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Topic: Kansas in the top 100Posted By: zwordser
Subject: Kansas in the top 100
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 16:00
I just noticed that Kansas's Leftoverture has entered the PA top 100 for the first time that I can remember since being a member of PA. As of typing this, it is sitting right at 100.
Now I realize that the PA top 100 is based on multiple ratings by site members, but to answer the question, think of your top 100 prog albums and answer whether or not you personally think Leftoverture belongs there. If not, do you think any of Kansas's albums should be in the top 100 best all-time prog albums?
------------- Z
Replies: Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 16:06
I didn't vote yet...have to think on this one. I am a fan of Kansas though and really like all the early ones up to and including Point of Know Return. I might prefer Song For America but still not sure about where they fit into the top 100.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 17:30
When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under.
Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100. But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership.
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 17:54
Option #4 for me.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 18:07
I want to say option 5, but, for the moment, I don't think I have enough prog records - let alone Kansas records - to make a final vote.
Maqsue was the first one I listened to and I think that was the best.
------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 18:16
Their best imo and certainly deserves to be in the top-100, perhaps along with Point of Know Return
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 18:25
ClemofNazareth wrote:
When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under.
Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100. But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership.
Never tried the Proto-Kaw stuff, you would recommend it?
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 18:30
Kansas are easily one of the best prog rock bands ever !!! very few prog bands come close (listen to Magnum Opus, Cheyenne Anthem, Miracles out of Nowhere ... etc ) ... top 100 is a complete insult and shows us how musically illiterate most people on prog archives really are. One of the main reasons I don't visit this site that often is members tend to hold crap up as God and God up as crap , it gets a bit much in the end ... Here is proof of my theory http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=4160" rel="nofollow - Voyage Of The Acolyte 98 ? anybody who knows anything about prog knows this Steve Hackett album is probably better than anything Genesis ever released or up there with their best ??? 98 ? its some kind of joke I`m telling you ! The top hundred list is Kmart prog .. the type of prog you find in Kmart its really not indicative of the true nature of things and how real prog heads feel .... Kansas were 80% full progressive rock in the 70's Kansas also got voted Best AOR song of all time with Carry on wayward son .. which makes Kansas head and shoulders above most bands on this site. The diversity of Kansas and their spirit is really what prog is all about , they simply refused to conform with the Kmart fads , Don Kirshner loved that about them ... All Hail - Livgren , Walsh , Steinhardt , Ehart , Williams , Hope or be trapped in your small world of Kmart prog forever !
and my last snide remark .. Kansas eats Camel for dinner how Camel is above Kansas is staggering ! theres not a single strength Camel has on Kansas in any area ... its just really weird , Something against American prog is all I can put it down to, which is really silly.
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 18:38
Last option. They've always felt prog-related to me.
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 18:55
The Truth wrote:
ClemofNazareth wrote:
When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under.
Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100. But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership.
Never tried the Proto-Kaw stuff, you would recommend it?
Definitely.
The back story for 'Early Recordings' alone should be enough to interest most prog fans. These are mostly Livgren-penned songs written as far back as 1970 and originally recorded by an early Kansas lineup that predates any of current or former members besides Kerry. There are a couple songs that were re-recorded by the more famous Kansas lineup. 'Before Came After' features completed or at least reworked bits and pieces of stuff from the early days, while 'The Wait of Glory' is comprised of new material and showcases a group of very mature musicians with a tight sound along the lines of Salem Hill, Crack the Sky, IQ. I wasn't as impressed with 'Forth' but there were some issues with keeping the group together by that point given they all had day jobs and none of them were inclined to try and make a full-time go of it.
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus
Posted By: bj_waters
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 19:17
Still too new to vote, but I'd say it belongs, though I'd push for Point of Know Return being up higher.
Posted By: infernalfrog
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 19:24
If that Dream Theater crap is on the top 100, why not the good old Kansas?
Posted By: Wakeman's Birotron
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 19:57
Song for America sure belongs in my top 100. Leftoverture is a close second, so it probably belongs there too.
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 03:58
I voted for the bottom option. I like some Kansas albums but none are better than 4 stars for me. My favourite is probably the very late in the day Somewhere To Elsewhere. A band that are much better in the live arena imo.
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 04:01
infernalfrog wrote:
If that Dream Theater crap is on the top 100, why not the good old Kansas?
there are a lot of albums that should be in the top 100 that are not. Most obvious to me Rick Wakeman - Six Wives of Henry VIII , one of the best symphonic prog albums packed with tremendous memorable melodies outstanding playing and defined the use of keyboard in prog.
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 04:46
I'm one of those people who don't consider Kansas to be prog at all.
------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 05:39
Enchant X wrote:
Kansas are easily one of the best prog rock bands ever !!! very few prog bands come close (listen to Magnum Opus, Cheyenne Anthem, Miracles out of Nowhere ... etc ) ... top 100 is a complete insult and shows us how musically illiterate most people on prog archives really are. One of the main reasons I don't visit this site that often is members tend to hold crap up as God and God up as crap , it gets a bit much in the end ... Here is proof of my theory http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=4160" rel="nofollow - Voyage Of The Acolyte 98 ? anybody who knows anything about prog knows this Steve Hackett album is probably better than anything Genesis ever released or up there with their best ??? 98 ? its some kind of joke I`m telling you ! The top hundred list is Kmart prog .. the type of prog you find in Kmart its really not indicative of the true nature of things and how real prog heads feel .... Kansas were 80% full progressive rock in the 70's Kansas also got voted Best AOR song of all time with Carry on wayward son .. which makes Kansas head and shoulders above most bands on this site. The diversity of Kansas and their spirit is really what prog is all about , they simply refused to conform with the Kmart fads , Don Kirshner loved that about them ... All Hail - Livgren , Walsh , Steinhardt , Ehart , Williams , Hope or be trapped in your small world of Kmart prog forever !
and my last snide remark .. Kansas eats Camel for dinner how Camel is above Kansas is staggering ! theres not a single strength Camel has on Kansas in any area ... its just really weird , Something against American prog is all I can put it down to, which is really silly.
Oh look, the lesser spotted self righteous obnoxious tit, you don't see those very often anymore.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 06:19
Looking at the Top 250, there are many albums that some might find surprising to be outside the Top 100 (for example "Songs From The Wood", "Phaedra", "For Girls Who Grow Plump In The Night", "Brain Salad Surgery" etc). But obviously the Top 100 albums can only include one hundred albums, regardless of subgenre, decade, or where the band is from. There are over fortysix thousand albums listed on PA, so less than 0.25% of them can be in the Top 100 at any time.
