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Topic ClosedThe Velvet Underground...

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Poll Question: Prog
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7 [58.33%]
5 [41.67%]
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Thyme Traveler View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Velvet Underground...
    Posted: March 21 2007 at 07:17

Ok, just to get a discussion going... but I think one could consider the Velvet Underground either Art rock or experimental rock.(although I see how someone could also see them as "proto-punk"). Nonetheless, I think a good case could certainly be made  for proto-prog. Taking the "proto-prog" definition one sentence at a time:

  • Rock Bands in existence prior to 1969 that influenced the development of progressive rock.  The Velvet Underground was definitely in existence before 1969. Did they influence eventual prog rock artists? They influenced electronic prog and experimental rock artists. Brian Eno considered among his biggest influences.
  • The late 60's was a predominately experimental period for music. These bands were moving in a stream that eventually led to prog. Were the Velvet Underground moving in this "stream" ? They were definitely among the most experimental groups of the 60's.
  • The influence could have come from new sophisticated forms of writing and playing music, recording techniques, new instruments and vocal harmonies to name a few. All those terms could be (and probably have) been used about The Velvet Underground.
  • Some of these bands became progressive rock bands themselves others did not. They disbanded before prog became mainstream.


Edited by Thyme Traveler - March 21 2007 at 07:20
Fire up the flux capacitor ! We're taking this Delorean through all four dimensions.

What is the future of prog ? Genesis reunion ? I'm not telling!That could upset the thyme/space continuum.
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 07:26
Hmm.. I predict a post from a certain Art Rock Team co-leader on this subject.. could get interesting.







Edited by Atavachron - March 21 2007 at 08:05
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2007 at 21:35
havn't really heard their stuff but I heard they had a huge impact on Krautrock bands, in principle I agree that they should be in the archives but until I get some of their albums I can't vote as I am ill informed about their music.



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2007 at 01:37
I love The Underground. John Cale era particularly. Not progressive at all. Even remotely. Avante-Garde? Yes. Revolutionary? absolutely. Garage? yup. Progressive? NO.
REgressive, yes.
The velvets were about destruction, long before Malcolme and his Pistols entered the scene, anti-establishment in full black and white.
What the garage rockers in the sixties did, was galvanized, by The Velvet Underground. Their raw brutal approach was more akin to Sam The Sham than King Crimson. All the pomposity and fantasity of psychedelia and progressive were second rate. Noise and shock was the agenda. Tearing away the flowers and tomes, and filling the hole with perverted pavement and disillusionment.
The velvets were a bealch of unwelcome air on a fruity beach. Even the hippies wouldn't touch this band. Too nasty,
Too real.
The Velvet Underground represents what rock and roll music WAS. And should be.
Obnoxious, artless, SEXY, and utterly unexceptable.
 
Not prog related at all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2007 at 03:56
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Hmm.. I predict a post from a certain Art Rock Team co-leader on this subject.. could get interesting.



and I'd hate to disappoint hahhaha.

Originally posted by Witchwoodhermit Witchwoodhermit wrote:

I love The Underground. John Cale era particularly. Not progressive at all. Even remotely. Avante-Garde? Yes. Revolutionary? absolutely. Garage? yup. Progressive? NO.
REgressive, yes.
The velvets were about destruction, long before Malcolme and his Pistols entered the scene, anti-establishment in full black and white.
What the garage rockers in the sixties did, was galvanized, by The Velvet Underground. Their raw brutal approach was more akin to Sam The Sham than King Crimson. All the pomposity and fantasity of psychedelia and progressive were second rate. Noise and shock was the agenda. Tearing away the flowers and tomes, and filling the hole with perverted pavement and disillusionment.
The velvets were a bealch of unwelcome air on a fruity beach. Even the hippies wouldn't touch this band. Too nasty,
Too real.
The Velvet Underground represents what rock and roll music WAS. And should be.
Obnoxious, artless, SEXY, and utterly unexceptable.
 
