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Topic ClosedPhil Collins announces his "retirement"

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Chris S View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2008 at 23:18
Originally posted by russellk russellk wrote:

I'm sure the silent majority of people who neither adored nor despised the man are sad to hear this news: age and health catches up with us all in the end.

It would be a shame if our reaction to this news is sarcastic rather than respectful. Sarcasm is so easy to do, and it takes guts to say 'I may not have liked everything he did, but I respect him.'
 
ClapClapClapClapClapClapClap
 
nuff said...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2008 at 23:52
Even if he has problems in his ears or not, it is a shame, because it means that a reunion of the "fab five " (Collins, Gabriel, Hackett, Rurherford, Banks) is even more unlikely now.
 
Pete Townshend has been  for years with problems with his ears due to excesive volume playing with The Who, and also from using headphones at a high volume to play the guitar in his house at night  "while my sons  and my wife were sleeping, and after returning from rehearsals or recording sessions  with the Who ". He says that using headphones damaged his ears more that playing live with The Who. This problems led him to play mainly  acoustic guitar during some of the reumion tours from The Who. For more information:
 
 
 
There are photos from Phil (for example, in the book "From one Fan to Another", by Armando Gallo) when he appears using headphones while touring with Genesis in the buses, planes, etc., while he was using his Walkman. I used a Walkman for some weeks, and even using it at a low volume it caused hearing loss in my ears. I stopped to use it forever, and my hearing improved.


Edited by Guillermo - May 26 2008 at 23:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2008 at 04:56
Originally posted by Guillermo Guillermo wrote:

Even if he has problems in his ears or not, it is a shame, because it means that a reunion of the "fab five " (Collins, Gabriel, Hackett, Rurherford, Banks) is even more unlikely now.
 
Pete Townshend has been  for years with problems with his ears due to excesive volume playing with The Who, and also from using headphones at a high volume to play the guitar in his house at night  "while my sons  and my wife were sleeping, and after returning from rehearsals or recording sessions  with the Who ". He says that using headphones damaged his ears more that playing live with The Who. This problems led him to play mainly  acoustic guitar during some of the reumion tours from The Who. For more information:
 
 
 
There are photos from Phil (for example, in the book "From one Fan to Another", by Armando Gallo) when he appears using headphones while touring with Genesis in the buses, planes, etc., while he was using his Walkman. I used a Walkman for some weeks, and even using it at a low volume it caused hearing loss in my ears. I stopped to use it forever, and my hearing improved.
 
Now you have me worried!! Do Ipods/Walkmens really damage your ears that much? I listen to mine about 4 hours a day....Ouch
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2008 at 08:20
QUOTE=russellk]and it takes guts to say 'I may not have liked everything he did, but I respect him.'
[/QUOTE]
 
Sorry but I could never respect him - I do not find him a pleasant person, which I think the recent BBC doco bore out completely. The way that he dismissed their prog days and said he was embarrased looking back on it says it all really.
 
I grew up with Genesis, and loved the first two albums he did as lead singer, and saw them a number of times live at that stage. I watched him grow from doing a two minute acoustic song on stage to fronting the band, and then in my opinion turning them into a bland shadow of their former selves after W&W once his writing began to come to the fore.
 
Recently the Daily Telegraph, Peter Gabriel said the following:
"Because I am a perfectionist, once I start doing something I want to do it properly. If I had done Genesis, I couldn't have just turned up, sung for a couple of hours and pissed off. I would have been in there working on the show and the lights and everything else. It was a bigger chunk of time than I could commit to."
 
Seems to me exactly what PC ended up doing.
 
Gabriel I respect. Collins I do not.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2008 at 14:15
Originally posted by Chris Stacey Chris Stacey wrote:

Originally posted by Guillermo Guillermo wrote:

Even if he has problems in his ears or not, it is a shame, because it means that a reunion of the "fab five " (Collins, Gabriel, Hackett, Rurherford, Banks) is even more unlikely now.
 
Pete Townshend has been  for years with problems with his ears due to excesive volume playing with The Who, and also from using headphones at a high volume to play the guitar in his house at night  "while my sons  and my wife were sleeping, and after returning from rehearsals or recording sessions  with the Who ". He says that using headphones damaged his ears more that playing live with The Who. This problems led him to play mainly  acoustic guitar during some of the reumion tours from The Who. For more information:
 
 
 
There are photos from Phil (for example, in the book "From one Fan to Another", by Armando Gallo) when he appears using headphones while touring with Genesis in the buses, planes, etc., while he was using his Walkman. I used a Walkman for some weeks, and even using it at a low volume it caused hearing loss in my ears. I stopped to use it forever, and my hearing improved.
 