------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 07:10
Personally I don't care about the top anything. It's just a list. How many albums in the top 100 one really likes? Is there anybody who an say he enjoys the whole top 100?
I can't stand with #3, at least not the whole in one shot.
------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 07:22
Stool Man wrote:
Looking at the Top 250, there are many albums that some might find surprising to be outside the Top 100 (for example "Songs From The Wood", "Phaedra", "For Girls Who Grow Plump In The Night", "Brain Salad Surgery" etc). But obviously the Top 100 albums can only include one hundred albums, regardless of subgenre, decade, or where the band is from. There are over fortysix thousand albums listed on PA, so less than 0.25% of them can be in the Top 100 at any time.
This. Personally, I don't agree with many of the albums that are currently part of the Top 100, but that's democracy for you. Obviously, if ratings are taken into account, it is not surprising to see a non-prog album (though a masterpiece by every other name) such as Miles Davis' Kind of Blue rank very high in the Top 100. That being said, I don't think Leftoverture's inclusion in the Top 100 is any more puzzling than that of quite a few other albums.
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 07:31
Stool Man wrote:
I'm one of those people who don't consider Kansas to be prog at all.
You mean, "wrong?"
ClemofNazareth wrote:
The Truth wrote:
ClemofNazareth wrote:
When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in
the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under.
Sure,
I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to
Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100.
But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with
their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most
American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our
membership.
Never tried the Proto-Kaw stuff, you would recommend it?
Definitely.
The back story
for 'Early Recordings' alone should be enough to interest most prog
fans. These are mostly Livgren-penned songs written as far back as 1970
and originally recorded by an early Kansas lineup that predates any of
current or former members besides Kerry. There are a couple songs that
were re-recorded by the more famous Kansas lineup. 'Before Came After'
features completed or at least reworked bits and pieces of stuff from
the early days, while 'The Wait of Glory' is comprised of new material
and showcases a group of very mature musicians with a tight sound along
the lines of Salem Hill, Crack the Sky, IQ. I wasn't as impressed with
'Forth' but there were some issues with keeping the group together by
that point given they all had day jobs and none of them were inclined to
try and make a full-time go of it.
I, too, remember when Point of Know Return was on the list.
Incidentally, they have a documentary coming out this spring with all the original members featured on it, as well as commentary from other artists like Garth Brooks and Brian May. The trailer looked cool.
Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 07:35
Stool Man wrote:
I'm one of those people who don't consider Kansas to be prog at all.
Same here. Also, I don't see how it's lower than albums like Trespass in the Symphonic Prog section but higher in the overall. Is it a slightly different rating system to include all the genres?
Posted By: progpositivity
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 07:45
Kansas strikes me as the kind of intricate-minded rock band that could both win over enough AORiented fans to land an album in the top 100 prog, but also to get tagged as "not prog" by enough members to end up with a lot of members voting that album as not belonging in the top 100. Even many of their proggiest albums were a combo of prog and other less complex rock forms.
I do recommend the Proto-Kaw albums btw.
------------- Positively the best Prog and Fusion 24/7! http://www.progpositivity.com
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 07:46
Xonty wrote:
Stool Man wrote:
I'm one of those people who don't consider Kansas to be prog at all.
Same here. Also, I don't see how it's lower than albums like Trespass in the Symphonic Prog section but higher in the overall. Is it a slightly different rating system to include all the genres?
It has to do with the number of albums involved. Obviously, there are more albums in the entire database than there are in one sub-genre. The number of entries affects the "query weighted rating" (different from the regular rating) of the album, which then affects its place on the chart. Chart rankings are calculated by a weighted average.
That's why it's easier for a Progressive Electronic album to break the top 20 of that sub-genre than it is for a Symphonic album to do so, but both of these albums would have to compete against ALL the albums on the site for the homepage list.
Leftoverture has a QWR of 4.1816 when looking at all albums, while Trespass has 4.1535 (one place below Ashes Are Burning even). However, when focusing only on symphonic albums, Trespass has a 4.1262 while Leftoverture has 4.1198 (just one place above Ashes Are Burning).
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 08:08
sleeper wrote:
Enchant X wrote:
Kansas are easily one of the best prog rock bands ever !!! very few prog bands come close (listen to Magnum Opus, Cheyenne Anthem, Miracles out of Nowhere ... etc ) ... top 100 is a complete insult and shows us how musically illiterate most people on prog archives really are. One of the main reasons I don't visit this site that often is members tend to hold crap up as God and God up as crap , it gets a bit much in the end ... Here is proof of my theory http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=4160" rel="nofollow - Voyage Of The Acolyte 98 ? anybody who knows anything about prog knows this Steve Hackett album is probably better than anything Genesis ever released or up there with their best ??? 98 ? its some kind of joke I`m telling you ! The top hundred list is Kmart prog .. the type of prog you find in Kmart its really not indicative of the true nature of things and how real prog heads feel .... Kansas were 80% full progressive rock in the 70's Kansas also got voted Best AOR song of all time with Carry on wayward son .. which makes Kansas head and shoulders above most bands on this site. The diversity of Kansas and their spirit is really what prog is all about , they simply refused to conform with the Kmart fads , Don Kirshner loved that about them ... All Hail - Livgren , Walsh , Steinhardt , Ehart , Williams , Hope or be trapped in your small world of Kmart prog forever !
and my last snide remark .. Kansas eats Camel for dinner how Camel is above Kansas is staggering ! theres not a single strength Camel has on Kansas in any area ... its just really weird , Something against American prog is all I can put it down to, which is really silly.
Oh look, the lesser spotted self righteous obnoxious tit, you don't see those very often anymore.
this forum really does have FAR too many Genesis fans, definitely too many Camel fans, not enough trolls, and DEFINITELY not enough tits.
that said.. he is right... Many here do have sh*t for tastes. That Hackett album wipes the floor with anything Genesis did, and doesn't that list have every single Genesis album before you hit one ELP album.
Makes one sad to be associated with this forum. I remember mentioning this site at Nearfest once.. and being laughed at. and that was BEFORE Camel beat ELP twice in popularity polls here
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 08:25
Indeed the Top 100 merges the favourites of so many different people that it can't be representative of the favourite albums of anybody in particular. It's only normal that it includes many albums which I do not like and omits many of my favourites.
Personally Leftoverture and Two For The Show (if live albums counted) are certainly in my Top 100.
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 08:38
Gerinski wrote:
Indeed the Top 100 merges the favourites of so many different people that it can't be representative of the favourite albums of anybody in particular. It's only normal that it includes many albums which I do not like and omits many of my favourites.
