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The beginning of prog

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Spaciousmind View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2020 at 14:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2020 at 14:21
^ I wonder if he's listening to Mike Oldfield's "Piltdown Man" Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woon Deadn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2020 at 14:23
I am not going to be original by saying that The Beatles' Yesterday was one of the cornerstones. You may easily see why. It was not your typical rock, jazz, blues, whatever ballad of those days. Neither in its lyrics, nor in its music. 

I tend to think of it hugely broadly. Once upon a time like four months ago I have even posted somewhere in the forum a long-lasting commentary including lots of old Soviet songs in Russian that I had thought were somewhat proto-proto-proto, you know. Later on I'd realize that it was probably too much...  

But, well, unexpected or unusual syncopations, untrivial time meters, surprising changes within the song, lyrics that seemed odd by the standards of the time and style - they all happened since the beginning of the XX century. 

Progressive rock is the legal, rational, true child of the twentieth century. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2020 at 14:27
Paul, it reminds me of "I'm a Neanderthal Man" Hotlegs or 10cc I think.

BTW.. that song should be in the Guinness Book of World Records for it's varied lyrics or lack off! 


Edited by Spaciousmind - October 06 2020 at 15:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2020 at 15:27
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by A Crimson Mellotron A Crimson Mellotron wrote:

It began with Bela Bartok - he's the grandfather of prog! Big smile
Oh yes, who could forget the Hungarian prog trio of Emersonik, Lak & Bartok. Tongue

you may not know but Pictures at an Exhibition was composed by Mussorgsky, Emerson, Lake and Palmer Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2020 at 15:34
Probably Steven Wilson I guess, everyone else was just messing about until he properly made sense of it and made it what it should be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2020 at 07:44
Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

Paul, it reminds me of "I'm a Neanderthal Man" Hotlegs or 10cc I think.

BTW.. that song should be in the Guinness Book of World Records for it's varied lyrics or lack off! 

Hi,

Hotlegs ... and yes I need that album ... and it has some neat stuff in it too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2020 at 08:25
How about this hot take: Prog started with Dave Brubeck, not Miles Davis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2020 at 10:26
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Probably Steven Wilson I guess, everyone else was just messing about until he properly made sense of it and made it what it should be.
ClapLOL
Mr Wilson is prog's latest genius. We'll get a new one soon, I expect, since he's moved to disco (though his poppy stuff's quite cool too).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 17:14
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

How about this hot take: Prog started with Dave Brubeck, not Miles Davis.

he was only the 'middle man'

Mozart >>> Brubeck >>> Emerson Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2020 at 01:01
Wouldn't the actual beginning technically be when the first caveman accidentally hit the rock with a stick in 3/4 or 5/4 instead of 4/4?

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2020 at 08:04
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Wouldn't the actual beginning technically be when the first caveman accidentally hit the rock with a stick in 3/4 or 5/4 instead of 4/4?
Yes but people will still argue here that St Pepper came before that.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2020 at 11:52
Quote
Wouldn't the actual beginning technically be when the first caveman accidentally hit the rock with a stick in 3/4 or 5/4 instead of 4/4?
LOL
"Prog rock" gets a whole new meaning. LOL!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2020 at 01:15
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Wouldn't the actual beginning technically be when the first caveman accidentally hit the rock with a stick in 3/4 or 5/4 instead of 4/4?
Yes but people will still argue here that St Pepper came before that.....

Were the cavemen proto prog, pre-prog? Where is the line?! WinkLOL
 

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Quote
Wouldn't the actual beginning technically be when the first caveman accidentally hit the rock with a stick in 3/4 or 5/4 instead of 4/4?
LOL
"Prog rock" gets a whole new meaning. LOL!


See? This guy gets it! LOL

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ronstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2020 at 02:33
There's no such thing as Prog, it's just a label that we apply to stuff that fits the concept for us individually or by consensus. Pink Floyd's 1967 'Piper at The Gates of Dawn' was radically different from anything else at the time, but it didn't come out of thin air The early to mid sixties was an explosion of music, unfettered by limitation, possibly for the first time in history. Any and every genre was drawn into the mix and what came out was various blends of those influences. What helped it to happen was that the cord companies would sign anyone and everyone because they thought they could make money, not realising what they were enabling and unleashing, not least because they had no understanding of the music, so couldn't judge good, bad or indifferent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2020 at 03:11
Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

There's no such thing as Prog, it's just a label that we apply to stuff that fits the concept for us individually or by consensus. Pink Floyd's 1967 'Piper at The Gates of Dawn' was radically different from anything else at the time, but it didn't come out of thin air The early to mid sixties was an explosion of music, unfettered by limitation, possibly for the first time in history. Any and every genre was drawn into the mix and what came out was various blends of those influences. What helped it to happen was that the cord companies would sign anyone and everyone because they thought they could make money, not realising what they were enabling and unleashing, not least because they had no understanding of the music, so couldn't judge good, bad or indifferent.

Welcome to rational philosophy. Math is also a cognitive abstraction used to quantify relationships and relativity of movement observed from one self to another. Time is another cognitive abstraction used to quantify that movement. These things don't exist outside of man, they are a product of his conscious awareness to better map and navigate his environment relative to other selves. Remove man and these things have no value and you can't rationally argue they exist in the first place, because the premise they do or do not exist regardless requires a conscious observer first and foremost for that fallacy to have an efficacy in the first place...

...Just like music labels and sub genres derived from such.

Welcome to PA!


Edited by Frenetic Zetetic - October 16 2020 at 03:13

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ronstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2020 at 03:15
[/QUOTE]


Welcome to PA!
[/QUOTE]

Thanks, New to the forum but a long time user of the site. I'll try not to be too controversial Wink 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2020 at 09:43
^ Welcome, and don't hesitate to be controversial, it can lead to interesting discussions.

And, let's be happy that the caveman had several rocks at their disposal, otherwise prog could have been very monolithic...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProfPanglos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2020 at 21:08
Stockhausen deserves mention in this thread, in my opinion.
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