Not prog related at all.


wow....   we all see things differently.... so here's my take.

Prog is art...   music with the artistic aestetic.  To say that the VU were 'artless'  WOW!!!! Opinions are one thing.. ...LOL

I think they were probably one of the few real outside (american influences) on what was to come out of europe.. what we know now as prog rock.  As someone noted earlier.. a big influence on Krautrock.. I'm no expert on KR yet I've read of their influence even if the little I've read of KR.  I need to head off, so I'll keep it short.  A big thumbs up from Micky.

edit.  moderated by better half LOLWink


Edited by micky - March 22 2007 at 04:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2007 at 04:05
From what I've heard from the one album I have of Velvet Undergound, I say yes! Hey even my brother was surprised it wasn't on here already (he dislikes prog btw). He saw that it fit all the things about progressive rock. 

Edited by progismylife - March 22 2007 at 04:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2007 at 10:43
Micky
Prog is art...   music with the artistic aestetic.  To say that the VU were 'artless'  WOW!!!! Opinions are one thing.. ...LOL
 
OOPs, no I didn't mean that in a bad way.Embarrassed
Just not artsy in a Genesis or Crimson way.
Absolutely a huge influence on "krautrock". I see the Velvets more as avante garde than Progressive.
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clarke2001 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2007 at 12:04
No. Big time, no.

And that no is coming from the person who would like to include Bowie, Metallica and Stranglers on this site.

If anything represents an opposition to progressive rock, that's Velvet Underground's music. The very roots of punk.

They influenced many, in a same way Dylan and Elvis influenced many.

Please note that "opposite to prog" does not imply "opposite to good"; Velvet Underground are one of the best bands ever.

Solo careers of band members, well, that's another story. John Cale is prog? Worth discussing.

But no, not the good old Velvets.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2007 at 12:40
This one goes way back (a few weeks after the forum opening)
 
 
This one is not asking for inclusion, but....
 
 
and another one
 
 
and finally yours
 
 
There are a few more VU-related threads including in the collab zone
 
For my part:
 
+ plus
 
- highly influential but a bit artsy fartsy too
- John Cale plays violin and he certainly deserves to be prog-related.
- in a certain way these guys (and gals) were groundbreaking even if Reed and Maureen Tucker were anything but good musicians
- Nico her multiple collabs including one with Ayers.
 
 
- minus
 
- Highly poseur (almost fakes/imposters) mainly due to the NY - Warhol scene
- their 70's (or more like Lou Reed's) relation to the glam/US punk scene (Bowie, Iggy etc...
 
 
 
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2007 at 14:36
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 
For my part:
 
+ plus
 
- highly influential but a bit artsy fartsy too
- John Cale plays violin and he certainly deserves to be prog-related.
- in a certain way these guys (and gals) were groundbreaking even if Reed and Maureen Tucker were anything but good musicians
- Nico her multiple collabs including one with Ayers.
 
 
- minus
 
- Highly poseur (almost fakes/imposters) mainly due to the NY - Warhol scene
- their 70's (or more like Lou Reed's) relation to the glam/US punk scene (Bowie, Iggy etc...
 
 
 


good post Hugues.... as far as previous discussions...  the questions are never settled are they LOL

for what it's worth I agree with the pros... and the cons really don't matter as far as PA's go I guess. We'd kick Genesis off for all the poseurs they inspired hahahha.. and they are up for proto or PR.. and their influence spans not just progressive rock.. but later the punk scene. That is why I guess they are so highly regarded as far as music goes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2007 at 03:42
I really think they should be in the proto-prog question.

While they may not have directly influenced art rock or symphonic prog, I think they've influenced a whole lot of the avant-garde bands. So they technically belong in Proto-prog. Also, as mentioned earlier, they have had a significant impact on krautrock, so I think they're worthy of inclusion here.

And if that happens, I can't wait to review their albums! Big%20smile

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