Personally Leftoverture and Two For The Show (if live albums counted) are certainly in my Top 100.
the top 100 list really is sort of pointless. It definitely is a reflection more of popularity more than anything else. The more interesting lists are the ones that try to interject some objectivity into them. It really serves more as conversation piece than anything else. Entertainment more than education. Any list that has a album released within the last year in the top 40 albums... really isn't worth much of anything OTHER than pure entertainment for the occasional person like the forum tit earlier than got worked up about it. Or even more mature questioning like Bob had here. Anyone has half a brain (raising stick) and knows anything (starts downswing) about prog rock knows (makes contact with dead horse) that ELP created some of the most important, and enduring albums in prog rock. You'd never know it based on the list. Of course Kansas doesn't come close to that example, but they do share the common ground that those that love them.. LOVE THEM.. and those that dislike them.. LOATHE them. Sort of hard an impression on a popularity list with that kind of polar divide.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: crrolf
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 09:00
Personally, I'm 1,400 albums deep into prog, and I'd like to think Leftoverture is in the Top 100 on my list, and would be the only Kansas album on my Top 100. That being said, I believe the PA rating system determines if its in or not. When I scored each song individually, Leftoverture was highest. Point of Know Return, unfortunately received too much commercial time and hasn't held the test of time. The best thing about prog is that everyone's interests are different, therefore any two of us would not have the same Top 100. Also, our tastes change over time, especially those following all of the new prog releases.
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 11:06
micky wrote:
the top 100 list really is sort of pointless. It definitely is a reflection more of popularity more than anything else. The more interesting lists are the ones that try to interject some objectivity into them. It really serves more as conversation piece than anything else. Entertainment more than education. Any list that has a album released within the last year in the top 40 albums... really isn't worth much of anything OTHER than pure entertainment for the occasional person like the forum tit earlier than got worked up about it. Or even more mature questioning like Bob had here. Anyone has half a brain (raising stick) and knows anything (starts downswing) about prog rock knows (makes contact with dead horse) that ELP created some of the most important, and enduring albums in prog rock. You'd never know it based on the list. Of course Kansas doesn't come close to that example, but they do share the common ground that those that love them.. LOVE THEM.. and those that dislike them.. LOATHE them. Sort of hard an impression on a popularity list with that kind of polar divide.
Yeah, it has to be taken for what it is, nothing more than that. And what it definitely IS NOT is a list of 'the 100 most important albums in Prog's history', or 'the essential Top 100 albums in Prog', or anything of the sort.
Fully agree about ELP, in any list of the sort I just mentioned they would have several albums in very high position.
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 11:17
For God's sake, they were making Prog along with the pioneers of the genre, they added that distinctive country touch that makes the Symphonic and Hard Rock blend richer.
People don't have a problem with Supertramp (Who have some very proggy stuff), but always are harsh on a 100% Prog band as Kansas
Whoever thinks this is not Prog
Should see an ear doctor
Kansas is in my top 5 Prog bands
-------------
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 11:38
After going through the top 100 albums listed here there are a handful of albums/bands that I would rate lower than Kansas' Left Overture but that always comes down to personal preference and subjectivity.
As far as Kansas albums , the track itself 'Song For America' is my personal favorite, though all the early albums are solid and about equal in overall quality of music for me.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 11:38
Kansas is cursed with several stigmas: 1) the anti-American bias that permeates this forum (yes, it's there, so don't even argue about it), 2) they actually sold albums (King Crimson never sold albums, therefore they must be great prog), 3) they were liked by non-prog listeners (a reason why Pink Floyd can't possibly be prog), and 4) they were unfortunately lumped in with the corporate rock quagmire of the late 70s (StyxBostonForeignerREOSpeedwagonJourney, et al) that eventually destroyed rock as we knew it.
But they are prog, stigmatically-speaking.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Posted By: zwordser
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 12:15
ClemofNazareth wrote:
When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under.
Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100. But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership.
Do you remember how long Leftoverture and Point of Know Return stayed in the top 100? Either one or both may have been in when I joined (in late 2008) and I just don't remember.
You may be right that American bands are somewhat 'discounted' by a good portion of the membership here--I'm not sure.
------------- Z
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 12:32
The Dark Elf wrote:
Kansas is cursed with several stigmas:
1) the anti-American bias that permeates this forum (yes, it's there, so don't even argue about it,
2) they actually sold albums (King Crimson never sold albums, therefore they must be great prog),
3) they were liked by non-prog listeners (a reason why Pink Floyd can't possibly be prog), and they were unfortunately lumped in with the corporate rock quagmire of the late 70s (StyxBostonForeignerREOSpeedwagonJourney, et al) that eventually destroyed rock as we knew it.
But they are prog, stigmatically-speaking.
oh hell yeah. Well said.
Agree with you 100% on all those points.
Again I think they suffer PA's ELPitis... some write them off completely; either because of being American, commercially successful and tossed in with the AOR/Stadium rock groups.. and even some who don't summarily write them off.. simply don't care much for what they actually were doing to rate them highly. IMO they are good group.. but far from a great one.
Like ELP they'll struggle to get a album or two in the top 100. Even ELP only has one and they did far more important and adventurous stuff. It doesn't take much to turn people off it seems... you even have people hating on Yes because of.. Jon Anderson.. hello.. WHO listens to Yes for Anderson. You do for Squire, Howe, and whichever all-world caliber keyboardist they have in teh band at that moment.
For me.. oh yeah prog.. but like Richard noted earlier.. I never saw any of their albums worthy of anything more than 3 or 4 stars. Good group... not a great one.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 12:56
micky wrote:
you even have people hating on Yes because of.. Jon Anderson.. hello.. WHO listens to Yes for Anderson. You do for Squire, Howe, and whichever all-world caliber keyboardist they have in teh band at that moment.
Hey I listen YES for Howe, Squire and Howe, but Anderson ruins the experience.
Nevertheless I seen them, several times on stage and will go every time I have a chance.
-------------
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 13:26
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
micky wrote:
you even have people hating on Yes because of.. Jon Anderson.. hello.. WHO listens to Yes for Anderson. You do for Squire, Howe, and whichever all-world caliber keyboardist they have in teh band at that moment.
Hey I listen YES for Howe, Squire and Howe, but Anderson ruins the experience.
Nevertheless I seen them, several times on stage and will go every time I have a chance.
yeah... I can dig that. If a vocalist turns you wrong.. then the music itself often can't save the listening experience.
see Camel..
speaking of... there was a poll I saw the other day that had a Captain Beefheart song in it. I didn't know that song... I'm only vaguely familiar with him through Zappa .. and I listened to it.. well did for about a minute before I shut off the damn clip. Urgggg.. art is great man... but I'm into pleasure.. not pain.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: sublime220
Date Posted: February 08 2015 at 13:40
I feel that Leftoverture should be higher and have Point of Know Return towards the bottom. Both amazing albums.
