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Topic ClosedStephen Hawking vs Richard Feynman

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Poll Question: who of these phycesists are / were the most important
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [23.08%]
10 [76.92%]
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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2014 at 17:49
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Howe about the power of music , how can music " mannipulate feelings in humans (emotivness) , ironicly musicians with no clue of chemistry or physics can create a fusion of contrasted rythems, harmonies, melodies, frequencies, dynamic range, distortion, created through sound waves vibrations in space perhaps, someplace between the source of music and you as a input of the music "strange" things hapoens, which makes us even cry, get violent, get enthimusiastic, sad etc

Is this psychology or is it biology and therfore chemestry -> physics?
Aren't musicians the work a day physicists in that they are constantly, though growing almost oblivious to the fact, manipulating sound and vibrations? Good Vibrations as Brian Wilson once opined?
Simple answer: No they are not, in exactly the same way that eating fish doesn't make you a marine biologist or being awarded a gold star in kindergarten for producing a nice picture doesn't make you an astronomer.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2014 at 06:10
Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Howe about the power of music , how can music " mannipulate feelings in humans (emotivness) , ironicly musicians with no clue of chemistry or physics can create a fusion of contrasted rythems, harmonies, melodies, frequencies, dynamic range, distortion, created through sound waves vibrations in space perhaps, someplace between the source of music and you as a input of the music "strange" things hapoens, which makes us even cry, get violent, get enthimusiastic, sad etc

Is this psychology or is it biology and therfore chemestry -> physics?
I guess that one could say that psychology is physics taken to its ultimate complexity level. But along the way up the complexity ladder there seems to be some point were the physics is not anymore describable by our usual understanding of laws of physics, precise mathematical equations, at some point it seems likely that other things such as "principles", "trends", "patterns", "attractors" etc take over definite mathematical laws. There has been some progress in the study of complexity and mostly it has result in identification of some general principles, pattern trends etc rather than any mathematical equations in the traditional physics sense (that's why many hardcore physicists still hesitate to recognise complexity as a real branch of physics in the same rank as the traditional areas).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2014 at 09:50
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Howe about the power of music , how can music " mannipulate feelings in humans (emotivness) , ironicly musicians with no clue of chemistry or physics can create a fusion of contrasted rythems, harmonies, melodies, frequencies, dynamic range, distortion, created through sound waves vibrations in space perhaps, someplace between the source of music and you as a input of the music "strange" things hapoens, which makes us even cry, get violent, get enthimusiastic, sad etc

Is this psychology or is it biology and therfore chemestry -> physics?
Aren't musicians the work a day physicists in that they are constantly, though growing almost oblivious to the fact, manipulating sound and vibrations? Good Vibrations as Brian Wilson once opined?
Simple answer: No they are not, in exactly the same way that eating fish doesn't make you a marine biologist or being awarded a gold star in kindergarten for producing a nice picture doesn't make you an astronomer.
Does this mean that I can't split an atom with my stratocaster? The grand kids are going to be so disappointed on the 4th. Unhappy


Edited by SteveG - July 02 2014 at 09:52
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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2014 at 13:21
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Howe about the power of music , how can music " mannipulate feelings in humans (emotivness) , ironicly musicians with no clue of chemistry or physics can create a fusion of contrasted rythems, harmonies, melodies, frequencies, dynamic range, distortion, created through sound waves vibrations in space perhaps, someplace between the source of music and you as a input of the music "strange" things hapoens, which makes us even cry, get violent, get enthimusiastic, sad etc

Is this psychology or is it biology and therfore chemestry -> physics?
Aren't musicians the work a day physicists in that they are constantly, though growing almost oblivious to the fact, manipulating sound and vibrations? Good Vibrations as Brian Wilson once opined?
Simple answer: No they are not, in exactly the same way that eating fish doesn't make you a marine biologist or being awarded a gold star in kindergarten for producing a nice picture doesn't make you an astronomer.
Does this mean that I can't split an atom with my stratocaster? The grand kids are going to be so disappointed on the 4th. Unhappy
No but you can explain them that music and harmony were considered a pure science by Pythagoras and Co.
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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2014 at 13:29
Confused they still are "pure science" - the physics of why two tones are harmonic or not hasn't changed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2014 at 12:24
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

I've read that Stephen Hawking doesn't believe there can be a Theory of Everything due to Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.
Several very clever people have said that at some moment, but most more modern reviews of the subject by very clever people conclude that one thing has nothing to do with the other. Godel's theorem basically says that any sufficiently complex formal system (and which complies with a couple of requirements such as arithmetic does) will have undecidable propositions. Translated into a physics theory this would mean that even if we knew the "Theory Of Everything", the theory would predict (or allow) the possibility of things which we could never know if they do actually happen in the physical world or they don't, even if we never observe them we could never prove that they can not or do not happen, the theory would remain necessarily undecissive about it.
An analogy is the decidability of the randomness of a sequences of numbers. We can never prove that a sequence of numbers is truly random, but we can prove that it is not random by finding a more compressed form. Not finding any more compressed form is not a proof that it is uncompressible (truly random), it can be that it truly is or it can be that we have not yet found the compression algorithm.
A different angle to the question is that knowing a theory does not equal to knowing or even being in principle able to know its manifestations. Quantum theory has the famous Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, we know the mathematical theory but it tells us that we can never know precisely certain features of the world. Similarly, there are theories we know mathematically (such as general relativity) for which computing solutions is in practice is often impossible. And yet another take is chaos physics, where knowing the mathematical theory does not help in being able to know what the system will do after a short time.
A Theory Of Everything, even if it exists and it could ever be found, does not absolutely mean that we could know, deduce or compute much about the physical world. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2016 at 01:58
hurra for science and the next noble price winner in physics for the discovery of gravitational waves, now i will take out my surf board.
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