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DracoMordag View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: A Perfect Circle
    Posted: June 01 2005 at 18:57
I know I'm gonna get a lot of heat for this, but it must be said:

A Perfect Circle fully deserve to be in the ProgArchives.

Now, I know a lot of you have gone out and heard "Judith" and "The Hollow" and it never crossed your mind that APC was a progressive band. Well, to put it bluntly, they are.

Although APC may follow the standard 3-minute structure (well, okay... 5-minute structure), but there are other elements that define prog.

A list of this very site's definitions of Prog:

"Lyrics that convey intricate and sometimes impenetrable narratives, covering such themes as science fiction, fantasy, history, religion, war, love, and madness. Many early 1970s progressive rock bands (especially German ones) featured lyrics concerned with left-wing politics and social issues.

Unusual vocal styles and use of multi-part vocal harmonies. See Magma, Robert Wyatt, and Gentle Giant.

Prominent use of electronic instrumentation — particularly keyboard instruments such as the organ, piano, Mellotron, and Moog synthesizer, in addition to the usual rock combination of electric guitar, bass and drums.

Use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings. Many pieces use multiple time signatures and/or tempi, sometimes concurrently. Solo passages for virtually every instrument, designed to showcase the virtuosity of the player. This is the sort of thing that contributed to the fame of such performers as keyboardist Rick Wakeman and drummer Neil Peart.

A piece that is composed of a patchwork of musical themes that could conceivably stand as individual songs, but together serve to relate a complete narrative through music. Examples are "Supper's Ready" on Genesis' Foxtrot (the "Willow Farm" section of which was played as a single), "A Day in the Life" on Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band by The Beatles, Jethro Tull's Aqualung from the album of the same name, and "The Gates of Delirium" on Yes's album Relayer (from which the single "Soon" was taken).

A piece that allows the development of musical ideas via progressions or variations in the manner of a bolero or a canon. "King Kong" on Frank Zappa's Uncle Meat is an example."

To me, this is a healthy list by itself, but the main arguement for my case is the sheer compositional talent present in APC's work. This is not so much present on the debut album "Mer de Noms" (main exceptions: the Rose and Orestes) as it is on "Thirteenth Step".

As a professional composer, I know compositional talent when I hear it. That's the main reason I listen to prog is just that: composition. And APC definately has it. You could get me started on the number of bands already in this archive without an ounce of compositional talent, but this is not a post to degrade other music.




Essentially, I'm pleading for you guys to go out, pick up a copy of 13th Step (or download it, whatever) and give the whole thing a good listen. Main recommendations: "The Noose" and "Gravity". If you can listen to those tracks and not hear the prog, then you need your head examined.
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TheProgtologist View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2005 at 05:32
I am a huge TOOL and APC fan and I agree with you.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2005 at 11:14
Although its been a little while since ive heard thirteenth step in a while, I disagree with them being prog. I wont really say anything or make comments untill ive heard it again, so im going to go out and get myself a copy. (I love mer de noms mind you, but definetly not prog) Maybe itll change my opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2005 at 13:58
When Tool is considered prog, so must be A Perfect Circle, or am I missing something?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2005 at 20:13
Just because Tool's singer is in APC, doesn't make them prog.  I own all 3 APC albums and would never consider them prog.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2005 at 23:39

HELL YES!

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2005 at 02:23

Originally posted by Useful_Idiot Useful_Idiot wrote:

Just because Tool's singer is in APC, doesn't make them prog.  I own all 3 APC albums and would never consider them prog.

I even think that APC are more prog than Tool ... but that's just my personal opinion. Keep in mind that on this website Radiohead, Fantomas and Porcupine Tree are considered to be prog, too. I agree with those classifications, but it shows a diversity that IMO also makes APC a candidate for inclusion.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2005 at 14:53
In my opinion APC is way more prog than TOOL, but that's because there are two main classifications of Prog.

One: length and feel (Tool, Yes, ELP)

Two: composition (PF's The Wall, DT's Scenes, APC)


granted, bands incessantly waver between the two, but there is a distinct difference. For instance, "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" would go in the "epic" category, while "Comforatbly Numb" would go in the compositional category.

To give another example, Mozart's Magic Flute Overture would go in category 1, while Sibelius's Finlandia hymn would go in category two. The Magic Flute (despoite its hype) is not of the highest compositional quality. Finlandia hymn, despite its shortness, is exceptionally well composed.

Another aspect is structure (category one) vs. harmony (category two).

Most prog fans are unaware of this difference in definition, which leads to the majority of the fights on the board.


