Today's albums versus the classics: reviewer bias?
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=101421
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Topic: Today's albums versus the classics: reviewer bias?
Posted By: ProgSword
Subject: Today's albums versus the classics: reviewer bias?
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 13:54
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Do you think that albums released in retrospect are reviewed differently than albums released during PA's lifespan? I can't help but feel the overexposure of 70s albums in the top 100 might have a little to do with nostalgia and not just their quality. See Genesis as an example. I can't imagine an album like Nursery Cryme or The Lamb getting an overall of 4.42 and a 4.29 respectively in 2015. This can go another way for newer works. Take Haken for example. Had we reviewed Aquarius and Visions in retrospect, I think Aquarius would get knocked down to a 3.75 and Visions bumped up to a 4.2. Very similar albums, which I've noticed some classic reviewers have knocked albums that are too similar to each other (like ITCOTKC and ITWOP, both of which I think are fantastic albums, but the latter never carried the same legacy as the former) but since Aquarius and Visions came out while the site existed, you're only seeing those differences from a contemporary viewpoint. What do you think? Have you noticed any differences in how viewers look at classic albums versus contemporary ones? Makes me wonder how different the top album list would be if the internet and Progarchives existed in the late 60s.
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Replies:
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 13:58
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Reviewer bias? Yes. There are those that think that their favorites can do no wrong. Once you become familiar with these particular reviewers you can take them with a grain of salt.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: paragraph7
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:05
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Yep. I've noticed the same. TBH I gave my stars to the Genesis albums very early on in my prog listening, and now, years after, the only album I'd grant five stars would be Foxtrot. There is definetly bias towards the classics, but whether that matters is another thing. The most hilarious example is when one particular reviewer dismissed Opeth's Still Life only on the basis of death growls. It's precisely the same as the parents of those born in the late 40's and early 50's who dismissed bands such as Led Zeppelin etc because they were playing too loud and screaming. Opeth's Still Life is pretty much the defining moment of Progressive Death Metal, and although it's already pretty high up on the list, it should be even higher in my opinion. Same could be said about a plethora of other bands and albums. ------------- What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:27
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My feeling is that those pillars of progressive rock music (Yes, Genesis, Floyd etc) will never be toppled and then you have that sneaky bunch of bands that never had great commercial success such as VDGG , Gentle Giant and Banco but who are adored by many a serious prog fan. These bands have so much praise lavished on them which appears to be almost in direct inverse proportion to the lack of general interest in them when they were actually around. So any relatively new band has to clamber over all that just to start with. I suppose a question is there someone out there who gets biased slightly over the top praise for almost everything he does and could his name be Steven Wilson? |
Posted By: paragraph7
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:38
But he's able to count 500 million prog bands in his sleep, while tapping 9/8! ------------- What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence. |
richardh wrote:Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:45
I'm sorry, but I still think death growls are idiotic and definitely detract from the composition. My view hasn't changed from the first time I heard them till the last. Plain stupid and corny. Opeth is a much better band without them, as evidenced by their last two albums. Looks like they finally grew up. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:47
 ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: paragraph7
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:57
But they're really not Progessive Death Metal anymore without them, are they? What you are dismissing is a certain technique that's synonymous with the genre as a whole, not just Opeth in particular. I don't mind their newer albums (although I think they are paying way too much tribute to Mikael's idols rather than doing something of their own) but to say that they "detract from the composition" is like saying that the loudness of an amplified guitar detracts the sound when compared to an acoustic one. If we'd be objective here, we'd compare Opeth's death growls to other bands of the genre, and see that his growls have FAR more articulation and emotion than some other mediocre Death Metal band. ------------- What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:59