Now you have me worried!! Do Ipods/Walkmens really damage your ears that much? I listen to mine about 4 hours a day....Ouch
 
Maybe there are some people who can`t use headphones for long periods of time. This is my case: I even can`t use headphones with  sound equipment of High Fidelity! (CD players, cassette tape decks,LP turntables). The sound in headphones from Walkmans is very high in tones (treble sound) despite using the "equalizer" that some of them have and even in low volume levels. Maybe an additional thing for having "sensitive ears" could be that I play the drums and I have played them with bands. Sometimes I use cotton in my ears to avoid excesive volume while playing with bands.
 
Maybe Townshend and Collins have hearing problems due to playing with bands and using headphones.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2008 at 23:49

I do respect what Phil did with Genesis (Until Hackett left) and with Brand X. I also respect him as a drummer, even a singer (even when his voice is not my cup of tea), but not as a composer.

The big question is why should I feel sad for his retirement oif I haven't cared for what he has done in the last 30 years?

The guy is retiring with a huge amount of money and with the love of loyal fans, he will enjoy his money while he is able to do it, very few of us will be able to do that, so no reason to feel sorry for him.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 28 2008 at 00:24
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2008 at 17:38
He should retire from writing and keep touring with Genesis, being that he hasn't had anything to say or worth listening to for over 20 years now.  Listening to his lightweight candy-assed version of Cyndi Lauper's "True Colors"  at the dentist's office sealed the deal for me and for any other Genesis fan as well.  The man needs to Squonk it up a bit if he wants my respect again.  Odds are, he'll come out with a Disney retrospect of his soundtrack material at best.  I guess I'll have to keep living in the past if I'm to appreciate his true talents, which I know are buried in the man's chrome dome somewhere.  Tony!  Michael!  Please wake up this poor man we once knew!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2008 at 19:06
Tony and Mike had just as much to do with the sound of 80s Genesis as Phil did. But as someone who loves 80s Genesis, I don't mind. :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2008 at 11:40
I am soooo tired of all this silly Phil Collins-bashing and Peter Gabriel-praise. The world is so easy that way.  Now here are my thoughts: PC was one of the best drummers from say 1975 till early 90es. He had a great voice in this period, as well, whether you like it or not. To all the armchair critics here who are not worthy of adjusting PCs drum stool: Do you think that so diverse artists like Eric Clapton, Robert Plant, Philip Bailey, Frida, Tears For Fears were all mad, because they wanted his very special drumming style? And btw: The Genesis songs since 1981 were written by Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Michael Rutherford, and not by Phil Collins all alone who forced the other guys to play his songs.
So I respect him for what he was: a truly great musician (even if I don`t like his solo stuff since 1993 at all, either).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2008 at 13:50
We all know it was Philly who wrecked Genesis but some of the stuff he did with brand X I can handle. He also appears on a couple of tracks on a Peter Banks album, Thewo Sides Of Peter Banks from`73 which is worth checking out if you can find one. I guess you can`t really knock the guy he`s one of the most versatile musicians and has sat in with many musicians from  Jethro Tull  to Black Sabbath ( at the Queen`s Golden Jubilee ) . I saw him on Letterman omce where he was just doing an interview and Letterman asked him to sit in with Paull Schafer`s band. Funny thing was that it was not rehearsed and the drum kit was set up for a right handed drummer. It`s just all this goofy bubble gum solo stuff that I just can`t stand.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2008 at 21:46
Originally posted by orangefiltersky orangefiltersky wrote:

I am soooo tired of all this silly Phil Collins-bashing and Peter Gabriel-praise. The world is so easy that way. 
 
Get used to, this is a Prog site, and I'm member of at least 5 Prog sites where bashing Phil Collins is the national sport.
 
Originally posted by orangefiltersky orangefiltersky wrote:

Now here are my thoughts: PC was one of the best drummers from say 1975 till early 90es. He had a great voice in this period, as well, whether you like it or not. To all the armchair critics here who are not worthy of adjusting PCs drum stool:
 
Most of the people here are not musicians, so your comment of not worthy of adjusting Collins drum stool, is completely absurd, plus the factthat most crirics are armchair ones, because a critic is not necesarilly a musician.
 
Phil Collins is not Gopd, he can be criticized as anybody else, I read harsh vcomments towards many musiciabns and band, Dream Theater are an example.
 
I d0on't believe he had a great voice, his voice is flat and without changes, nice for POP stuff but IMO lack ogf versatility for a Prog band, that's why I find ATOTT so boring in the vocal part.
 
 
Originally posted by orangefiltersky orangefiltersky wrote:

Do you think that so diverse artists like Eric Clapton, Robert Plant, Philip Bailey, Frida, Tears For Fears were all mad, because they wanted his very special drumming style?
 
As far as I know, nobodyy has a problem with his drumming, everybody here respects him in as a perfoprmer in Genesis and Brand X, the problemas are:
  1. His melodic Pop boring stuff,
  2. All the crap he talked and  how he criticized Prog for two decades (while he was popular)
  3. The path Genesis took while he was the leader of the band.
Originally posted by orangefiltersky orangefiltersky wrote:

And btw: The Genesis songs since 1981 were written by Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Michael Rutherford, and not by Phil Collins all alone who forced the other guys to play his songs.
 
But he was the leader and frontman, face it, the man in the front is the one who receives the praise or the stone, plus his solo stuff sounds incredibly similar to some Genesis music, so it's easy to guess who was the loudest voice in the band

Originally posted by orangefiltersky orangefiltersky wrote:

So I respect him for what he was: a truly great musician (even if I don`t like his solo stuff since 1993 at all, either).
 
I respect him as Genesis and Brand X drummer and absolutely don't care about the rest of his career.
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2008 at 04:52
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by orangefiltersky orangefiltersky wrote:

I am soooo tired of all this silly Phil Collins-bashing and Peter Gabriel-praise. The world is so easy that way. 
 
Get used to, this is a Prog site, and I'm member of at least 5 Prog sites where bashing Phil Collins is the national sport.

You should seriously consider your membership at those sites, then. I'm guessing you'd agree with me that 'bashing' someone, no matter how deserving, isn't charitable behaviour.
 
Originally posted by orangefiltersky orangefiltersky wrote:

Now here are my thoughts: PC was one of the best drummers from say 1975 till early 90es. He had a great voice in this period, as well, whether you like it or not. To all the armchair critics here who are not worthy of adjusting PCs drum stool:
 
Most of the people here are not musicians, so your comment of not worthy of adjusting Collins drum stool, is completely absurd, plus the factthat most crirics are armchair ones, because a critic is not necesarilly a musician.
 
Phil Collins is not Gopd, he can be criticized as anybody else, I read harsh vcomments towards many musiciabns and band, Dream Theater are an example.
 
I d0on't believe he had a great voice, his voice is flat and without changes, nice for POP stuff but IMO lack ogf versatility for a Prog band, that's why I find ATOTT so boring in the vocal part.

Being a trained singer myself, I can report that Collins' voice is far superior to Gabriel's. Gabriel was often flat, and he had to shout his high notes. And what do you mean, his voice is 'without changes'? Collins could assume a wide variety of styles, and has a far greater vocal range than Gabriel. You are a Genesis fan: you must recall the comment Gabriel made of Collins on the 'Seconds Out' tour that he sung Gabriel's songs better than Gabriel himself did. Which singer you like best is a matter of taste, but the objective quality of the singer isn't a matter of opinion, and qualified judges from Gabriel himself downwards all rate Phil's voice more highly. A fact, with supporting evidence.

 
Originally posted by orangefiltersky orangefiltersky wrote:

Do you think that so diverse artists like Eric Clapton, Robert Plant, Philip Bailey, Frida, Tears For Fears were all mad, because they wanted his very special drumming style?
 
As far as I know, nobodyy has a problem with his drumming, everybody here respects him in as a perfoprmer in Genesis and Brand X, the problemas are:
  1. His melodic Pop boring stuff, (in your opinion)
  2. All the crap he talked and  how he criticized Prog for two decades (while he was popular) (as did so many former proggers)
  3. The path Genesis took while he was the leader of the band. (Collins was never the leader of the band)
Originally posted by orangefiltersky orangefiltersky wrote:

And btw: The Genesis songs since 1981 were written by Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Michael Rutherford, and not by Phil Collins all alone who forced the other guys to play his songs.
 
But he was the leader and frontman, face it, the man in the front is the one who receives the praise or the stone, plus his solo stuff sounds incredibly similar to some Genesis music, so it's easy to guess who was the loudest voice in the band

You're making assumptions to fit your argument. According to your logic, then, the leader of the band between 1997 and 2000 was Ray Wilson. Right?

Of course not. Your argument isn't logical. Phil was the singer, but he was never the leader. Many sources, from Wikepedia through to the biographies of Genesis, make it clear that in the three-man band the leadership and songwriting was shared equally. Yes, Phil's solo career had an effect on Genesis' sound (witness the magnificent - in my opinion - 'No Reply at All', for example), but so did Mike's and Tony's. Phil gets all the attention and the criticism because he was more famous and therefore the easier target for lazy people who can't be bothered doing their research. I know you're not one of those, Ivan, because of your vast knowledge about Genesis, which makes me surprised that you think Phil was the band's leader.


Originally posted by orangefiltersky orangefiltersky wrote:

So I respect him for what he was: a truly great musician (even if I don`t like his solo stuff since 1993 at all, either).
 
I respect him as Genesis and Brand X drummer and absolutely don't care about the rest of his career.
 
Iván


Edited by russellk - July 29 2008 at 04:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2008 at 18:46
Originally posted by russellk russellk wrote:



You should seriously consider your membership at those sites, then. I'm guessing you'd agree with me that 'bashing' someone, no matter how deserving, isn't charitable behaviour.
 
This is one of those sites LOL and I won't consider my membership...Are you blind, Phil Collins is often bashed here also.
 
Abnd pelase, what charity? The guy is as rich as he can be, as successful as the other Genesis members never where, he has everything, he needs no charitative behaviour, each time he looks at his bank account he laughs about the critics.
 
  1. His melodic Pop boring stuff, (in your opinion)

Yes, it's my opinion, and many others in this forum, just read the threads.
 
  1. All the crap he talked and  how he criticized Prog for two decades (while he was popular) (as did so many former proggers)

Nobody was a rude, ofensive and contradictory as him (As soon as his ppopularity started to fade, he talkled great things about Prog) 

  1. The path Genesis took while he was the leader of the band. (Collins was never the leader of the band)
Yes he was, he took crucial decisions against the will of the others (Like when he made a state caso of the Phoenix Horns, when nobody else wanted them), and at the end, his style is evident.

Being a trained singer myself, I can report that Collins' voice is far superior to Gabriel's. Gabriel was often flat, and he had to shout his high notes. And what do you mean, his voice is 'without changes'? Collins could assume a wide variety of styles, and has a far greater vocal range than Gabriel.
 
Sorry but despite your musical credentials, I trust more in my short years of musical studies and my ears, Phil Collins voice is flat, with no variations, when he doiesn't reach a note he tends to repeat the lastr worg (And the Lamb.......Lamb, Lamb, Lamb).
 
Gabriel doesn't have a great range either, specially weak in the high notes, but he has learned to turn that disadvantage into an advantage, creating that semi yodel that gives more drama to the lyrics.
 
You are a Genesis fan: you must recall the comment Gabriel made of Collins on the 'Seconds Out' tour that he sung Gabriel's songs better than Gabriel himself did. Which singer you like best is a matter of taste, but the objective quality of the singer isn't a matter of opinion, and qualified judges from Gabriel himself downwards all rate Phil's voice more highly. A fact, with supporting evidence.

I don't agree with Gabriel, I feel that Supper's Ready is a joke, The Lamb is annoying, only I know What I Like sounded better, but the rest was second class IMO.

I believe Peter was trying to have courtesy, that's all.

You're making assumptions to fit your argument. According to your logic, then, the leader of the band between 1997 and 2000 was Ray Wilson. Right?

Ray Willson only came to sing, he never was a leader of the band, that's why I said frontman AND leader when talking about Collins.

Of course not. Your argument isn't logical. Phil was the singer, but he was never the leader. Many sources, from Wikepedia through to the biographies of Genesis, make it clear that in the three-man band the leadership and songwriting was shared equally. Yes, Phil's solo career had an effect on Genesis' sound (witness the magnificent - in my opinion - 'No Reply at All', for example), but so did Mike's and Tony's. Phil gets all the attention and the criticism because he was more famous and therefore the easier target for lazy people who can't be bothered doing their research. I know you're not one of those, Ivan, because of your vast knowledge about Genesis, which makes me surprised that you think Phil was the band's leader.
 
Please, have you ever seen Genesis a History, when a  journalist askes him
 
Q: Will you let Peter come bank again.
 
PC: No I wouldn't.
 
That's the answrer of a leader, not just another voice in the choir....The funny thing is that in th e early 2000's Phil claimed he would only rejoin Genesis if Peter was on the vocals...After all he said. LOL
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 29 2008 at 18:50
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2008 at 22:10
It's so much better when, instead of 5 albums (we all agree the very first one was a different thing), one can enjoy 14 (counting Wilson's) album of good-to-great-to-superb music!
 
I'm sad Phil Collins retires... Now a 5-man Genesis reunion is finally completely impossible, and also, a new Collins' pop/rock hit, which he has and a lot, will never happen....
 
The thing is, whatever may have happened, a musician retiring is worse than a musician staying, no matter who that artist is, even in genres one doesn't like. Because those who dislike the artist, don't lose anything with his departure (they don't gain anything either, unless there's some resentment hidden within), but those who LIKE the artist, well, they lose.
 
Have a healthy life, Phil Collins!   Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2008 at 03:02
Now that Phil's retired, we can look forward to the possibility of a "Return To Trespass" tour with John Mayhew and Anthony Phillips.Big%20smile


Edited by Harry Hood - July 30 2008 at 03:04
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