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Chelsea Wolfe for Crossover

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Logan View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 31 2023 at 11:50
This is not a proper bio, but if this is added then I will write something better. If accepted I request that I be permitted and given notice of acceptance so that I can do the addition myself.

Chelsea Wolfe (born November 14, 1983), not to be confused with the competitive American BMX racer of the same name, is a singer-songwriter and musician who was born and raised in the state of California in the United States of America. Her work, which can be quite experimental, incorporates gothic rock, doom metal, folk music and can have ethereal wave, darkwave, dark folk, industrial, as well as neo-folk and psychedelic qualities. She is quite eclectic across her albums.

Her first album, Mistake in Parting, was released in 2006. It was more on the alternative rock with goth rock qualities side.

The period I know well for her music is 2011 to 2017, with Ἀποκάλυψις (aka Apokalypsis) (2011), Pain is Beauty (2013), Abyss (2015) and Hiss Spin (2107) which has post-metal and doom metal qualities. Those are the albums that I am considering.

This is something of an out of the usual Prog box suggestion (it's not The Flower Kings), and she would primarily be associated, methinks with Gothic Rock, Darkwave and Ethereal Wave, but I definitely associate her with a great woman in Crossover, the amazing Anna von Hausswolff. There are also some similarities to Swans music and she has similarities to Dead Can Dance music, some Current 93, Coil, some Nine Inch Nails, Susanne Sundfor....

Here is the bandcamp page: https://chelseawolfe.bandcamp.com
The rate your music page: https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/chelsea-wolfe

Here are the albums I considered:









And she can really rock. In or out of PA, awesome stuff I think.

Edited by Logan - May 31 2023 at 12:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2023 at 11:53
Wonderful artist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2023 at 11:57
ok, noted. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2023 at 15:09
I don't have much to say. She's on my to investigate further list. But what I've heard makes sense (all of Abyss and a few other, later songs) for PA inclusion. Progressive and "heavy", hypnotic sort of industrial "gothic rock". And more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2023 at 17:55
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Wonderful artist.


Absolutely.

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

ok, noted. Smile


Thanks.

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

I don't have much to say. She's on my to investigate further list. But what I've heard makes sense (all of Abyss and a few other, later songs) for PA inclusion. Progressive and "heavy", hypnotic sort of industrial "gothic rock". And more.


Yep, I think she'd be a good addition with various precedents. I hope the evaluation goes quite smoothly and I can be adding her to these fine archives ere too long (hopefully if accepted this thread will be updated). I might well write some reviews after that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2023 at 17:31
Hey what's the status on this one? If it goes through I'd like to try to add Darkher here, too!

It appears to have been cleared at Progfreak.


Edited by bardberic - June 21 2023 at 17:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2023 at 18:20
I get a bit nervous when someone is waiting to see if an artist is cleared as a precedent for suggesting another, . It reminds me of those kinds of if this then this whataboutery/ whatiffery posts that used to be quite common and often annoying when someone would suggest someone a bit, or more than a bit, out of the box and someone would respond with a and then after this gets in, what about this, and this, and this, soon we'll have Lady Gaga in, and what about Nickleback type of slippery slope, thin end of the wedge absurdities. While it is true that we evaluate each act on its own merits, of course we do consider what has been accepted. Some have said that we should never do if X is here then Y type suggestions, but we think in those associative terms anyway. The what if ones that really annoyed to epic facepalm levels were the ones that were not even at all good comparisons (not musically that similar).

{EDIT: I see from Necrotica's post below that Darkher is already in, which I support, and general sentiments hold true.}

Speaking of anyway... I have thought that Chelsea Wolfe needs one more vote to be cleared. I expect that this topic likely will be updated when/if cleared partially to give me a heads up so I can start on the addition.

Edited by Logan - June 21 2023 at 18:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2023 at 18:27
Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Hey what's the status on this one? If it goes through I'd like to try to add Darkher here, too!

It appears to have been cleared at Progfreak.

Darkher's already on the site! I was the one who added her LOL (actually, it might have been Cristi who added her, I'm trying to remember... but I at least did the bio and discog Smile)



Edited by Necrotica - June 21 2023 at 18:34
Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground
Why oh why, there is no light
And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2023 at 19:33
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Hey what's the status on this one? If it goes through I'd like to try to add Darkher here, too!

It appears to have been cleared at Progfreak.