------------- There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 04:52
I join the ranks of those who should get out of the room according to Adolf Hitler and vote for option #2. Leftoverture fits quite well in the top 100 and one more album (Point of Know Return) somewhere below would also be fine. Kansas was one of the few US-based prog bands from the classic era.
-------------
Posted By: Libor10
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 09:59
The fact is, any rank couldn't be 100% fair. The same counts for this top 100 prog bands rank. Everyone has it's own tastes and this is average result from these many votes (we could argue about mathematical method of counting these ranks but that's all we can...).
IMO Kansas is fine (although I've always counted them more to proto-prog), but for me it isn't top 100 record band... For example Queen is mainly rock group (in 70's to be precise) and it isn't strange they are not too popular here on progboard. On the other side I'll always count their Queen II album (with definitely prog roots) higher than any other Kansas record. And this one isn't even in 250 rank albums. So what? The world turns around and I'll listen to this one despite of any poll. Because all these polls and ranks are subjective and couldn't be too overestimated.
On the other side - there are a lot of records in the rank 100 I'm definitely satisfied with. For some new prog listener it could be very good "manual" to step inside the progressive rock waters. And maybe this could be very good reason to have this rank here and let it live with it's own life... :-)
Oh well - I voted #5 here.
-------------
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 13:28
Ratings are based more on consistency than inspiration and originality imo. BSS is poison to some because it has a love ballad and some awfull Chas n Dave knock off, so it gets '4 stars' despite the other 36 minutes of sheer brilliance.
That said I don't have any great issue with the top ten albums on the list. Its just the when you get past that it starts to get less meaningful to me. Answer - just publish a top ten on the front of the site. Shimples.
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 13:35
micky wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Kansas is cursed with several stigmas:
1) the anti-American bias that permeates this forum (yes, it's there, so don't even argue about it,
2) they actually sold albums (King Crimson never sold albums, therefore they must be great prog),
3) they were liked by non-prog listeners (a reason why Pink Floyd can't possibly be prog), and they were unfortunately lumped in with the corporate rock quagmire of the late 70s (StyxBostonForeignerREOSpeedwagonJourney, et al) that eventually destroyed rock as we knew it.
But they are prog, stigmatically-speaking.
oh hell yeah. Well said.
Agree with you 100% on all those points.
Pfff... you american ignorants thinking that the rest of the world bought all your lame american rockmusic. King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe. Kansas, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Boston, Kansas and all that crap had had a hit or two but were nowhere near as big over here. They were your local mediocre radiofriendly rockbands that every country in the world has their own local version of.
-------------
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 14:03
Saperlipopette! Just so long as I think you are spouting off about something you know nothing about , how could you ? putting Kansas in the same bracket as those other Rich extremely commercially successful American classic rock bands ... my advice .. listen to a Kansas Album first such as Leftoverture then tell us about the life changing experience otherwise just STFU
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 14:09
some people need to chill - LOL - I'm amazed this thread, of no relevance whatsoever, has already 3 pages.
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 14:42
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Pfff... you american ignorants thinking that the rest of the world bought all your lame american rockmusic. King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe. Kansas, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Boston, Kansas and all that crap had had a hit or two but were nowhere near as big over here. They were your local mediocre radiofriendly rockbands that every country in the world has their own local version of.
A N° 1 LP for a couple of weeks means almost nothing in the musical context.
Prog was never as popular as mainstream as some people want to make us believe, and the prove is this:
1974 was the most prolific year in Prog and this are the UK charts of 1974
01
David Essex
Gonna Make You A Star
02
The Three Degrees
When Will I See You Again
03
Charles Aznavour
She
04
George McCrae
Rock Your Baby
05
Terry Jacks
Seasons In The Sun
06
Paper Lace
Billy, Don't Be A Hero
07
Mud
Tiger Feet
08
The Rubettes
Sugar Baby Love
09
Ken Boothe
Everything I Own
10
Carl Douglas
Kung Fu Fighting
11
Barry White
You're The First, The Last, My Everything
12
John Denver
Annie's Song
13
The Osmonds
Love Me For A Reason
14
Suzi Quatro
Devil Gate Drive
15
The Drifters
Kissin' In The Back Row
16
Abba
Waterloo
17
Showaddywaddy
Hey Rock And Roll
18
The New Seekers
You Won't Find Another Fool Like Me
19
The Stylistics
You Make Me Feel Brand New
20
The Hollies
The Air That I Breathe
21
Wombles
Wombling Song
22
Alvin Stardust
Jealous Mind
23
Ray Stevens
The Streak
24
Sylvia
Y Viva Espana
25
Charlie Rich
The Most Beautiful Girl
26
Donny & Marie Osmond
I'm Leaving It All Up To You
27
Queen
Killer Queen
28
Wombles
Remember You're A Womble
29
The Sweet
Teenage Rampage
30
Mud
Lonely This Christmas
So all the noise about cheesy Americans is absurd.
PS: I'm not from USA and most of the music I listen is from UK and Italy
-------------
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 15:46
Saperlipopette! wrote:
King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe.
Not that it matters, but King Crimson never had a #1 album in the UK. ITCHYCOCK made it to #5 and wasn't certified Gold until 44 years after its release.
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 16:00
Enchant X wrote:
<span id="userPro41" ="msgSidePro" title="View Drop Down">Saperlipopette! </span>Just so long as I think you are spouting off about something you know nothing about , how could you ? putting Kansas in the same bracket as those other Rich extremely commercially successful American classic rock bands ... my advice .. listen to a Kansas Album first such as Leftoverture then tell us about the life changing experience otherwise just STFU
I did that to insult you because you're an idiot. I know Kansas and I can't stand them. thankfully they are as obscure as Starcastle (and Styx for that matter) where I live and unike King Crimson I have never heard them played on the radio.
-------------
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 18:15
In other words, you purposely break forum rules to get you little opinion out.
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 18:16
Epignosis wrote:
Stool Man wrote:
I'm one of those people who don't consider Kansas to be prog at all.
You mean, "wrong?"
heheheheheheh
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Posted By: Walton Street
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 18:23
i know i couldn't care enough one way or the other to call someone an idiot over it.
------------- "I know one thing: that I know nothing"
- SpongeBob Socrates
Posted By: progpositivity
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 19:33
Some of Kansas' songs are prog and some aren't. But certainly 'Magnum Opus' from Leftoverture is.
