Is RPI sung in English - really RPI?
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Topic: Is RPI sung in English - really RPI?
Posted By: Komandant Shamal
Subject: Is RPI sung in English - really RPI?
Date Posted: June 29 2015 at 22:36
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i dont think so. As a big fan of RPI as well [BTW Italia and ex-Yugoslavia were neighbouring and pretty friendly countries especially after Osimo agreements in 1975], i could accept that caprice of some of RPI bands who were recorded some songs or even the whole album in English, its OK although then its an inelegant RPI, but a marriage of whole catalogue with English language actually disqualified any Italian band for that sublime RPI categorie - then its just another symphonic prog, eclectic prog, etc., what could be [and very often it is] great stuff but then its not RPI at all IMHO. Whats your opinion?
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Replies:
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 05:48
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Difficult to say, with the classic bands they would inarguably be still part of RPI, which I gather was as much a regional movement as a full fledged music style, though I don't think there were any who sang solely in English though. With modern bands it's much harder to say, but I'd be inclined to agree with you but I'd hope there was more to it than that, the classic Itaian bands had something about there sound beyond singiong in their native language that separated them from the English, German, French etc groups. I'm not at all well versed on modern symphonic bands, too many of those that I have sampled have come across as being a little bit sterile, but if this distinction still hilds true then I'd say it was more important than the language the singer used. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 05:57
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There are some (by that, I mean a few) examples of English vocal RPI bands that still manage to convincingly come across as the `real deal', but you're right, singing in Enlgish does rob the music of a very vital factor of the identity of RPI. RPI is not simply `prog rock sung in Italian'....done properly, the Italian vocals are a specific theatrical, passionate characteristic itself of the music. Given the current industry, modern RPI bands would be very unwise to attempt to use English as a way to try and break big into international markets - it's simply NOT going to happen. Apart from that, often when they sing in English, the results are dreadful - pained, forced delivery of a language they're not totally comfortable with. Besides...I think the `faithful' RPI followers consider it a bit insulting when those bands sing in English. It instantly lessens the band in their eyes... |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 06:08
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^Very nicely put my friend. I was going to say something similar:) The Italian ingredient - that is the essence of the RPI sound - doesn't necessarily have to come from the vocals, although I vastly prefer that. The music surrounding the vocals is often what takes you directly into the heartland of pasta. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 06:21
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Very few of the original RPI bands sang in English. At that time, foreign language proficiency wasn't exactly common in Italy. The only example I can think of at the moment are Cherry Five, who were basically Goblin under a different name. Musically, their debut album is great, but the vocals (in heavily accented English) are definitely the weakest point. Funnily enough, their new album - released after 39 years - is all in Italian, and inspired by the quintessential Italian literary work, Dante's Divine Comedy. In some ways, this is a recognition of the importance of the Italian language for the whole RPI scene. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 06:29
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Acqua Fragile and Ibis also spring to mind, but yeah the RPI groups taking the English route are far and between. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 06:32
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Well, if we look at Premiata Forneria Marconi as a 'case study', it's also interesting. They started out as a purely Italian singing band. Then there were Italian sung albums and parallel to it English sung albums. I didn't like the Italian songs being sung in English. Listened to The World Became The World once: never again. But... they were also doing songs in English alone, with no Italian counterparts. "Is My Face On Straight" from L'Isola Di Niente, and then they turned full English before turning Italian again. For me: I really like Chocolate Kings. Maybe not their best album, but I still like it a lot. It is sung in English, but for me it is still RPI. But maybe if they went full English from the beginning on, I wouldn't be really be considering it RPI. So the funny thing is: the context does make a difference. For me at least.