Darkher's already on the site! I was the one who added her LOL (actually, it might have been Cristi who added her, I'm trying to remember... but I at least did the bio and discog Smile)




Oh so she is, isn't she Well good to know - I just rated her new-ish album since I own a copy of it

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I get a bit nervous when someone is waiting to see if an artist is cleared as a precedent for suggesting another, . It reminds me of those kinds of if this then this whataboutery/ whatiffery posts that used to be quite common and often annoying when someone would suggest someone a bit, or more than a bit, out of the box and someone would respond with a and then after this gets in, what about this, and this, and this, soon we'll have Lady Gaga in, and what about Nickleback type of slippery slope, thin end of the wedge absurdities. While it is true that we evaluate each act on its own merits, of course we do consider what has been accepted. Some have said that we should never do if X is here then Y type suggestions, but we think in those associative terms anyway. The what if ones that really annoyed to epic facepalm levels were the ones that were not even at all good comparisons (not musically that similar).

{EDIT: I see from Necrotica's post below that Darkher is already in, which I support, and general sentiments hold true.}

Speaking of anyway... I have thought that Chelsea Wolfe needs one more vote to be cleared. I expect that this topic likely will be updated when/if cleared partially to give me a heads up so I can start on the addition.


No you have it wrong. This isn't me waiting for Chelsea's approval so I can use it as a a "precedent," per se, such that if she added then Darkher should be, too. It's more so me seeing what is tolerated on this site in general. Sure, these artists share many similarities, but it never occurred to me that they should be on this site, so seeing Chelsea Wolfe here reminded me about Darkher. Anyway, I'm working on Avenged Sevenfold, Avatar, Boris, and Ichiko Aoba right now, so Darkher wasn't even a priority hence the so-called "wait."


Edited by bardberic - June 21 2023 at 19:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2023 at 19:54
Sorry bardberic, I knew what you meant, but expressed what I thought would be a humorous kind of anecdote very badly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2023 at 10:28
Thanks to Greg (Logan) I was introduced to the music of Chelsea Wolfe and these last months I explored most of her albums. A wonderful artist, indeed, but personally I have difficulty to consider her music to be progressive rock. Original, alternative, good... yes, but progressive, honestly no. Hiss Spun has some Post Rock qualities (that I like very much!) but is "post rock" a sub-genre of rock or of progressive rock? I'd think the former (as progressive rock would be), but here, in the PA logic, we tend to think the latter...
That said, I wouldn't mind if she was included in the PA database, first of all because I don't care that much what gets in or not, but also because to me it is more interesting to get in touch with music that I/we - as prog fans - could like rather then to consider its genre label. I was very surprised to see artists/groups like Kate Bush, Laurie Anderson, Flairck... (a.o.) here on PA - I would have never associated them to progressive rock (and still don't). However, these artists can be of interest to progressive rock fans... But maybe, some day, PA should become AA (Alternative rock Archives) or just RA (Rock Archives), because more we consider prog rock to be an overarching genre, instead of a subgenre of rock, more we can put under its umbrella. This would not be my approach, but you - those who decide on inclusion or not of artists/bands - do what you want.


Edited by suitkees - June 22 2023 at 10:34

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2023 at 12:38
I don't consider her to be Prog proper as genre, nor would I describe her music as Prog, but for me she has enough qualities to link her to various artists and music in PA to make her very considerable. I do think she is making progressive rock of a sort (a kind of art rock). Long ago PA moved from narrower ideas of Prog, and beyond what would often be considered Prog genre, and for the continued vibrancy of this site, I think it has to expand. I could be wrong, but I think this site is practically better off having a wide umbrella. Imagine if all we got suggested these days were acts like The Flower Kings (nothing against The Flower Kings), maybe I'm being a bit too silly there. I am someone who prefers a site that is more encompassing -- for some Prog doesn't much beyond classic sounding symphonic Prog acts and their derivatives. I take doing PP and PR evaluations seriously, but I don't really care that much about what is in and out of PA as long as I can discuss such music, and I can, at the forums here (ultimately I'm here for the forum).

Suffice to say, I think that Chelsea Wolfe would not be out of place in the Crossover Prog category, and even if not Prog (genre), could be describes a s a kind of progressive and/or art rock that is suitable to the category. But that's not my call, and ultimately I'll be fine if she is included or not (would save me some hours in preparing the addition if not accepted).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2023 at 12:59


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - June 22 2023 at 12:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2023 at 19:07
^ Sometimes I think I may be the last true human alive here. The site has been taken over by body snatchers and robots.

I am happy to have added the wonderful Chelsea Wolfe to Crossover (and to me she fits this split from art rock sub well). I have only added four key albums (my faves) so far, and will get down to others later.

https://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=12533

Edited by Logan - August 08 2023 at 19:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2023 at 19:09
Sweet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2023 at 23:38
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Imagine if all we got suggested these days were acts like The Flower Kings


I would develop lactose intolerance and/or diabetes.


Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Suffice to say, I think that Chelsea Wolfe would not be out of place in the Crossover Prog category, and even if not Prog (genre), could be describes a s a kind of progressive and/or art rock that is suitable to the category. But that's not my call, and ultimately I'll be fine if she is included or not (would save me some hours in preparing the addition if not accepted).


