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Rutgers Joe 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 103
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 Topic: 4 Major Jazz-Fusion Omissions
Posted: May 07 2007 at 15:52 |
Lenny White - Why fellow-RTFer Al DiMeola is on the site and Lenny White isn't is a mystery. White's first 3 albums were much "proggier" than anything DiMeola has ever done. 
Stanley Clarke - Another ex-RTF mystery...first several albums definitely merit inclusion...when I see John Abercrombie  ??? on the site and not Stanley Clarke...hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
David Sancious - 5 albums in the 70's...all excellent...all "prog"...
Tony Williams - I can't even imagine why he's not on the site, it's kind of embarrassing, really.
Edited by Rutgers Joe - May 08 2007 at 11:45
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The original (and very creepy) cover of THE STEVE HOWE ALBUM...hint...look in the water... 
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Atomic_Rooster
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Joined: December 26 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 1210
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Posted: May 07 2007 at 15:53 |
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well, at least billy cobham is on here
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I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers.
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Rutgers Joe
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 103
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Posted: May 07 2007 at 16:07 |
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That's a start...
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The original (and very creepy) cover of THE STEVE HOWE ALBUM...hint...look in the water...
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Points: 32995
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Posted: May 07 2007 at 18:11 |
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I find the title of your thread a bit offensive. Its like you are suggesting we don't allow black americans here. Surely you don't mean that?
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
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Points: 11979
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Posted: May 07 2007 at 18:22 |
he'd better not mean that .... his 62nd post might be his last....
However, for the moment his headline is a good way of drawing attention to these musicians...
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: @ wicker man
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Points: 32561
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Posted: May 07 2007 at 19:05 |
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Since we're on the topic anyway: I know others have mentioned this, but I rather think there's a strong case for Miles Davis' inclusion here for his important contribution to Jazz/ Rock Fusion (inspired Mahavishnu Orchestra and others) and Bitches Brew is a great fusion album. But, very progressive artist that he is, I wouldn't view him as a Progger (though I used to use that term for progressive jazz, rock and jazz/rock artists).
David Sancious' Tone/ "solo" work is excellent (used to love Forest of Feelings). I wonder if the bias has more to do with his involvement with Springsteen and his various session-player work (I mean, this guy played with Peter Gabriel and Jon Anderson so he can't have anything to do with prog can he?) rather than his skin colour, Or maybe it's just that people think his "styles" don't seem to quite fit in here.. I definitely think he has a place here, myself. But I haven't heard enough of his for too long to lobby for it.
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thepenultimateprogressiveartexperimentalmusicresource.org: the penultimate progressive, art, experimental music resource dot org
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: May 07 2007 at 22:18 |
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Stanley Clarke certainly is a due addition to the site. His self-titled album from 1974 (which includes the multipart Life Suite and has remarked collaborations from Jan Hammer, Tony Williams and Airto Moreira) as well as -in a lesser extent- Schooldays, are notable jazz-rock/fusion albums.
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Jesus Gabriel
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 64325
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Posted: May 07 2007 at 22:21 |
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Tony Williams is a must-add, Stanley Clarke up there too.. never heard any David Sancious
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 19594
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Posted: May 08 2007 at 04:08 |
 Atavachron wrote:
Tony Williams is a must-add, Stanley Clarke up there too.. never heard any David Sancious
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David Sancious started as the Springsteen keyboard player in the E-street band , but he was a jazz rock artist. His 70's works definitely belongs here.
Tony Williams' Lifetime should really be here.
I am a little more ambivalent with Stanley Clarke's works. But if we do, we have to add Jaco Pastorius, Wayne Shorter, the Brecker brothers and a myriad others who are more of the jazz world rather than rock. We have to draw a line somewhere. Miles Davis has been for considerations for ages, but his huge jazz personna can only make him prog-related and we have enough controversy so far with that category.