I know what you're saying, but this place would be extremely dull if people weren't allowed to have an opinion on an album simply because they hadn't been exposed to the style of music beforehand. Some times it can be refreshing to have an outsider looking in. Oh and why is it not valid not to like growls? I mean, people write off Yes, Can and Van Damme Generator because of Jon Anderson, Damo Suzuki and Peter Hammill. They're an acquired taste. Hell, I have a problem with certain types of accents applied to the English language. Danish, German and Swedish really rub me the wrong way. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:13
^ You don't like Frank Bornemann's accent? That's an acquired taste too  |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:16
Not a fan really no, but some times they can be extremely funny. I do like his voice though and would probably have loved it if he just sang in his native tongue. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:17
I am not dismissing Opeth but the whole silly death growl milieu. It's as silly to me as if all the death metal bands decided to start singing like Daffy Duck and then hear you say, "Oh no, Opeth doesn't sing like Daffy Duck, they sing like Donald Duck -- HUGE DIFFERENCE!" Ummm...no.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: paragraph7
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:20
While I agree with you, I always hope to read reviews with insight to the music outside personal preference, and when I actually notice that a reviewer is going all Genesis-fanboy on the stuff that he is reviewing, I lose interest. But you are right, it is valid not to like growls, Hammill, or Jon Anderson, and no-one is forcing me to read those biased reviews either. What I said, after all, was that I found the review "hilarious", which again, is only my opinion. ------------- What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:29
I know exactly what you mean. I always reference to the following review, but dammit I am such a sucker for it!  This is one of my favourite reviews of one of my favourite artists on PA (Tangerine Dream and the album in question is Zeit), though getting completely slammed. Greenback certainly doesn't care for improvised space drones:  What a shame! The music consists in 2-3 humming refrigerators at the same time, plus a portative fan that turns back and forth to make the anyway inexistent rhythm, and finally a coming cluster of threatening killer bees!There are tons of albums better than this one to describe the desolation once you go alone on Mars! The album is even not minimalist! Rating: 0.5 star ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:29
I wish he did that too. |
Posted By: paragraph7
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:33
Yeah, I had a feeling you were dismissing that particular technique and genre as a whole, that's basically what I was saying; it's the same as elderly people dismissing rock, classical enthusiasts dismissing anything that isn't classical and so on. That in a way connects with what the OP was posting about in the first place, that we are on a site where there is a bias towards a particular style of music (symphonic prog of the 70s) and my remark was meant to be just about that. I guess we need more death metal fanboys to come in and review some Genesis with remarks that Gabriel sounds like Mickey Mouse and give all albums 1 star Just kidding.I still accept your opinion though. ------------- What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:35
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I love Traced in Air by Cynic. Their last album to feature throaty vox and I miss it. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: paragraph7
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:38
Now I really have to listen that album. ------------- What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:41
He should've done something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCOYim7L_Ps" rel="nofollow - this instead  ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:56
^ Trippy  |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 15:59
Just like the rest of the album (and their second masterpiece Der Jesuspilz, which translates into the Jesus Mushroom) ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:00
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Belongs in the Psych Lounge! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:11
Humorously, I like much of my parent's music and my grandparent's music. I have jazz and blues albums dating back to the 1920s. I like classical, I like bluegrass, I even like some country (Johnny Cash, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band). I like blues rock, hard rock, psych rock, prog rock, acid rock, folk rock, punk rock, post-rock, etc. I just don't like death growls. I don't think that shows a bias against "Today's albums versus the classics" as the title of this thread implies. I voted for ten albums I thoroughly enjoyed for the 2014 Collaborator's List, and only one, Pink Floyd, has any tie whatsoever to the "classics": 1. IQ - The Road of Bones 2. Stever Rothery - The Ghosts of Pripyat 3. Agusa - Högtid 4. Dream the Electric Sheep - Heretics 5. Atomic Ape - Swarm6. Mostly Autumn - Dressed in Voices 7. Tim Bowness - Abandoned Dancehall Dreams 8. The Merlin Bird - Chapter and Verse 9. Pink Floyd - The Endless River 10. My Brother the Wind - Once There Was a Time When Time and Space Were One and the 2013 vote had only a few that reference directly back to classic prog, like Big Big Train and Steve Hackett: 1. Steven Wilson - The Raven that Refused to Sing 2. Big Big Train - English Electric, Part II 3. Kayo Dot - Hubardo 4. Riverside - Shrine of New Generation Slaves 5. Caligula's Horse - The Tide, The Thief & River's End 6. Moon Safari - Himlabacken, Vol. 1 7. Ayreon - The Theory of Everything 8. Anathema - Universal 9. Steve Hackett - Genesis Revisited at Hammersmith 10. Flower Kings - Desolation Rose So, how am I being "biased" against today's albums if I simply despise death growls? ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: The Sloth
