Union: Yes
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=100894
Printed Date: April 30 2024 at 12:43
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Topic: Union: Yes
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Union: Yes
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 09:56
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We're sailing through turbulent seas with this oddity. 1991's Yes album Union seems to be it's most dividing effort with people calling it everything from a fractured disaster to one of Yes's best albums! If you're unfamiliar, this album combined both late 80/early 90's versions of Yes and ABWH groups with everyone on the record, but not on all of the same songs at the same time. The only person missing from this record company orchestrated brainstorm was Patrick Moraz! So, what's your opinion on 1991's Union?
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Replies:
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 10:01
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It's one of only 2 Yes albums I have never heard or owned (Open Your Eyes is the other). Maybe someday. I'm in no real hurry, though I don't dislike 80s Yes at all. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: LearsFool
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 10:25
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I have to agree with grumpy old Wakeman on this one. So I take after him and call it Onion; in my case, though, rather than make me cry, it just hurts my eyes. Well, my ears. It was just poorly put together. The two Yes-s didn't perform together, they went in two different directions, and the record company's real sin was the mixing job they did. Just a disaster.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 10:52
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Pretty poor all round really. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 10:58
| I don't mind it, it has some good tracks on it. They've made worse albums. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 14:37
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ummm...rarely played, largely forgettable. Give me Talk, BG anyday. Too many members in the mix but hey it is now a historic event in the Yes library ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 15:25
| I played the cassette in the car a lot for a while going back over 20 years. I remember meeting Gary Moore's brother some years ago and he thought it a special album and one of their best interestingly. I haven't played it for ages admittedly but then that goes for lots of albums including ELP's Black Moon which I still rate as decent. I don't believe it to be a bad album , in fact Yes never made a bad album in my opinion although it probably would be a 2-3 star album along with maybe a few others that have been already named in this thread. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 16:05
It would have made a great 45rpm single... "I Would Have Waited Forever" as the A side and "Shock to the System" as the B side  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 16:36
^This!  ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 16:40
No room for Angkor Wat
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 16:50
^We'll make it an EP then!  ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 17:02
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I wouldn't trash it nor would I recommend it. To me it is more of a completely missed opportunity. All those supreme talents together and the result just blah. I had a copy at one point and have no idea what happened to it. Must not have missed it very much because honestly when first reading this thread I thought Union still occupied a place in my collection. I guess that kind of sums it up, an easily forgettable album. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 22:40
Yeah, my two favourite songs from the album... well, plus "The more we Live - Let Go", which I really love too. Besides this ones, the album is OK, but nothing I really want to listen. Also, what bothers me about this album... at least the ABWH songs, is that they are suposed to not really have the band playing in all of it, but has session musicians replacing the band members... specially in the case of Howe, I think there's very little of him left on this songs. I think some sort of single was actually released with this two songs before the album was released which contained the songs before the were tampered and overdubbed... I would really like to listen to them (and even better, get those versions). |
The.Crimson.King wrote:Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 07 2015 at 22:49
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Its main problem is editing, there are at least 3 too many cuts. It would've done wonders for both quality and quantity. Then you'd have a failed but damn good experiment instead of the anticlimactic and unfulfilling thing we got. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: January 13 2015 at 22:38
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It's only their 5th worst album for my tastes, behind Talk, Big Generator, The Ladder, Open Your Eyes. And that is without the last 3 albums counted, as I only subjected myself to short clips. Union gets extra credit as well because of the amazing tour that accompanied. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: January 14 2015 at 00:38
| I think that woulld be more Mr Wakeman's solos on the album. Anyway, it's terrible underrated; there are some great songs actually. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 22 2015 at 07:04
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I used to like it a few years ago but these days I only like Lift Me Up. one of the band's least inspired albums to put it gently. |
Posted By: Flight123
Date Posted: January 22 2015 at 07:27
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I would agree that the concert was great (London, June 1991), which also turned out to be the last time I wanted to see Yes! |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: January 22 2015 at 08:05
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Although it is a rather inconsistent album, I quite liked it when it came out, but I got very disappointed when I started reading all the nasty stories of how the album was made. The album liner notes portrayed an image of friendship and unity among all the members which was completely false, and that pissed me off, it was just a commercial product conspiracy between Anderson, Rabin and producer Jonathan Elias. The 'recording together' never happened, it was all overdubbing, Elias chopping and digitally modifying all the Wakeman's takes, most of Howe's playing being replaced by stunt studio guitarist Jimmy Haun... it was all a joke and that destroyed for me the album, an album should never be released which does not have the consent of the musicians on the final product. But there are some good songs in it.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 22 2015 at 10:32
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^Yes, I doubt anyone thinks of this album as a gem and it does have "commercial opportunity" written all over it. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 22 2015 at 11:41
| Had this album since its release. I think it's better than ABWH, only song I skip is Saving My Heart. I thought that having 13 folks involved in relation to keyboards was overkill, so it has been way overworked, but I do enjoy it for the most part. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 23 2015 at 09:14
^this....bought it used twice and traded it in twice.  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 23 2015 at 11:53
| A nice thing to have on vinyl - I bought mine off a friend for 6 bucks !! |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 23 2015 at 14:57
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: January 23 2015 at 15:26