Congratulations on her admission; her inclusion - like that of Tori Amos, Björk and Nine Inch Nails - has the potential to make me reevaluate my definition of progressive rock and where it can go in the 21st century. I'm excited to have my expectations challenged. I'm not terribly familiar with her work other than her guest spot on a Russian Circles track and the collab with Converge, and have never really heard her name spoken in prog circles. Where would you recommend I start with her discography?

Edited by Gordy - August 08 2023 at 23:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2023 at 00:34
^ Prog Archives is in the only Prog circle I frequent (the seventh circle of hell?) ;) It's not your grandma's Prog nor a purists perception of Prog methinks. Whether I think of it as Prog or not has no bearings on my appreciation, but to me it has enough similarities with various others to make her admissible. And for me it is progressive music, but not traditionally Prog. I would start with any of those albums I linked to in the OP. I think you might really like Abyss. Pain Is Beauty is the one that I have played the most. If it were me, I would just play music from all those four albums at first and see what appeals most to me. Hope you enjoy music by her. I would think you would.

I'm actually much more interested in music that is more on the peripheries of progressive rock than traditional Prog generally. Prog is such a nebulous and amorphous thing, and I often find music that tries to be Prog to be kind of cringy and ughh. I have a big progressive music umbrella that includes a lot of music I relate to art rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2023 at 10:30
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ Prog Archives is in the only Prog circle I frequent (the seventh circle of hell?) ;) It's not your grandma's Prog nor a purists perception of Prog methinks. Whether I think of it as Prog or not has no bearings on my appreciation, but to me it has enough similarities with various others to make her admissible. And for me it is progressive music, but not traditionally Prog. I would start with any of those albums I linked to in the OP. I think you might really like Abyss. Pain Is Beauty is the one that I have played the most. If it were me, I would just play music from all those four albums at first and see what appeals most to me. Hope you enjoy music by her. I would think you would.

I'm actually much more interested in music that is more on the peripheries of progressive rock than traditional Prog generally. Prog is such a nebulous and amorphous thing, and I often find music that tries to be Prog to be kind of cringy and ughh. I have a big progressive music umbrella that includes a lot of music I relate to art rock.

Me, too!

Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2023 at 11:12
^ And actually it has been an acceptance of music that would not nearly so much traditionally be linked to progressive rock that makes Crossover one of the most interesting categories at PA. I suggested one to Crossover called Chrome Hoof, and while I felt it was progressive and had lots of the qualities that I would associate with Prog and with the category I was still questioning whether that was suitable. I'm confident it was, and the more I thought about it the more links I made (which can be misleading as we naturally are pattern seekers). I questioned Stereolab (which has an obvious Krautrock influence) and Pram before (two I love, and Pram is in) but I'd be happy to see both in PA. I love various Björk albums and I'm happy to have the chance to review her here is I want to, but I do not consider her Prog. And having a band added or excluded from PA does not change my perception really of if it is Prog. To me it was more about does it fit the category than is it Prog proper (Crossover was one of those that split from our old Art Rock sub, and I would think, does this have Art Rock qualities?) Tori Amos is not one I associate with Prog. Don't know her that well. Nine Inch Nails I do for Ghosts.

There's music I see suggested and people are really insistent that this should be included that to me does not sound right for this site either in Prog categories or Prog Related. Different people have different ears for that and make different associations.

Most of what I listen to these days especially in post-classic era music that I think progressive or has a Prog relation is not what I would describe as Prog even if I think it could fit certain categories at PA (for evaluations I think on the category level rather than Prog writ large).

Buy yes, Gordy, I suggest you try Abyss, Pain Is Beauty, Apokalypsis, and Hiss Spun. Whether you think it progressive rock or not, I just think it's awesome music and worth hearing on its own music merits. And I think good music that can be described as progressive rock commonly does not fit a cookie-cutter Prog mold. It's funny that once you codify and limit Prog as a "genre" it becomes less progressive. Being progressive involves openness, change. Prog as genre can be seen as anti-progressive music. One way I have defined prog is as music without borders. It is music that can progress away from the expected and move into new music areas. It can draw on any number of influences. It is non-canonical.

It has been said before that some see the Prog label as badge of honour, and I don't. Being included may change what is acceptable to this site, and there are precedents, but it does not change the nature of the music nor does that affect my appreciation or much how I view the music or the "genre". It does effect how I see the category at PA. More important to me than genre always is, do I like the music? But of course liking the music is not why we add music, but it can help, and it can help get you added, and liked music is more likely to be suggested obviously.


Edited by Logan - August 09 2023 at 11:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2023 at 11:17
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:


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