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:21
| Death Metal growls not quite as popular as traditional melodic singing? Who'd a thunk that? People perceiving that style of singing as fairly anti-social is not the same as the parents who shook their heads at the kids buying Zeppelin records. Robert Plant sang notes, expressed more than one emotion, did it in a way that people could understand what he was saying. That kind of stuff. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:28
Let me put it this way, how progressive are death growls when every death metal band does it and has been doing it for years? That is simply sheep following other sheep (well, perhaps they are black sheep). Stop the inanity! And there were plenty of songs no one could understand what the hell Robert Plant was singing. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: paragraph7
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:35
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Firstly, I never meant to accuse you of being biased towards anything other than the growls that you from the beginning were refering to. Hell, find me someone who only listens to stuff from 69-78 and you'll have one biased and narrow minded listener (if such a listener even exists). But that's besides the point. The only thing that struck me weird is to dismiss a certain genre on basis on a single technique. For example, I don't like Rap music but I still can see value in it if it's done with emotion and vision. I won't listen to it, but I won't dismiss it either. The same goes for all music I listen to. If it weren't like this then our reviews would just be about who screams the loudest, filled with ad-hominem banter (similar to your remark of Opeth "finally growing up" when deciding to leave out the growls). Opeth's Still Life has been critiqued far more valuably; the mix in particular has been attacked on numerous occasions, and this is a critique I am far more fond of reading. ------------- What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:40
It's okay, you can dismiss rap music. I will help you. We'll have to agree to disagree on the rest. But I thought the "finally growing up" statement was far less ad hominem than when I referred to Daffy and Donald Duck. Death duck growls! ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: paragraph7
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:45
Your thought process here is what's inane. You are basically saying that because a trope has been used before it cannot be used ever again? Come on man. That's like saying that all the bands that have hammond organ solos after Deep Purple (or who ever was first) are at fault. ------------- What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence. |
Posted By: paragraph7
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:50
Fair enough. On a side note, I find it interesting that a friend of mine has dismissed most of progressive rock (especially stuff from King Crimson) as "not being music at all, just noise". And the irony? He finds growls perfectly normal. ------------- What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 16:57
Please, stop comparing death growls to Hammond organs. You'll hurt Mr. Hammond's feelings. You somehow think death growls are integral to death metal. I get that. My personal view is that it has been done ad nauseam, along with the silly Halloween aspects of the genre: banal gory lyrics, equally goofy band names (Cannibal Corpse, Disembowelment, Cock and Ball Torture, Dying Fetus -- ROFLMAO!), and album covers that belong in a George Romero film-fest. Opeth at least has some class and no more death growls. You obviously take it seriously. I laugh, shake my head and listen to something else. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: paragraph7
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 17:03
Please, stop comparing Opeth to Dying Fetus. You'll hurt Mikael's feelings. The reason I take old-Opeth seriously is because their themes actually are about love, tragic loss, and our withering life. You'll be hard pressed to find a concept album about the loss of a loved one like Still Life from Cannibal Corpse. And btw, the bands you listed do not take themselves seriously either, it's all a joke to them as well. So you are not as far high up in that regard as you thought. ------------- What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence. |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 17:27
This attitude shows you to be inane and childish. If you don't like the style, thats fine, I don't care as it's not going to be for everyone but going out of your to ridicule the exponents of said style is truly pathetic. As to the OP, yes there's a huge bias towards the 70's throughout the prog "community". There's been more than a few times that I've felt it to be rather stifling. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 17:46
I think you're a bit constipated all on your own and need no external influence to be stifled. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: TradeMark0
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 23:12
Jazz musicians did it first. Of course, there is nothing wrong with adopting an idea as long as you do something interesting with it.