------------- Positively the best Prog and Fusion 24/7! http://www.progpositivity.com
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 09 2015 at 23:30
Saperlipopette! wrote:
micky wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Kansas is cursed with several stigmas:
1) the anti-American bias that permeates this forum (yes, it's there, so don't even argue about it,
2) they actually sold albums (King Crimson never sold albums, therefore they must be great prog),
3) they were liked by non-prog listeners (a reason why Pink Floyd can't possibly be prog), and they were unfortunately lumped in with the corporate rock quagmire of the late 70s (StyxBostonForeignerREOSpeedwagonJourney, et al) that eventually destroyed rock as we knew it.
But they are prog, stigmatically-speaking.
oh hell yeah. Well said.
Agree with you 100% on all those points.
Pfff... you american ignorants thinking that the rest of the world bought all your lame american rockmusic. King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe. Kansas, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Boston, Kansas and all that crap had had a hit or two but were nowhere near as big over here. They were your local mediocre radiofriendly rockbands that every country in the world has their own local version of.
As I stated previously, American bias. Congratulations on your clueless bigotry. Thanks for proving my point in such a classless manner.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 10 2015 at 10:58
The Dark Elf wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
micky wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Kansas is cursed with several stigmas:
1) the anti-American bias that permeates this forum (yes, it's there, so don't even argue about it,
2) they actually sold albums (King Crimson never sold albums, therefore they must be great prog),
3) they were liked by non-prog listeners (a reason why Pink Floyd can't possibly be prog), and they were unfortunately lumped in with the corporate rock quagmire of the late 70s (StyxBostonForeignerREOSpeedwagonJourney, et al) that eventually destroyed rock as we knew it.
But they are prog, stigmatically-speaking.
oh hell yeah. Well said.
Agree with you 100% on all those points.
Pfff... you american ignorants thinking that the rest of the world bought all your lame american rockmusic. King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe. Kansas, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Boston, Kansas and all that crap had had a hit or two but were nowhere near as big over here. They were your local mediocre radiofriendly rockbands that every country in the world has their own local version of.
As I stated previously, American bias. Congratulations on your clueless bigotry. Thanks for proving my point in such a classless manner.
I rarely agree with The Dark Elf, but this time I can only applaud his last post
Iván
-------------
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: February 10 2015 at 11:25
Yeah, music does not owe anything to America
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: February 10 2015 at 12:58
Saperlipopette! I have been into King Crimson for over 30
years , I own almost everything they have done ! great band inconsistent but great... There's nowhere you have been that I haven't been progressively speaking , that's the difference I know what I`m talking about you just make sh*t up ... by the way Starcastle 's first two albums are great some of their counterpoint is some of the best I've ever heard perhaps even better than Yes .. and Styx had some great albums as well if you bother to examine what you are spouting off about , which clearly is too hard for you to do ....
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: February 10 2015 at 13:45
ClemofNazareth wrote:
When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under.
Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100. But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership.
Dream Theater still gets a fair amount of positive attention, along with the negative. They've got 2 comfortably in the top 100.
I just checked and it looks like Kayo Dot's debut album just nudged Kansas back out.
------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here .
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 10 2015 at 14:05
Raff wrote:
Stool Man wrote:
Looking at the Top 250, there are many albums that some might find surprising to be outside the Top 100 (for example "Songs From The Wood", "Phaedra", "For Girls Who Grow Plump In The Night", "Brain Salad Surgery" etc). But obviously the Top 100 albums can only include one hundred albums, regardless of subgenre, decade, or where the band is from. There are over fortysix thousand albums listed on PA, so less than 0.25% of them can be in the Top 100 at any time.
This. Personally, I don't agree with many of the albums that are currently part of the Top 100, but that's democracy for you. Obviously, if ratings are taken into account, it is not surprising to see a non-prog album (though a masterpiece by every other name) such as Miles Davis' Kind of Blue rank very high in the Top 100. That being said, I don't think Leftoverture's inclusion in the Top 100 is any more puzzling than that of quite a few other albums.
I apparently missed this post and reply the first time around , but I agree with both Stool and Raff.
Having said that I do like Kansas but not sure if any of their albums should be in the 'top 100' or the .25% crowd.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 10 2015 at 14:48
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Pfff... you american ignorants thinking that the rest of the world bought all your lame american rockmusic. King Crimson had a number one album in the UK and several in the top ten there and in many parts of Europe. Kansas, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Boston, Kansas and all that crap had had a hit or two but were nowhere near as big over here. They were your local mediocre radiofriendly rockbands that every country in the world has their own local version of.
A N° 1 LP for a couple of weeks means almost nothing in the musical context.
Prog was never as popular as mainstream as some people want to make us believe, and the prove is this:
1974 was the most prolific year in Prog and this are the UK charts of 1974
01
David Essex
Gonna Make You A Star
02
The Three Degrees
When Will I See You Again
03
Charles Aznavour
She
04
George McCrae
Rock Your Baby
05
Terry Jacks
Seasons In The Sun
06
Paper Lace
Billy, Don't Be A Hero
07
Mud
Tiger Feet
08
The Rubettes
Sugar Baby Love
09
Ken Boothe
Everything I Own
10
Carl Douglas
Kung Fu Fighting
11
Barry White
You're The First, The Last, My Everything
12
John Denver
Annie's Song
13
The Osmonds
Love Me For A Reason
14
Suzi Quatro
Devil Gate Drive
15
The Drifters
Kissin' In The Back Row
16
Abba
Waterloo
17
Showaddywaddy
Hey Rock And Roll
18
The New Seekers
You Won't Find Another Fool Like Me
19
The Stylistics
You Make Me Feel Brand New
20
The Hollies
The Air That I Breathe
21
Wombles
Wombling Song
22
Alvin Stardust
Jealous Mind
23
Ray Stevens
The Streak
24
Sylvia
Y Viva Espana
25
Charlie Rich
The Most Beautiful Girl
26
Donny & Marie Osmond
I'm Leaving It All Up To You
27
Queen
Killer Queen
28
Wombles
Remember You're A Womble
29
The Sweet
Teenage Rampage
30
Mud
Lonely This Christmas
So all the noise about cheesy Americans is absurd.
PS: I'm not from USA and most of the music I listen is from UK and Italy
You do realise that was the UK singles chart and indeed it was total pants as I well remember at the time ( well except The Wombles - they ruled )
Posted By: zwordser
Date Posted: February 10 2015 at 18:08
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
ClemofNazareth wrote:
When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under.
Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100. But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership.
Dream Theater still gets a fair amount of positive attention, along with the negative. They've got 2 comfortably in the top 100.