As for the thread title, we have Osibisa (from Ghana, but based in London) in the database for over 18 months. They may not be Afro-Americans, but they are full Africans.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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FruMp
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 16 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 322
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Posted: May 08 2007 at 04:54 |
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With regards to the quetsion in the topic title, unfotunately no black american musicians are not allowed to be listed on this site as progarchives is inherently racist and has measures in place to stop black people gaining any recognition for their works.
I guess you could try you know submitting them for review using the band addition process but I dunno that usually only works for white artists.
Anyway enough joking about, this topic has given me some good music to look for, I'm just starting to get into jazz/fusion properly.
Edited by FruMp - May 08 2007 at 06:07
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
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Posted: May 08 2007 at 07:40 |
Snow Dog wrote:
I find the title of your thread a bit offensive. Its like you are suggesting we don't allow black americans here. Surely you don't mean that? |
i understand where he is coming from..............Herbie Hancock, Fela Kuti? There is really no excuse! I had to petition for a year to get Billy Cobham included. 
Edited by DallasBryan - May 08 2007 at 07:43
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
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Points: 32995
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Posted: May 08 2007 at 07:43 |
DallasBryan wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
I find the title of your thread a bit offensive. Its like you are suggesting we don't allow black americans here. Surely you don't mean that? |
i understand where he is coming from..............Herbie Hancock? I had to petition for a year to get Billy Cobham included. |
Maybe so, but do you think that it took a year because "''e is black, innit?" 
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
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Posted: May 08 2007 at 07:44 |
Snow Dog wrote:
DallasBryan wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
I find the title of your thread a bit offensive. Its like you are suggesting we don't allow black americans here. Surely you don't mean that? |
i understand where he is coming from..............Herbie Hancock? I had to petition for a year to get Billy Cobham included. |
Maybe so, but do you think that it took a year because "''e is black, innit?" |
well maybe ethnic rhythmical misunderstanding 
he makes valid points, outside of the catchy heading of the thread. dont think it's intentional but an easy oversite, sort of outside the box artists but very talented and well deserved. think we would do a great service with a quick inclusion of several of these artists. IMO
Edited by DallasBryan - May 08 2007 at 07:51
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: May 08 2007 at 07:45 |
Snow Dog wrote:
DallasBryan wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
I find the title of your thread a bit offensive. Its like you are suggesting we don't allow black americans here. Surely you don't mean that? |
i understand where he is coming from..............Herbie Hancock? I had to petition for a year to get Billy Cobham included. |
Maybe so, but do you think that it took a year because "''e is black, innit?" |
My thoughts, exactly - but without the wink  Dallas?
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 Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
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Posted: May 08 2007 at 08:09 |
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there are many black artists that could be considered that are maybe not so well know outside of the US...........see Ronald Shannon Jackson and Information Society. Buckethead and several of the George Clinton/Parliament/Funkadelics crew. many are more/as progressive as many other artists already included on the site. ethnicity could be considered a boundary.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: May 08 2007 at 08:12 |
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I'm sure you didn't mean it the way it comes across, but ethnicity should never be "considered a boundary"
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
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Posted: May 08 2007 at 08:16 |
in Texas there is a saying "sh*t or get off the pot", it means do something about it, enough has been said.
Edited by DallasBryan - May 08 2007 at 08:17
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Rutgers Joe
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 103
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Posted: May 08 2007 at 11:39 |
Tony R wrote:
he'd better not mean that .... his 62nd post might be his last....
However, for the moment his headline is a good way of drawing attention to these musicians... |
No. I don't mean that, but yes, I'm trying to be provocative (but not offensive...sorry if I crossed the line).
Changed thread title...
Edited by Rutgers Joe - May 08 2007 at 11:46
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The original (and very creepy) cover of THE STEVE HOWE ALBUM...hint...look in the water...
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
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Posted: May 10 2007 at 08:42 |
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another one bites the dust
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4 Major Jazz-Fusion Omissions