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Posted By: TradeMark0
Date Posted: February 17 2015 at 23:39
| the death growl is probably the most monotonous form of singing.There is hardly any dynamic. It is just plain boring to listen to. |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 00:05
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All reviews are biased to one degree or another. The trick is whether reviewers can explain their perspectives coherently or not. Knowledge has value. Appreciation corresponds with taste. Both can be cultivated but that is not always the case; both have limits. Nobody creates out of a vacuum. Nobody listens without reference to the context of their understanding and experience. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 01:19
The great thing about that review is that you know exactly what the music sounds like from just a few well chosen words. Many of us (myself included) can learn from that! The biased opinion is not important as ALL opinion is biased anyway.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 01:30
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I don't know where to begin with the idiotic original post. Those albums got high rating because they were that good. You are just too infantile to appreciate that... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 01:37
| 'good' being entirely opinion based on what? Better musicianship? Better original writing? More innovation? I would say all of the above but then I do love a lot of modern prog because it has more clear objectives and focus and perhaps even more consistency. But we have to have a reference point and the famous albums give us that. In The Court Of The Crimson King is a for instance an album that gets 5 stars reviews all over the place because of its importance . But I wonder what the answer would be to this simple question ' When was the last time you listened to it?' . My answer would be 'I can't remember!'. |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 02:09
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First of all we should not confuse, one thing is bias classic vs new, which is what I think the OP was referring to. A different thing is bias of styles, i.e. Symphonic or Classic Prog vs Death Metal as the thread seemed to be turning at some point. I guess it's no surprise that the classics are revered, for those of us who were around at the time they have stood the test of over 30 years. We can not say that from any new album, we may like them a lot but only within 30 years we will be able to tell if we feel that they are classic masterpieces. For those of us old enough, it's simply not possible to compare them with equal footing. The young people who hear the classics now for the first time can of course compare them on equal footing to the new modern albums and tell which they find best, and if you do not find the classics as good as their ratings suggest, that's fine. And about styles, it's also no surprise that in a Prog Rock site there are many members who don't care much for Death Metal honestly.
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Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 02:51
If the reviewers grew up in the 70s they should like 70s albums more. Because you're more likely to connect with music when you're young. The overexposure of 70s albums means only one thing: There are way too many old people on the site! 
These albums have had 40 years to prove their worth, so it's natural that people will give them higher scores. I mean, what would you give higher praise to, something that has entertained you for 20 years, or something that entertained you for two weeks (assuming they came out a little more than two weeks ago  )?
70s reviewers would go "I think distorted guitars (that don't even sound like guitars), long ambient passages and spacy sound effects are idiotic and definitely detract from the composition. Meddle is a much better album without them. "
I'll suggest that late 60s ProgArchives chart looks like: 1. The Doors - The Doors (1967) 2. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin (1969) 3. The Jimi Hendrix Experience - Electric Ladyland (1968) And probably a lot of 50s Chuck Berry and 40s and 30s music, if the site had enough old people. ------------- 
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Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 03:15
Well, for albums released before 2007, enough years have passed to grant them the "stood the test of time" status. I can now say that I have listened to Deadwing, The Mantle etc. for 7+ years and for me that's really a lot longer than King Crimson, Pink Floyd or any one of the classic 70s bands. If it's an album released within the past five years, bias is undeniable, because they haven't been granted the "stood the test of time" status yet, and people will hesitate to give them good scores. -------------
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 03:23
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^It's not my experience that people hesitate with good ratings - I'd say the exact opposite. Whenever Haken, IQ, Huge Train and a lot of other new acts release an album, we get one 5 star review/rating after another. Oh and having known an album for 7 years isn't exactly the same as having lived with it for over 30 years Fact if the matter is that we're all biased. You seem to be biased towards metal whereas I tend to lean towards Krautrock and strangeness more. It's called taste. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 07:15
| Well, is it not the same for jazz or classical music? Sure there may be good music being made in all of these genres (not the right word for jazz/classical I know) but the time when they captured mainstream attention lies mostly in the past. And the albums/works that have attained classic status are the ones that are typically easily available for consumption. I have picked up Gentle Giant, Renaissance, Hatfield and the North from a large store in midtown Mumbai! Modern prog was/is much harder to obtain except perhaps for DT and PT (or bands not always regarded as prog by the mainstream, like Radiohead). In spite of being ignored lately by the media, classic prog still has significant reach and gets heard by more listeners. Anyhow on average, DT, PT, Opeth do get lots of positive reviews but expecting similar acceptance for albums by smaller bands may be wishful thinking. |
Posted By: paragraph7
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 07:39
Although I agree that we are always somewhat biased - and not only terms of genres, but also moods and situations in life that can affect our reviews - I still think it is possible to be open minded about music, rather than close oneself inside a box. For example, my favorite bands hail from prog, classic rock, modern rock, hard rock, heavy metal, power metal, progressive metal, black metal, melodic death metal, video game music and I also enjoy Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Mahler and Bach, while I also like to listen to most Jazz and some purely electronic music. When counting all the sub genres and sub-sub genres of those, I really am past the point of dismissing music solely on the basis bias towards one particular genre. The only thing that I feel comfortable of dismissing outright is music that is made only to satisfy a market, where it is clear that no artistic expression was involved whatsoever (for example a Pop Star having others write their music and then not even being able to sing it without automatic pitch alteration and tuning). ------------- What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 13:42
Good for you that you don't have any of these accents then Or wait...