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 06:33
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OK, controversial ponderings time! Consider, if you will, the English-language versions of albums like Le Orme's `Felona', Maxophone, parts of some Osanna albums, the New Trolls `Concerto Grosso' etc, and the first several PFM albums (up unto, say, `Jet Lag')... I have no doubt that, especially in the case of the PFM albums, those English versions were some of the first Italian prog albums that many worldwide listeners ever heard... Should they be given credit for being the introduction many people had to some of these bands? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 06:37
Indeed, Acqua Fragile were able to pull it off because Lanzetti was familiar with English. New Trolls tried the English-language route with Searching for a Land, which was a flop (though I bought it at the time  ), and led to the band splitting up. |
Guldbamsen wrote:Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 06:39
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Oh yes the mighty Trolls!! I completely forgot about that one. Not a fan though. I prefer the offshoot that made Tempi Dispari. Great space fusion or something to that effect. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 07:56
I agree with Marcel, after knowing the Italian versions it's impossible for me to like the English ones, and I also like Chocolate Kings. If there are two versions I always pick the Italian one and if there's only in English and the instrumental is great I can easily tolerate the vocals, although it diminishes the music IMO. I'm thinking of Cherry Five and Psycho Praxis, in this case. It's great that the new Cherry Five album is in Italian though 
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Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 08:22
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I was only able to find the English Banco album (other than listening on streaming sites) and honestly I still love it! For me, even things sung in English seem to only sound like syllables to me anyway. That one PFM album is not that great imo, and generally most of the RPI i like is sung in Italian but I feel that the musical and melodic characteristics is what makes RPI so great. ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 08:43
Out english !  |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 09:05
^ I hope miss Italy kicked the right butt.  Don't tell me that English looks like Berlusconi
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Posted By: Isa
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 16:41
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I wouldn't say so. If the style of the music is still RPI, I fail to see how the language of the album would disqualify the album from the style, because I don't think language is quintessential to the definition of a music style. Even if you lapped English lyrics to Mariachi, the music is still Mexican music. I feel the same way with RPI. ------------- The human heart instrinsically longs for that which is true, good, and beautiful. This is why timeless music is never without these qualities. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 17:24
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Yes. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: ginodi
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 17:45
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RPI is my favorite genre, and as Raff said, Cherry Five is the one I can name the quickest as being sung in English (quite accented). There are others, but I prefer them to sing in Italian because I can understand it, and something just doesn't sound right any other way--perhaps a lot gets lost in translation. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 21:42
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For me personally... Italian vox are requisite for my RPI shelf. There are several key sound components I associate with good RPI but the vocals would be the single most important one of those to me. Warm flowing phrases and boisterous operatic voice compared to too-oft poorly utilized English? It's just a non-starter. I have some Italian prog with vocals that are just cringeworthy because of the English. And it's not just the often commented upon accents that are the biggest problem, but the understanding of words and phrases, the timing and pronunciations, the flow. I'm honestly not trying to trash in a mean way those singers who choose to use English because they think it will appeal to greater numbers.....but I'm also just not interested in hearing it anymore. Not when there is so much rich RPI with very high quality Italian language vocals to be had, both old and new. You could spend a lifetime trying to hear it all. Once you fall in love with the language it becomes another fine instrument in the band and quite essential even for those of us who are non-Italian speakers. I encourage people new to Italian prog to get past their difficulty with the language (assuming they find it hard to appreciate initially) and stick with it. It will eventually click and I guarantee it will reward you down the road. Sometimes it takes time to appreciate the best of anything. I likewise encourage Italian bands to reject English and use your first language, your mastery of it will make your album more appealing in the long haul. ------------- |
Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 22:41
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I agree with what's being said here about RPI sounding better with Italian vocals and that is also my preference. To me, the key word is sound because I do not understand Italian. It was mentioned that the Italian language can be very passionate and that's true. It can also be very intense when the song needs it to be. But that passion and intensity isn't in the words, it's in the sound that the vocalist creates. The Italian language brings those emotions to a song better than most other languages do. Maybe the words are about emotions but if you don't understand the language then the sound is all you have to go by. That wasn't really the original question though. Is RPI in English really RPI? What about a prog fan that doesn't speak Italian or English? I'm not sure the original question can be answered that easily. As in most discussions like this, it boils down to individual taste and preference.
