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DracoMordag
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 58
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Topic: A Perfect Circle Posted: June 01 2005 at 18:57 |
I know I'm gonna get a lot of heat for this, but it must be said:
A Perfect Circle fully deserve to be in the ProgArchives.
Now, I know a lot of you have gone out and heard "Judith" and "The
Hollow" and it never crossed your mind that APC was a progressive band.
Well, to put it bluntly, they are.
Although APC may follow the standard 3-minute structure (well, okay...
5-minute structure), but there are other elements that define prog.
A list of this very site's definitions of Prog:
"Lyrics that convey intricate and sometimes impenetrable narratives,
covering such themes as science fiction, fantasy, history, religion,
war, love, and madness. Many early 1970s progressive rock bands
(especially German ones) featured lyrics concerned with left-wing
politics and social issues.
Unusual vocal styles and use of multi-part vocal harmonies. See Magma, Robert Wyatt, and Gentle Giant.
Prominent use of electronic instrumentation — particularly keyboard
instruments such as the organ, piano, Mellotron, and Moog synthesizer,
in addition to the usual rock combination of electric guitar, bass and
drums.
Use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings. Many pieces use
multiple time signatures and/or tempi, sometimes concurrently. Solo
passages for virtually every instrument, designed to showcase the
virtuosity of the player. This is the sort of thing that contributed to
the fame of such performers as keyboardist Rick Wakeman and drummer
Neil Peart.
A piece that is composed of a patchwork of musical themes that could
conceivably stand as individual songs, but together serve to relate a
complete narrative through music. Examples are "Supper's Ready" on
Genesis' Foxtrot (the "Willow Farm" section of which was played as a
single), "A Day in the Life" on Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
by The Beatles, Jethro Tull's Aqualung from the album of the same name,
and "The Gates of Delirium" on Yes's album Relayer (from which the
single "Soon" was taken).
A piece that allows the development of musical ideas via progressions
or variations in the manner of a bolero or a canon. "King Kong" on
Frank Zappa's Uncle Meat is an example."
To me, this is a healthy list by itself, but the main arguement for my
case is the sheer compositional talent present in APC's work. This is
not so much present on the debut album "Mer de Noms" (main exceptions:
the Rose and Orestes) as it is on "Thirteenth Step".
As a professional composer, I know compositional talent when I hear it.
That's the main reason I listen to prog is just that: composition. And
APC definately has it. You could get me started on the number of bands
already in this archive without an ounce of compositional talent, but
this is not a post to degrade other music.
Essentially, I'm pleading for you guys to go out, pick up a copy of
13th Step (or download it, whatever) and give the whole thing a good
listen. Main recommendations: "The Noose" and "Gravity". If you can
listen to those tracks and not hear the prog, then you need your head
examined.
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: June 02 2005 at 05:32 |
I am a huge TOOL and APC fan and I agree with you.
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Hangedman
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 03 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1261
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Posted: June 02 2005 at 11:14 |
Although its been a little while since ive heard thirteenth step in a while, I disagree with them being prog. I wont really say anything or make comments untill ive heard it again, so im going to go out and get myself a copy. (I love mer de noms mind you, but definetly not prog) Maybe itll change my opinion.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 20518
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Posted: June 02 2005 at 13:58 |
When Tool is considered prog, so must be A Perfect Circle, or am I missing something?
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Bryan
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: June 02 2005 at 20:13 |
Just because Tool's singer is in APC, doesn't make them prog. I own all 3 APC albums and would never consider them prog.
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46and2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 203
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Posted: June 02 2005 at 23:39 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 20518
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Posted: June 03 2005 at 02:23 |
Useful_Idiot wrote:
Just because Tool's singer is in APC, doesn't make them prog. I own all 3 APC albums and would never consider them prog. |
I even think that APC are more prog than Tool ... but that's just my personal opinion. Keep in mind that on this website Radiohead, Fantomas and Porcupine Tree are considered to be prog, too. I agree with those classifications, but it shows a diversity that IMO also makes APC a candidate for inclusion.
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DracoMordag
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 58
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Posted: June 03 2005 at 14:53 |
In my opinion APC is way more prog than TOOL, but that's because there are two main classifications of Prog.
One: length and feel (Tool, Yes, ELP)
Two: composition (PF's The Wall, DT's Scenes, APC)
granted, bands incessantly waver between the two, but there is a
distinct difference. For instance, "Set the Controls for the Heart of
the Sun" would go in the "epic" category, while "Comforatbly Numb"
would go in the compositional category.
To give another example, Mozart's Magic Flute Overture would go in
category 1, while Sibelius's Finlandia hymn would go in category two.
The Magic Flute (despoite its hype) is not of the highest compositional
quality. Finlandia hymn, despite its shortness, is exceptionally well
composed.
Another aspect is structure (category one) vs. harmony (category two).
Most prog fans are unaware of this difference in definition, which leads to the majority of the fights on the board.
Edited by DracoMordag
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Borealis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 599
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Posted: June 03 2005 at 16:56 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I even think that APC are more prog than Tool ... but that's just my personal opinion. Keep in mind that on this website Radiohead, Fantomas and Porcupine Tree are considered to be prog, too. I agree with those classifications, but it shows a diversity that IMO also makes APC a candidate for inclusion.