I just checked and it looks like Kayo Dot's debut album just nudged Kansas back out.
You're sure? I just checked and its still in the 100 spot with Kayo Dot just below, though I know there's a lot of shifting around in that 100 area.
------------- Z
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: February 10 2015 at 22:07
zwordser wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
ClemofNazareth wrote:
When I joined PA 'Leftoverture' and 'Point of Know Return' were both in the Top 100 and 'Song for America' was bubbling a bit under.
Sure, I'd like to see those three as well as 'Masque' and 'Somewhere to Elsewhere', and even the reconstructed first Proto-Kaw in the Top 100. But ultimately that's up to the 50,000+ global membership to decide with their reviews and ratings, and aside from Zappa and Miles Davis most American artists tend to be somewhat discounted by large portions of our membership.
Dream Theater still gets a fair amount of positive attention, along with the negative. They've got 2 comfortably in the top 100.
I just checked and it looks like Kayo Dot's debut album just nudged Kansas back out.
You're sure? I just checked and its still in the 100 spot with Kayo Dot just below, though I know there's a lot of shifting around in that 100 area.
Must be shifting around. Perhaps people have gone to rate various albums they haven't rated already in that part of the spectrum one way or the other.
------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here .
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: February 10 2015 at 23:53
I assure you Kansas output is very relevant .. this thread comes about from Kansas being so underrated . Kansas themselves have given me plenty of prog happiness through the years, its something worth defending with extreme opposition if needs be , Kansas are not just another band , they come from a special planet where great bands come from , its sad for me to see so many people miss the opportunity of enjoying their music based solely on ignorance ... what are you afraid of they might be better than what you hold so dear ... get a copy of Leftoverture and give it the three play rule if its not happening for you then at least you tried.
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 11 2015 at 00:24
Enchant X wrote:
I assure you Kansas output is very relevant .. this thread comes about from Kansas being so underrated . Kansas themselves have given me plenty of prog happiness through the years, its something worth defending with extreme opposition if needs be , Kansas are not just another band , they come from a special planet where great bands come from , its sad for me to see so many people miss the opportunity of enjoying their music based solely on ignorance ... what are you afraid of they might be better than what you hold so dear ... get a copy of Leftoverture and give it the three play rule if its not happening for you then at least you tried.
a lot of people like Kansas, you'd be surprised, but the whole thing of being mad they are not in top 100 or whatever is ridiculous, irrelevant, of no importance yes, they are a great band, I even love their 80s work!
this thread should have been done with after micky's line and I quote: "this forum really does have FAR too many Genesis fans, definitely too
many Camel fans, not enough trolls, and DEFINITELY not enough tits".
None of us can beat that, so might just as well stop
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 11 2015 at 01:48
There seems to be a lot 'taking it very personally' that Kansas are not more respected around here. That's a shame. For me they didn't record a masterpiece and that's not a problem at all and is the sole reason why I believe they do not get more recognition than they may deserve. However this silly obsession with the top 100 is getting annoying. I did suggest earlier in the thread we would be better off without it but there were no takers. A top ten would suffice although I guess there would then be more complaints that Gentle Giant or Rush or whoever are not in but really it just doesn't matter. Get a grip!
Kansas had many great songs and pieces of music and that is way more important. They made the definitive US symphonic prog track Song For America which is an absolute beauty. They can be justifiably proud of that and the fact the album it came from is not in the TOP 100 hit parade is entirely irrelevant. I also like a lot of the 'crossover' material they excelled at and again in general this kind of material does not pick up the 5 star ratings which is quite understandable.
I also don't believe in the anti-USA bias although perhaps that comment was meant as tongue in cheek. I hope it was. I love many albums by USA bands including the likes of Chicago, Mountain , Love , The Tubes and one of my favourite bands of recent times is Glass Hammer who I like more than Kansas . Sorry but that is a matter of taste only (or lack of in my case perhaps).
BTW I would recommend seeing Kansas live. I saw them 10 years ago and they rocked!! One of the best gigs I ever saw. They came off that stage sweating buckets!
Posted By: WrytXander
Date Posted: February 11 2015 at 03:28
To me, Kansas is a much a prog band as Yes or Genesis are. Option 2.
------------- 20+ prog bands discovered and explored in 3 years, still going strong...
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 11 2015 at 14:56
...but the argument is not whether they are 'prog' or not (ignore the WUM's !) but whether they have albums that are masterpieces. imo not.
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: February 11 2015 at 20:33
Epignosis wrote:
Stool Man wrote:
I'm one of those people who don't consider Kansas to be prog at all.
You mean, "wrong?"
How could anyone not consider Kansas prog? This strange thing disturbs me. Aside from a couple of more standard tracks that tend to appear on each of their albums (well, the five albums I know) they're as prog as they come folks.
------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385
Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: February 15 2015 at 19:03
Yes, along with one or more of Kansas's other albums.
------------- When he rides, my fears subside. For darkness turns once more to light. Through the skies, his white horse flies. To find a land beyond the night.
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: February 16 2015 at 21:21
richardh wrote:
There seems to be a lot 'taking it very personally' that Kansas are not more respected around here. That's a shame. For me they didn't record a masterpiece and that's not a problem at all and is the sole reason why I believe they do not get more recognition than they may deserve. However this silly obsession with the top 100 is getting annoying. I did suggest earlier in the thread we would be better off without it but there were no takers. A top ten would suffice although I guess there would then be more complaints that Gentle Giant or Rush or whoever are not in but really it just doesn't matter. Get a grip!
Kansas had many great songs and pieces of music and that is way more important. They made the definitive US symphonic prog track Song For America which is an absolute beauty. They can be justifiably proud of that and the fact the album it came from is not in the TOP 100 hit parade is entirely irrelevant. I also like a lot of the 'crossover' material they excelled at and again in general this kind of material does not pick up the 5 star ratings which is quite understandable.
I also don't believe in the anti-USA bias although perhaps that comment was meant as tongue in cheek. I hope it was. I love many albums by USA bands including the likes of Chicago, Mountain , Love , The Tubes and one of my favourite bands of recent times is Glass Hammer who I like more than Kansas . Sorry but that is a matter of taste only (or lack of in my case perhaps).
BTW I would recommend seeing Kansas live. I saw them 10 years ago and they rocked!! One of the best gigs I ever saw. They came off that stage sweating buckets!
Their best album is their live album which I think says something about the lack of cohesiveness in any of their studio albums.
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: February 16 2015 at 22:56
They're less prog than Funkadelic, or Sun Ra
------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 00:09
Absolutely `Leftoverture' deserves to be in the top 100, as well as pretty much the self titled debut, `Song for America' and `Point of No Return' (but not so much `Masques').