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 09:47
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This is the hardest part of "reviewing" anything. I do not have any ideas about reviewing and will not use any format, and in fact, I declined to some work for PA when the review I wanted to do was not approved, since the album listed was actually two albums, that already had reviews. Why would the review of this compilation be any different? Because I heard it with my dick in my ear? All in all, when I review a film, or a work of music, it is on its own, and has nothing to do with anything else but itself. It might remind me of this or that but rarely will I mention that in music, since we like so much to help people with their adoration of the old material and think that today's is not as valuable ... as yesterdays! Well, heck to mergteroids ... we also think that Stravinsky and Beethoven was better than all this piddly rock music anyway ... so what's your point? Now we have an issue ... today's music is not worthy of attention, and I'm on record as saying that today's rock/jazz/bs and what not is the classical music of the times and some will stand up and some won't ... but we won't be able to EVER see that, or make a dent in that history! I just hope, that our appreciation of it all helps in the end, but it is not for you and I to say 50 years from now! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 09:59
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Bias is inherent in any endeavor, and especially when it comes to formulating an opinion about quality. One thing to keep in mind regarding the '60s and '70s bands is that they are foundational to the genre. Hence, regardless of "fairness" to newer musicians, it is natural for reviewers to use the foundational work in any given genre or subgenre as a frame of reference. For example, it is just as natural to evaluate Viennese classical using Haydn and Mozart as frames of reference as it is to evaluate bop in light of the contributions of Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, etc. And the same is true for fusion, in which Miles Davis and his many collaborators (Corea, McLaughlin, Zawinul, etc.) provide an enduring foundational reference. If one considers progressive rock as but one school of music akin to the many that came before and are sure to follow, then the inherent bias toward foundational works becomes understandable. Giving the inventors and popularizers of any musical genre or subgenre a few bonus points doesn't give me any heartburn.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 10:47
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Hi,
^^^^^^^^ Thanks ... no heartburn for me, either.
I do think that a lot of younger folks, have an issue listening to different things, and sometimes, even classical music is an issue for them, and when you do that, you have a tendency to lose the over all view of music and its spread of the years and even centuries.