There were more Yes alumni not around: Peter Banks, Trevor Horn and Geoff Downes come to mind. I don't think it's really bad, even given the fact that lots of stuff on the album was played by session musicians, who were being payed hush money. Actually, the songs I like most are Saving My Heart and Lift Me Up by Trevor Rabin, and Shock To The System which was probably ABWH, so the more commercial stuff. Angkor Wat is not what it could be IMHO. I would give it 2 stars, or 2,5 if that would be possible. It's not completely devoid of quality. |
Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: January 23 2015 at 15:34
in the eyes of these people, they might as well be praising you in that regard, lol. ------------- Progrockdude |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: January 23 2015 at 15:44
| Well it's better than Big Generator, if that's any consolation... I might even like it more than The Ladder which is not a bad album |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 23 2015 at 18:27
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Just a thought.......... Maybe, just maybe, Heaven And Earth is the better album. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 23 2015 at 20:03
| Now, thinking about it, I don't understant why did Anderson or whomever was making the decisions about the album, decided to use session musicians. I mean, even if Howe and Wakeman might not have been in their best disposition to contribute and make an effort on this album, they ended up in contact with the West line-up of Yes, so they might just as well have asked for the help of Rabin and Kaye to give the touches the music needed... at least that would have been more honest for the concept of the album (though I doubt that Howe and Wakeman would have been much more pleased, anyway). |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: January 24 2015 at 00:53
| ^ Indeed having 8 musicians of Yes caliber at your disposal and ending up using session musicians for the job is pretty weird. Probably Rabin would not have been able to replicate Howe's style as well as Jimmy Haun did, and possibly the same with Kaye and Wakeman. |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: January 24 2015 at 02:44
I enjoyed that album, but not as much as ABWH, but more than Big Generator, Open your Eyes, Talk, the latest and even 9125. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: January 24 2015 at 10:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Raror_qf8dg" rel="nofollow - Lift Me Up is a great tune 
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Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: January 24 2015 at 12:34
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It would have been much better with fewer tracks. "Without Hope You Cannot Start the Day" strikes me as compositionally weak. "The More We Live" and "Angkor Wat" are good but sound a bit muddy. And following those tracks with "Dangerous" and "Holding On" really saps the life out of the album for me. IMHO, they should have ditched the songs after Angkor Wat and changed the order of the tracks to give the album a stronger finish. BTW, I really like "Silent Talking" because it starts out with some Fragilesque staccato goodness and ands with a nice dose of bright-eyed, dreamy Andersonia.
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: January 24 2015 at 13:18
From what I read from the Yes people (Wakeman?) it was the producer and record company's album.
et two rivaling bands, each claiming to be the real Yes ( Yes West and Yes East) in the studio
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 24 2015 at 17:39
| ^ Hmmmm, interesting theory......... |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 24 2015 at 17:46
My opinion And it's sad, I saw Yes for the first time on stage for the Onion Tour in Miami, I was impressed with the show so bought the album (overpriced) at the entrance and a beautiful T-Shirt (Damn expensive). Today I use the CD as an expensive coaster. Iván
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 24 2015 at 18:04
we need a good CD coaster thread... my favorite coasters are the Flower Kings albums I bought when trying to explore them. urggg... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 24 2015 at 18:11
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bottoms up!!! http://s5.photobucket.com/user/magnification01/media/SDC14740_zpspxcxcgi6.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: January 24 2015 at 18:46
I still have my vinyl copy of Union in a perfect condition; I bought it in March 1992.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 25 2015 at 00:04
I rather understand they didn't have them available together, but still, I would guess they could have made a bit of effort to do something like that. Even better still, they could have made the effort to have Howe play his parts and re-do them if necessary. I mean, whatever do you want a guitar player of the caliber of Howe, just to replace his guitar parts with an unkown player (though perhaps competent enough to do the job). |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 25 2015 at 00:09
Yeah, this sounds about right. Up to the 5th point it all sounds promising enough given the situation. As far as I understand, for the ABWH the seesion bass player they use is Tony Levin, so that's not bad at all (plus, he is the bass player on the first ABWH album anyway)... however, if they are joining both versions of Yes, they could have gotten Squire involved with the ABWH songs (well, they did get him for backing vocals on one of them). Oh yeah, and this Jonathan Elias you speak about, he sounds like a a** h*l*. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 25 2015 at 02:29
you often get 2 for the price of 1 as well Mike Oldfield's latest album might be a contender although I might listen to it again one day
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 25 2015 at 06:29
damnit.. wish I had known that before shelling out for those expensive drink coasters (always a hit when we have 'prog' friends over to our place). Of course I would have settled for less fanboy reviews and some just saying the music was as progressive as my left toe and just a rehash of things done, and done SO much better decades earlier. Funny though. I do have 3 levels of Micky hate.. the top.. famously only reached by one group.. one album.. the album sucked.. plenty of those do.. the difference being the group was/is very dear to my heart and listening preferences. the middle.. groups/albums like the Flower Kings. It is prog you know, in order to know it, you must explore it and in doing so some times you end up with stinkers and albums/groups just aren't to ones tastes. No real animosity, so I keep the albums and find creative uses for them around the house. the last... the obvious not to tastes AND suck while at it. The DT's of the prog world. Those get the worst punishment of all, not going out in a spectacular blaze of glory, to live infamously through countless retellings on the internet, nor being the centerpiece of convservations at Palazzo di Prog.. oh no.. both of those are too good for this last tier. They simply sit on the wall of music never to be touched again, much less ever see the innards of my CD player again. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: January 25 2015 at 07:07
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIT17Npqgk" rel="nofollow - Shock To The System is a great tune
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Posted By: Star_Song_Age_Less
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 01:27
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Union is spotty but there are a few songs on it that I love. "Lift Me Up," "I Would Have Waited Forever," and "Miracle of Life." Especially that last one. I can't stand many, many of the other songs, though. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/JamieKernMusic |