Edited by DracoMordag
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2005 at 16:56
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I even think that APC are more prog than Tool ... but that's just my personal opinion. Keep in mind that on this website Radiohead, Fantomas and Porcupine Tree are considered to be prog, too. I agree with those classifications, but it shows a diversity that IMO also makes APC a candidate for inclusion.

Hey, man, what's the problem with Porcupine Tree? You are saying A Perfect Circle is progger than PT?...

Vive le Québec libre!...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2005 at 18:09
Originally posted by Borealis Borealis wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I even think that APC are more prog than Tool ... but that's just my personal opinion. Keep in mind that on this website Radiohead, Fantomas and Porcupine Tree are considered to be prog, too. I agree with those classifications, but it shows a diversity that IMO also makes APC a candidate for inclusion.

Hey, man, what's the problem with Porcupine Tree? You are saying A Perfect Circle is progger than PT?...

I like them fine, they're on their way to become my favorite ... well, "Independent Prog" band. I have no problem calling them prog, but some of the traditionalists might object. And why? Because Porcupine Tree don't sound like Yes or Genesis. And on the same basis one could argue that APC is not prog. In my opinion, every Alternative/Experimental/Art something is prog, if it has a rock vibe to it AND a certain sense of seriousness. And that applies to APC. Mind you, I'm not even a big fan of them (I actually prefer Tool), I'm only trying to be objective.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:05

I agree, I love A Perfect Circle, and they should be on here if Tool and Radiohead are. Porcupine Tree is the best current prog band, ahy would anyone question their progginess?

 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2005 at 12:39
Originally posted by Useful_Idiot Useful_Idiot wrote:

Just because Tool's singer is in APC, doesn't make them prog.  I own all 3 APC albums and would never consider them prog.


seconded.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 00:51

Originally posted by DracoMordag DracoMordag wrote:

In my opinion APC is way more prog than TOOL, but that's because there are two main classifications of Prog.

One: length and feel (Tool, Yes, ELP)

Two: composition (PF's The Wall, DT's Scenes, APC)


granted, bands incessantly waver between the two, but there is a distinct difference. For instance, "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" would go in the "epic" category, while "Comforatbly Numb" would go in the compositional category.

To give another example, Mozart's Magic Flute Overture would go in category 1, while Sibelius's Finlandia hymn would go in category two. The Magic Flute (despoite its hype) is not of the highest compositional quality. Finlandia hymn, despite its shortness, is exceptionally well composed.

Another aspect is structure (category one) vs. harmony (category two).

Most prog fans are unaware of this difference in definition, which leads to the majority of the fights on the board.

Agreed, accept that Floyd belongs to the first category.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2005 at 15:28
Originally posted by Useful_Idiot Useful_Idiot wrote:

Just because Tool's singer is in APC, doesn't make them prog.  I own all 3 APC albums and would never consider them prog.


same with katatonia.. it's really irritating me!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2005 at 22:01
Originally posted by Peace Frog Peace Frog wrote:

I agree, I love A Perfect Circle, and they should be on here if Tool and Radiohead are. Porcupine Tree is the best current prog band, ahy would anyone question their progginess?



I would definitely question that they're the best prog band, but I haven't heard enough of them to question whether or not they're a prog band in general.  I've heard their album Deadwing, and I must say, I was a little dissappointed with it, but I understand their older stuff is more proggy, so I'm not going to go so far as to say they are not proggy.
How awesome. A place where I can talk about progressive rock and not hear "IS THIS ONE OF YOUR 50 HOUR LONG SONGS?!?!" I salute you. :D
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2005 at 01:21
I fully agree.  APC organizes their music in a way most bands won't touch, and I've always thought them to be art rock.  They should definitely be on here.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2007 at 09:33
On last.fm, over 1500 people have tagged A Perfect Circle as "progressive rock." They are the 10th on the list of bands most commonly tagged as "progressive rock," above Jethro Tull, Genesis, Frank Zappa and Emerson Lake and Palmer.

Also, the Dutch Progressive Rock Page recommends APC's album "Emotive."

I don't have a strong opinion, but it is clear that quite a lot of people view APC as progressive.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2007 at 09:37
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

I am a huge TOOL and APC fan and I agree with you.



where would you suggest they could go?


edit.... I'm catching a vibe that they could be AR material


Edited by micky - November 13 2007 at 09:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2007 at 09:42
I've only heard Mer de Noms (which I don't particularly like), so I can't say anything about the other album mentioned here. Since the one I have doesn't strike me as really prog, I was quite surprised when I heard APC tagged as such. This is not surprising in itself, because Coheed & Cambria are also considered prog by many sources, and here they got into Prog-Related after a long struggle. I suppose APC could be suggested for PR too, unless someone has a better idea of where to put them.
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