That, has nothing to do with me liking Albinoni over Vivaldi, or Bach over Handell! Which is just about what folks do here on the board in so many threads ... but that's another story. And it gets boring suggesting other listens, and you know that person will never go listen to that now, on purpose ... like chocolate is bad for you! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: DreamTechPlus
Date Posted: February 28 2015 at 04:22
| Nostalgia is the bane of objectivity. That and anybody (anybody, even you) can be swayed by a large enough majority, even if only subconsciously. I feel like critics aren't taken to task enough for this kind of thing, either. So we get an echo chamber that just gets louder and louder. It could be saying utterly baffling things (like "Queen is good", or something) but no one wants to go up against that noise. |
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: March 02 2015 at 03:31
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Bias but in a good way |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 02 2015 at 05:02
erm...it's perfectly OK for you to discriminate against music you don't think is very good ------------- 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 02 2015 at 13:48
I'm not a big fan of death growls, but it's not accurate to suggest such singers are not singing in a way that people understand. In the case of Opeth and Mr Akerfeldt (sp) he sings more than one style and Opeth cover a variety of emotions, and the lyrics are a big part of the package. Their fans do understand what he's singing about. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: freyacat
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 23:23
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There is no shame in admitting that the artists who work in the early, founding days of an artistic movement like progressive rock, (or just plain rock music for that matter) have the advantage of creating when it's all exciting and new and unknown. There is a freshness to this phase of artistic evolution that can't be repeated. Once you have had the Beatles, no one can revisit that musical territory again without reminding everyone of the Beatles, and inviting unfavorable comparison. If you want to make Progressive Rock today, you must understand how much of the low-hanging fruit has been picked by Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, and ELP. You have to do something less obvious, less intuitive. It is no surprise that people will always think of the earlier works as better. There is no shame in following in such great footsteps. But one must have realistic expectations for how one's work will be received. ------------- sad creature nailed upon the coloured door of time |
Posted By: FallingEdge1
Date Posted: March 22 2015 at 21:30
| I really believe this depends on the age of the reviewer. It seems to me that there is a certain time in everyone's life when they are more heavily influenced by music than others (for most it's the teenage years). I still view Close to the Edge as a masterpiece, perhaps the greatest album of all time, but I'm sure there are others that have been released since that for whatever reason just didn't strike me the same way. Maybe we get busier as we get older and don't have the same time to really absorb the music? I don't know, but I don't think it's coincidence that nothing released in the last 20 years or so sounds as good to me as the 70's prog. I'm sure it has something to do with the time in my life that I discovered it. |
Posted By: yuribujuri
Date Posted: March 26 2015 at 01:33
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Why Kubrick's 2001 - A Space Odissey is better rated than Nolan's Interstellar? For me the answer is easy and obvious, and is not a question of conspiracy or bias... just look those films and, honestly, compare them. Yesterday's albums are not better because they are classic - they are classics because they are better... IMHO. And personally I still listen it so much hours... A hug |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 26 2015 at 02:52
ProgSword. hello It's difficult to answer your question, little known bands might be perceived as less considering that they have not proven themselves in terms of having an historical background however i.e. Pink Floyd to be honest their latest album although everyone had to own it and is so happy they released another album, they too have been reviewed with the most critical eye/ears simply because whatever they have released prior to this has always been above and beyond standard, also some believe without Waters it has a weakness. Considering the above, for any band including indie label bands, PA is the best site to be on, the reviewers on PA here have an identity of their own and are not dictated by monetary gain nor pressured by the music industry giants., unlike the Classic Prog Presents Prog and Rolling Stone Magazine etc. in other words "they do and say what they blimmin' want here.  |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 26 2015 at 10:46
Newer bands will seldom attain the same level of recognition as the progenitors. This is particularly true in the realm of progressive electronic music, where Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Jean-Michel Jarre, Vangelis, Isao Tomita and Wendy Carlos (and I'll even add Synergy and Kraftwerk) will forever reign supreme. Some relatively newer acts, like Radio Massacre International, do well for themselves but will still never be regarded in the same way as the pioneers. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 09:03
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I speak the same language and state it all the time. But I'm a "visual" person and listener, and I have not met many other folks that seem to do the same thing. And I find it weird that someone can only "see" notes and chords, and have no emotional attachment otherwise to the music itself. A lot of today's music, and there is an incredible amount of excellent material out there, is more geared towards the "song" and a "format", whereas in those days, it was more about the disintegration of the "format", and 2001 is a great example ... where the parts makes one wonder how they match and in essence, they can be shifted around and the film is still ... interesting and thought provoking. My main thought, is that a lot of the material these days, is depending on LYRICS to tell you what it is about, and this is a bit of a falacy, besides having to do this in "order" so that the lyrics make sense ... and the story/event becomes clearer. I find this strange, as I like to make my own idea and view about the story ... instead of someone else's. Reminds me of Godard ...saying that he did not want to make a film about politics ... or a political film ... he just wanted a film ... and he opens up a building (no front) and lets it go ... and in the end of the day ... it's like nothing happened, and you sit there and wonder ... what was this all about? I have not heard, other than a recent Djam karet album, anything that does this for me at all. But then, I am not a fan of the song format at all! And depending on lyrics, is sometimes worse, but they do not (necessarily) need to be ignored or sidestepped. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |