockwork Orange (and If... too). It also relates to, as you so well put it, "how the younger person is usually attracted to someone/something that is dreamlike and sometimes not attainable". Hi-Rise, albeit different, is a modern film that I would also recommend to those who enjoy such movies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2018 at 09:08
Hi,

I like these polls you are creating. I really do.

The one thing that has stuck for me, is how these films are so different being seen with today's eyes, as opposed to yesterday's eyes. 

In some ways, I'm not as impressed, but at the same time, it is hard to not notice how different they were from the mainstream films, specially the Hollywood variety. And, of course, the sad side of it for Hollywood, is that they left behind all the folks from the Actor's Studio including the incredible number of writers, and decided to simply go for the money and the "entertainment" films, which, sadly, has hurt in a really big way the American Theater scenes, and their value.

As a hard/harsh example, many folks may know Sam Shepard as an actor, but few know that he was a playwright as well and put on many of his plays, and stories even go so far as he would be playing drums with a band at the entrance to the off-off Broadway theater ... and we're not counting the ping pong balls (one play washes the whole stage and theater with it!) ... 

His bio alone, on the link, is a veritable who's who of theater and the spoken/stage arts ... and this is the part that is missing in the work of so many great actors and folks out there, instead of some famous ones. 

Stanley Kubrick, in some ways, was a "bad boy" that liked to undo some "myths" about film and the attitudes that many watchers took with them, specially the well known art film directors of the time, whose main element was the shock or surprise and the reversal of any political/social idea, and this was quite visible in Godard, Fellini, Bunuel and many others, and it is something that we do not find in a lot of film today at all ... and it feels very strange when ... a few years ago, someone asked me why I did not review this or that film. Why should I? 199 folks already did! What else could I say?

In the Portland Foreign Film Festival, when I was involved in the 90's before I lost my right eye to surgery (only see half way), I was always talking and writing that folks should not see the English and American films ... why? They always showed up in video ... and the films from Madagascar, South Africa, and Estonia, no one will ever see them again!

It's worse today! And no directors are standing up, or at least I can not find the films, since I now have to search for them on the Internet and free sites are few and far in between. I'm a senior and on retirement income, and I can't even afford Netfudingflix, not to mention that a few of the other sites do not show foreign films either ... except some anime ... whooopeeedoooo!

Marty Scorcese had a web site that had a large list of foreign films, ten years ago, but that has been closed down also ... it was an excellent historical site for many films, but still lacked Bunuel (his Mexican films and a lot of the Spanish films can't even be found!), Fellini (early stuff), Bergman (only the hits!), etc. But at least it had a large Japanese contingent of films, something he must be very well adjusted to since he helped Akira Kurosawa many times and even produced a couple of his films. But, today, he's too famous to do anything for the film history ... and its importance in the value of public ... watching of art films, something that today is completely hidden in the media ... it's almost like we're just a bunch of fudd-daddies talking slobber when discussing these films.

Enough ranting! (hehehe)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2018 at 09:30
Hi,

(back on topic!)

One of the important things in those 3 films, is how the camera is used. 

There is a large "abuse" to how the camera sees things, from a tripod to a handheld camera in those days, when it was ... held by a hand, that did not have counter weights to keep it steady. And the close up got a completely different look that was, in many ways, closer to the English theatrical "aside", than it was a part of the story in the film, something that violates the fourth wall in theater and film, and is well used anywhere except in English Theater, which perfected it.

BRAZIL, did not exactly have "asides" but it was full of moments when the main character takes a turn, or a step, that does not appear to be staged or directed, and I think that this was Jonathan Price using his ability to implement the adlib so easily, something that we know Terry Gilliam allowed Robin Williams to go free in both of his films, and credit would go to Robin Williams for staying in character in New York, and then going crazy as "Re di Tutto". In his later films this is not as visible anymore, and I think that it is the quality of the actors that is not as visible as before. The folks he used in the earlier days, were better suited for free form work, whereas in the past 10 years, no actors he has chosen have this ability, since they have been groomed, strictly, by the film camera, and not a theatrical design of their performance.

The close ups, in Kubrick, are almost all a character's true personal feelings. When it is more external, the camera has a tendency to step out. This, seeing a couple of his films 30 years later, ends up creating a sort of thought that the observer, really does not care ... and the only exception to this rule would be Jack Nicholson, that I think was given a free reign, because what he was doing goofing around, was way better than the script itself, even if some parts of the script are included, which Jack is a strong/good enough actor to include and make use of.

In Jeunet's 2 main films, this is a bit more hidden, and seeing one of the adults kinda talk to the camera as if he were talking to a child, is a bit ... not scary, but makes you feel uncomfortable at times. And you get the idea and feeling of what this adult, the representative of some social order, is really trying to do to the child ... how about this is a comment about the very audiences in "entertainment" films? Then, all of a sudden this takes a lot more depth and it becomes scary! Admonished for not enjoying the crap that the social milieu (the media) tells you is the valuable movie to watch because it has already ripped up more than half a billion dollars, and Roger Waters is getting too old (and rich!) to even fight it, now!

But, in one of the most breathtaking shots, is Gilliam's "Munchhausen" film ... when they are on the stage and the actor turns left and they are on the desert ... in one take/shot, your imagination switches to somewhere else, something that American audiences are not used to, and Paul Lazarus (a professor at UCSB in screenwriting - he had written for Stanley Kramer) always specified that we should not jerk the audience's mind with our ideas, and guess what some of these directors were doing? 

This was one of the things that the "new wave" and other film scenes, were doing ... and they were quite visible and valuable as an artistic movement and development at the time. I still see them as important, but find it scary that most film go'ers, like a lot of music listeners here, do not see or can relate to the historical side of many of these arts and how they helped and affected so many others in the arts ... and rock music, was very late behind theater, and film.

These films, for me, merely make it clear what the theater and arts "over there" were doing, that we were not aware of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2018 at 10:33
A Clockwork Orange for me. The other two feel too chaotic and weird for their own sake.

I do, however, quite enjoy the City of the Lost Children video game, which is a lot more slow-paced and coherent than the film.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2019 at 13:45
Just a little bump because I think this complements the Gilliam poll.

By the way, originally I was going to add Joel and Ethan Coen, Tim Burton, Paul Thomas Anderson, and Wes Anderson films to the list (plus some others).

Edited by Logan - January 30 2019 at 16:25
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