Blind Guardian release new album

Marc Baum wrote: Agreed that NFIM-E is a highly original album with more use of unusual elements outide the metal genre, but does that mean it's more progressive in nature than the sound of Communic? I believe not. And that the complex time-signatures are a old, traditional elementary puzzle-pieces of the progressive sound stop it from beeing artistic? It's not only that Communic use these signatures for the hell of lacking artistic approaches. There are beautiful melodic parts with acoustic instruments and typical progressive trademark arrangements. That makes it artistic as well, only in a different direction than Guardian's on NFIM-E.

In a way I think that Communic are regressive, and Blind Guardian are progressive (at least on NiME, and also on IotOS). But that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy listening to Communic, or that they would receive much lesser ratings from me. They're doing with Nevermore what The Flower Kings do with Genesis, and why not?

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Marc Baum wrote: Agreed that NFIM-E is a highly original album with more use of unusual elements outide the metal genre, but does that mean it's more progressive in nature than the sound of Communic? I believe not. And that the complex time-signatures are a old, traditional elementary puzzle-pieces of the progressive sound stop it from beeing artistic? It's not only that Communic use these signatures for the hell of lacking artistic approaches. There are beautiful melodic parts with acoustic instruments and typical progressive trademark arrangements. That makes it artistic as well, only in a different direction than Guardian's on NFIM-E. In a way I think that Communic are regressive, and Blind Guardian are progressive (at least on NiME, and also on IotOS). But that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy listening to Communic, or that they would receive much lesser ratings from me. They're doing with Nevermore what The Flower Kings do with Genesis, and why not?

Marc Baum wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Marc Baum wrote: Agreed that NFIM-E is a highly original album with more use of unusual elements outide the metal genre, but does that mean it's more progressive in nature than the sound of Communic? I believe not. And that the complex time-signatures are a old, traditional elementary puzzle-pieces of the progressive sound stop it from beeing artistic? It's not only that Communic use these signatures for the hell of lacking artistic approaches. There are beautiful melodic parts with acoustic instruments and typical progressive trademark arrangements. That makes it artistic as well, only in a different direction than Guardian's on NFIM-E. In a way I think that Communic are regressive, and Blind Guardian are progressive (at least on NiME, and also on IotOS). But that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy listening to Communic, or that they would receive much lesser ratings from me. They're doing with Nevermore what The Flower Kings do with Genesis, and why not?   In a way, but their overall sound is more progressive than Nevermore's. Their sound is not regressive at all. Where's your point at that? Blind Guardian was never progressive until NIM-E came out, where they delivered a great job as prog-RELATED power/speed metal act. But it's a real failure to clear a band for one or two albums that have prog relations and put them in "progressive metal" territory, instead of a band, which is a true progressive metal band, like Communic and clear them as prog-related. That's complete non-sense. Then you can add any band that has one or two prog related albums, like Metallica or even Helloween for examples (do you know Better Than Raw? As well a prog-related power/speed metal album).

It should be pointed out that Blind Guardian had already a good deal of progressive elements on Imaginations from the Other Side, enough to call them prog related. NiME is prog, and NATO is - well, to me it is less prog, to others it is even more prog than NiME.

About Communic: The prog metal team is currently re-evaluating them, also in the context of Nevermore. It is most likely that Communic will be added as Prog, and Nevermore will be added as Prog Related.

About the "band vs. album": Even before the specialist teams were formed it had been Max's policy to add bands if they have one album that can be called "prog". That makes MUCH sense, considering that:

• it is albums we are reviewing here, not bands. So if a band made a prog album, they must be added, so that we can review that album.
• At some point genres will be applied to albums, not bands. If we didn't include bands with only one prog album, we'd have to go through the process of band addition again once we switch to that new strategy.
  

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 25 2006 at 05:52

Blind Guardian are progressive in my book - they're not progressive in yours. No big deal!

Edit: About Nevermore: It's all complexity and time signature to you - at least that's the impression I get. I know that many people say that Politics of Ecstasy is Nevermore's most progressive album - and I disagree. Dreaming Neon Black is much more innovative. I try to see beyond "simple" prog characteristica ... they are relevant, but music can be progressive in so many more ways.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 25 2006 at 19:49

Just listened to their single 'Fly' and also to the acoustic version of an upcoming song and the cover to In a gadda... all in the single

^cheers Mike

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Blind Guardian are progressive in my book - they're not progressive in yours. No big deal! Edit: About Nevermore: It's all complexity and time signature to you - at least that's the impression I get. I know that many people say that Politics of Ecstasy is Nevermore's most progressive album - and I disagree. Dreaming Neon Black is much more innovative. I try to see beyond "simple" prog characteristica ... they are relevant, but music can be progressive in so many more ways.

I think that "prog" is a very complex attribute. There may be bands which play highly complex music and are labeled "prog" ... largely because that complexity, but not only because of that. And there may be bands that make quite simple music - but they're also labeled "prog" because of their innovation, experimentality ... and a whole bunch of other factors.

What I'm trying to say is that progressiveness is a highly subjective measurement of music. Certif1ed would no doubt remind me here that it can be measured simply by looking at the 5 elements of music ... but this may be too difficult for most people. It really boils down to:

experience

Only by listening to many (clearly) prog bands, many (clearly) non-prog bands, many avant-garde/experimental bands, jazz, classical etc. music ... only by that one can begin to develop his(her) own definition of prog. If they have the musical background they can also analyze the music, look at the 5 elements etc. ... but in the end you just have to explore your feelings and then either say "I think this is progressive" or "I think this is not progressive".

And so, by my nearly two decades of listening experience of thousands of albums from all different kinds of genres I say: "Nightfall in Middle-Earth is a progressive album". Make of it what you want!


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 28 2006 at 09:38