Although those album had more straight-forward moments, the proggiest stuff on them is really almost up their with anything off the early Genesis/Yes albums, and Kansas completely had their own style that sounded like no-one else, completely unique.
I tend to think that those who don't really consider them prog actually haven't properly listened to any of those above mentioned albums fully. Their first few albums are LOADED with prog greatness!
Oh, and those that write the band off due to `Carry On Wayward Son', that's seriously one of the greatest `proggy' pop singles that had commercial success ever!
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 02:04
iluvmarillion wrote:
richardh wrote:
There seems to be a lot 'taking it very personally' that Kansas are not more respected around here. That's a shame. For me they didn't record a masterpiece and that's not a problem at all and is the sole reason why I believe they do not get more recognition than they may deserve. However this silly obsession with the top 100 is getting annoying. I did suggest earlier in the thread we would be better off without it but there were no takers. A top ten would suffice although I guess there would then be more complaints that Gentle Giant or Rush or whoever are not in but really it just doesn't matter. Get a grip!
Kansas had many great songs and pieces of music and that is way more important. They made the definitive US symphonic prog track Song For America which is an absolute beauty. They can be justifiably proud of that and the fact the album it came from is not in the TOP 100 hit parade is entirely irrelevant. I also like a lot of the 'crossover' material they excelled at and again in general this kind of material does not pick up the 5 star ratings which is quite understandable.
I also don't believe in the anti-USA bias although perhaps that comment was meant as tongue in cheek. I hope it was. I love many albums by USA bands including the likes of Chicago, Mountain , Love , The Tubes and one of my favourite bands of recent times is Glass Hammer who I like more than Kansas . Sorry but that is a matter of taste only (or lack of in my case perhaps).
BTW I would recommend seeing Kansas live. I saw them 10 years ago and they rocked!! One of the best gigs I ever saw. They came off that stage sweating buckets!
Their best album is their live album which I think says something about the lack of cohesiveness in any of their studio albums.
Indeed and part of the reason for this is that Kansas struggled to find their own clear identity. For instance you have the folky Dust In The Wind alongside the ELP influenced The Spider. What are ( or who are) Kansas trying to be? It was all a bit trying to gate crash a party that was already over.
Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 02:28
The album Two For The Show is indeed one of the finest live albums ever. That would be in my all-time top 20, never mind top 100.
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 05:29
Does it matter?
Between thousands of different prog bands we're bound to leave some people's faves off the list.
I'm not really a Kansas fan myself. It's not like I have anything against them (certainly not because they're American), I just don't appreciate their music outside of the debut.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: Walton Street
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 08:29
despite having a few of their albums, I don't really know much Kansas other than the 2 big hits.
Listened to the whole of Leftoverture in the car yesterday and found it quite unremarkable.
It was like Yes-Lite, half the instruments, double the vocals.
I found the songs (other than Wayward Son) were structured a lot like Yes, especially the keyboards running around in little circles under the vocals ...
I didn't dislike it, I just didn't find anything that would stick for me personally.
------------- "I know one thing: that I know nothing"
- SpongeBob Socrates
Posted By: Cailyn
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 09:05
Seriously???
Prog? Not prog? Kansas is/was brilliant/great/not so bad/awful/American/blah blah blah.
These are all subjective opinions. There is no objective way to measure progginess and there is no objective way to measure which albums are great and which are not. The top 100 at best is a flawed consensus of the members who bothered to rate the albums there.
I like Kansas. I think they're proggy. Good for me. So I play Kansas albums and I go to their concerts and I waste no energy worrying about what the good people of PA think of Kansas.
------------- http://www.cailynmusic.com
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 09:54
Music is not competition.
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 10:56
Walton Street wrote:
despite having a few of their albums, I don't really know much Kansas other than the 2 big hits.
Listened to the whole of Leftoverture in the car yesterday and found it quite unremarkable.
It was like Yes-Lite, half the instruments, double the vocals.
Half the instruments?
Kansas played in those days with double guitar (Robbie and Kerry), double keyboards (Kerry and Steve), bass, drums and violin.
As a fact they used more instruments than Yes.
Yes, they had two vocalists and that was good, Steve had an amazing range on those days and Robby made awesome second vocals.
Songs like Cheyenne Antheme, Magnum Opus and Miracles Out of Nowhere are real masterpieces...They have no connection with Yes, they blended Symphonic (Genesis influenced), Hard Rock and a hint of Country.
If you listen with prejudices, you won't find what's great of them.
-------------
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 11:11
perhaps he meant half the instrumental skill... double the vocal talent
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 11:16
micky wrote:
perhaps he meant half the instrumental skill... double the vocal talent
LOL
Guess what
-------------
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:56
Cailyn wrote:
Seriously???
Prog? Not prog? Kansas is/was brilliant/great/not so bad/awful/American/blah blah blah.
These are all subjective opinions. There is no objective way to measure progginess and there is no objective way to measure which albums are great and which are not. The top 100 at best is a flawed consensus of the members who bothered to rate the albums there.
I like Kansas. I think they're proggy. Good for me. So I play Kansas albums and I go to their concerts and I waste no energy worrying about what the good people of PA think of Kansas.
Burn the heretic
Posted By: Cailyn
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:59
richardh wrote:
Cailyn wrote:
The top 100 at best is a flawed consensus of the members who bothered to rate the albums there.
...and I waste no energy worrying about what the good people of PA think of Kansas.
Burn the heretic
Let the auto-da-fé begin....
------------- http://www.cailynmusic.com
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:30
hah. being burned as a heretic is one of the highest honors one can receive here at PA's. I can vouch for that as I've felt the flames a few times myself.
When they really come after you, and its the admins holding the torches, at least you'll get a Sainthood out of it.
Today I'm known throughout the prog world as Saint Michael, patron saint of creative spamming and trolling.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:41
micky wrote:
Today I'm known throughout the prog world as Saint Michael, patron saint of creative spamming and trolling.
And Italian wedding bands.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:47
The Dark Elf wrote:
micky wrote:
Today I'm known throughout the prog world as Saint Michael, patron saint of creative spamming and trolling.
And Italian wedding bands.
among other things I suppose But I should have edited that, for I was wrong, in spite of everything I've done. Both famous and infamous... I'm still known to everyone outside this site as.. 'oh ..you are Raffaella's husband'
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 17:00
micky wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
micky wrote:
Today I'm known throughout the prog world as Saint Michael, patron saint of creative spamming and trolling.