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Hey, man, what's the problem with Porcupine Tree? You are saying A Perfect Circle is progger than PT?...
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Vive le Québec libre!...
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 20518
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Posted: June 03 2005 at 18:09 |
Borealis wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I even think that APC are more prog than Tool ... but that's just my personal opinion. Keep in mind that on this website Radiohead, Fantomas and Porcupine Tree are considered to be prog, too. I agree with those classifications, but it shows a diversity that IMO also makes APC a candidate for inclusion.
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Hey, man, what's the problem with Porcupine Tree? You are saying A Perfect Circle is progger than PT?...
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I like them fine, they're on their way to become my favorite ... well, "Independent Prog" band. I have no problem calling them prog, but some of the traditionalists might object. And why? Because Porcupine Tree don't sound like Yes or Genesis. And on the same basis one could argue that APC is not prog. In my opinion, every Alternative/Experimental/Art something is prog, if it has a rock vibe to it AND a certain sense of seriousness. And that applies to APC. Mind you, I'm not even a big fan of them (I actually prefer Tool), I'm only trying to be objective.
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Peace Frog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 17 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 994
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:05 |
I agree, I love A Perfect Circle, and they should be on here if Tool and Radiohead are. Porcupine Tree is the best current prog band, ahy would anyone question their progginess?
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GoldenSpiral
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3839
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:39 |
Useful_Idiot wrote:
Just because Tool's singer is in APC, doesn't make
them prog. I own all 3 APC albums and would never consider them
prog.
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seconded.
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Pafnutij
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: Russian Federation
Status: Offline
Points: 415
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Posted: November 11 2005 at 00:51 |
DracoMordag wrote:
In my opinion APC is way more prog than TOOL, but that's because there are two main classifications of Prog.
One: length and feel (Tool, Yes, ELP)
Two: composition (PF's The Wall, DT's Scenes, APC)
granted, bands incessantly waver between the two, but there is a distinct difference. For instance, "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" would go in the "epic" category, while "Comforatbly Numb" would go in the compositional category.
To give another example, Mozart's Magic Flute Overture would go in category 1, while Sibelius's Finlandia hymn would go in category two. The Magic Flute (despoite its hype) is not of the highest compositional quality. Finlandia hymn, despite its shortness, is exceptionally well composed.
Another aspect is structure (category one) vs. harmony (category two).
Most prog fans are unaware of this difference in definition, which leads to the majority of the fights on the board.
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Agreed, accept that Floyd belongs to the first category.
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Radioactive Toy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 953
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Posted: November 11 2005 at 15:28 |
Useful_Idiot wrote:
Just because Tool's singer is in APC, doesn't make
them prog. I own all 3 APC albums and would never consider them
prog.
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same with katatonia.. it's really irritating me!
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Reed's failed joke counter: ||||| R.I.P. You could have reached infinity....
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Define Insanity
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 13 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 18
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Posted: November 15 2005 at 22:01 |
Peace Frog wrote:
I agree, I love A Perfect Circle, and they
should be on here if Tool and Radiohead are. Porcupine Tree is the best
current prog band, ahy would anyone question their progginess?
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I would definitely question that they're the best
prog band, but I haven't heard enough of them to question whether or
not they're a prog band in general. I've heard their album
Deadwing, and I must say, I was a little dissappointed with it, but I
understand their older stuff is more proggy, so I'm not going to go so
far as to say they are not proggy.
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How awesome. A place where I can talk about progressive rock and not hear "IS THIS ONE OF YOUR 50 HOUR LONG SONGS?!?!" I salute you. :D
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Bobby
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 53
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Posted: November 20 2005 at 01:21 |
I fully agree. APC organizes their music in a way most bands won't touch, and I've always thought them to be art rock. They should definitely be on here.
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fuurinkazan
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 07 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 14
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Posted: November 13 2007 at 09:33 |
On last.fm, over 1500 people have tagged A Perfect Circle as "progressive rock." They are the 10th on the list of bands most commonly tagged as "progressive rock," above Jethro Tull, Genesis, Frank Zappa and Emerson Lake and Palmer. Also, the Dutch Progressive Rock Page recommends APC's album "Emotive." I don't have a strong opinion, but it is clear that quite a lot of people view APC as progressive.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
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Posted: November 13 2007 at 09:37 |
TheProgtologist wrote:
I am a huge TOOL and APC fan and I agree with you. |
where would you suggest they could go?
edit.... I'm catching a vibe that they could be AR material
Edited by micky - November 13 2007 at 09:38
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24391
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Posted: November 13 2007 at 09:42 |
I've only heard Mer de Noms (which I don't particularly like), so I can't say anything about the other album mentioned here. Since the one I have doesn't strike me as really prog, I was quite surprised when I heard APC tagged as such. This is not surprising in itself, because Coheed & Cambria are also considered prog by many sources, and here they got into Prog-Related after a long struggle. I suppose APC could be suggested for PR too, unless someone has a better idea of where to put them.
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