And Italian wedding bands.
among other things I suppose But I should have edited that, for I was wrong, in spite of everything I've done. Both famous and infamous... I'm still known to everyone outside this site as.. 'oh ..you are Raffaella's husband'
It is the cross you have to bear.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 17:07
yeah I like it actually... it allows me to slip away unnoticed and drink mass quantities while Raff does her socializing
though sometimes that can lead to potentially bad situations..at Nearfest once I had sucked down a few good local beers after a set and walked into the lobby to see some guy making out with my wife.
I started going alpha-male and was ready to kick some ass but before I got to the happy couple they started speaking in french and Raff stopped me as my fist raised and I found out it was Patrick Forgas and he was just thanking her for her wonderful reviews. Ooops.
At least I did get a .. 'oh ...you are Raff's husband' out of him as well.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 17:09
Not anymore, unfortunately.... My reviews have dried up, and perhaps will never come back again. It was good while it lasted.
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 17:26
Raff wrote:
Not anymore, unfortunately.... My reviews have dried up, and perhaps will never come back again. It was good while it lasted.
Ummm...well...ahem....okay, that really put a damper on the humor.
On the bright side, I really enjoyed your informative and well-written 2014 musical review.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 17:29
Thank you! I am sorry if my remark was a bit depressing. I have had a bad day today.
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 17:37
Raff wrote:
Thank you! I am sorry if my remark was a bit depressing. I have had a bad day today.
You had a bad day! Someone has just accused me of being inane and childish for finding death growls inane and childish. I am beside myself in botheration! Flummoxed even!
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 17:39
The Dark Elf wrote:
Raff wrote:
Thank you! I am sorry if my remark was a bit depressing. I have had a bad day today.
You had a bad day! Someone has just accused me of being inane and childish for finding death growls inane and childish. I am beside myself in botheration! Flummoxed even!
Posted By: Walton Street
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 19:50
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Walton Street wrote:
despite having a few of their albums, I don't really know much Kansas other than the 2 big hits.
Listened to the whole of Leftoverture in the car yesterday and found it quite unremarkable.
It was like Yes-Lite, half the instruments, double the vocals.
Half the instruments?
Kansas played in those days with double guitar (Robbie and Kerry), double keyboards (Kerry and Steve), bass, drums and violin.
As a fact they used more instruments than Yes.
Yes, they had two vocalists and that was good, Steve had an amazing range on those days and Robby made awesome second vocals.
Songs like Cheyenne Antheme, Magnum Opus and Miracles Out of Nowhere are real masterpieces...They have no connection with Yes, they blended Symphonic (Genesis influenced), Hard Rock and a hint of Country.
If you listen with prejudices, you won't find what's great of them.
never once said i listened with prejudice - completely neutral ..
i wasn't there in the recording studio - to do an instrument count - it's just how just sounded to me.
I own the cd - i buy things hoping to like them ..
------------- "I know one thing: that I know nothing"
- SpongeBob Socrates
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 22:26
OK I'm giving Kansas another try.
First up is Carry On Wayward Son. I like the few twiddly seconds around 3.30, but otherwise it just makes me think "more cowbell". Reason To Be is better, apart from the vocal. Nice anvil at the start. Nice kookaburra at the end. Dust In The Wind has almost forty million views on Youtube, so it must be something special. Not really, no. I like the guitars. Now I shall try a whole album, just in case I chose badly. Two For The Show seems to be what Kansas fans recommend.
------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 01:58
Somewhere To Elsewhere is the one I would recommend but then as I suggested before I'm not a massive fan.
Too many of their seventies albums just sound a bit 'wooden' and lack dynamics which is another issue I have with them. Its strange because they are such a great live band.
Posted By: Walton Street
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 04:20
richardh wrote:
Somewhere To Elsewhere is the one I would recommend but then as I suggested before I'm not a massive fan.
Too many of their seventies albums just sound a bit 'wooden' and lack dynamics which is another issue I have with them. Its strange because they are such a great live band.
lacking dynamics is a very good way to put it.
------------- "I know one thing: that I know nothing"
- SpongeBob Socrates
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 11:11
Walton Street wrote:
richardh wrote:
.....Too many of their seventies albums just sound a bit 'wooden' and lack dynamics which is another issue I have with them. Its strange because they are such a great live band.
lacking dynamics is a very good way to put it.
"lacking dynamics is a very good way to put it."
What exactly does that mean....? An example would be nice.
btw...I am a fan of Kansas though I'm not sure myself if they deserve a spot in the top 100....as someone said much earlier in the thread there are only so many spots available.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: Walton Street
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 11:42
dr wu23 wrote:
Walton Street wrote:
richardh wrote:
.....Too many of their seventies albums just sound a bit 'wooden' and lack dynamics which is another issue I have with them. Its strange because they are such a great live band.
lacking dynamics is a very good way to put it.
"lacking dynamics is a very good way to put it."
What exactly does that mean....? An example would be nice.
btw...I am a fan of Kansas though I'm not sure myself if they deserve a spot in the top 100....as someone said much earlier in the thread there are only so many spots available.
I put it on Monday while driving and gave it a lot of concentration .. Wayward Son is punchy and solid but the rest of the album TO ME was weak and meandering - nothing stood out or grabbed me. I couldn't make out one song from the other. If others love the band more power to them. I'll probably give it another try at some point. I'll put on another of theirs (I have about 4 I think) because the goal in purchasing the albums was to enjoy them.
edit to add ... Wayward Son had an emotional impact - that was nowhere to be found again (FOR ME)
------------- "I know one thing: that I know nothing"
- SpongeBob Socrates
Posted By: gr8dane
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 12:27
The only top 100 there is worth a damn,is my own.
The others can be fun and interesting to look at.
You can find Song For America,Masque and Leftoverture on mine.
------------- Shake & bake.
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 12:51
Carry on My Wayward Son is among my favorite 70s classic rock songs. I can take or leave the rest of it.
As to "should be" or "should not be" in the Top 100, that's kind of like asking if 2 + 2 "should" equal four. As long as the mathematics are correct with respect to peoples' ratings, the album's placing on the list is nothing more than the sum total of people who submitted ratings to put it there. I always say, if you really disagree, then write a good review to support your opinion. It will be counted.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 12:59
Yeah I feel similarly whenever I see these kinds of threads..........and then I suddenly remember that neither Yeti or Tago Mago are listed in this fabulous top 100 and go absolutely MENTAL!!!! AAAAAAAAAARRRRGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LAVAAAA!! MAAAAD THINGS!!! CANNOT COMPUTE!!
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 13:05
^ David, you'd feel much better if you listened to Kansas' Masque...with a side of spam, of course.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...