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 23:53
| Let's imagine that an English Symphonic rock band, old or new doesn't metter, are recording their songs in Italian language. That assumed English Symphonic rock band are gonna be tagged as RPI. Or maybe not? |
Posted By: terramystic
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 01:00
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For me RPI was a strange new genre classification in the first place. RPI or Italian (symphonic) prog is really strong/massive and has some unique characteristics but I wouldn't consider it a special genre so much different from other symphonic prog. To answer the first question: I really like emotional singing in Italian and prefere it over English versions because it also adds a different musical quality. I searched PA for a band from Italy still labeled symphonic and I found a band called Moongarden. In the description it's written: It is a symphonic band that happens to be Italian so should not be considered in the ranks of RPI. The influences stem more from Camel, Genesis and Pink Floyd than PFM or Banco. Don't all symphonic bands have roots/infuence in English symph? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 02:21
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 02:36
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Yep, I've only got the latest Moongarden album, and they sure don't recall any kind of either RPI or Symphonic to my ears. Not a big fan of that album at all... But back to topic!! (where's that emoticon gone for `Back to Topic'?!) |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 02:50
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I think that RPI is about the origin of the music in the first place; next comes the language. However, I prefer RPI sung in Italian above English when an album is available in both languages. I would not like to hear Le Porte del Domani in English. Italian fits the music well enough, ------------- 
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Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 07:55
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Been into RPI for only about 3 years and loved it immediately with the Italian vocals. I do not understand the language at all and to me the vocals are another instrument and it frees my listening up to focus on the music and not a verbal message. I think I only have a couple of "English" RPI titles and did not care for them, although I like the Cherry Five album, but is a one off and maybe more of rock in general in my book... ------------- 
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Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 08:21
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Referring to the original question, if Maxophone with Italian lyrics is RPI, what is Maxophone with English lyrics? (the obvious answer..."not nearly as good as the original.") |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 12:14
Curiously no one pointed that the RPI uniqueness is not only related to the italian language vocals but also to the sounds reproduced by the other instruments - synthesizers etc. , in such a creative way, and even exotic sometimes, up to the point that the composer can't remember anymore which instrument setting he used some years before on a specific piece . Besides, RPI finds inspiration also from Folk music other than the brittish folk, and I 've been observing that at least 70's RPI drew generally even more Classical inspiration than the brittish prog rock bands. Thus, I reckon that the RPI's unique characteristics go much farther than the aspect of mostly being sung in italian language, a language that I admire and enjoy even more than my own mother language (portuguese.) -------------  "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 12:20
I totally agree with this point  , and add that sometimes their poetry is very strong and passionate too. More than once my curiosity is stronger than my 'laziness' to look up in my italian dictionary the words I don't remember or don't know at all.------------- "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: paolo.beenees
Date Posted: August 09 2015 at 17:11
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Would you expect each single Krautrock band to sing in German? Any Italian band playing progressive rock (especially in the 1970s) is RPI to me. I'd never let Sensations' Fix out of the list because they sing in English (just to make an example) ------------- 
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: August 09 2015 at 19:33
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For me, RPI bands that sing in English don't rub me the wrong way, in fact, in a couple of cases-the Libra debut album "Musica e Parole", and RDM's "Contaminazione"-sound so great in their English lyric versions of those albums, I find myself liking the English version better. As to whether it still qualifies as RPI, sure, as the inimitable instrumental atmosphere that Italian prog bands create is still there.
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Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: August 09 2015 at 21:04
| ERIS PLUVIA sing in English and is classed in RPI I believe, although prog folk might be a better spot for them. "Rings of Earthly Light" is one of my favorite albums of all time. But I am glad most of the others sing in Italian. |
Posted By: symphonicman
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 18:31
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I wonder if a band that is not from Italy, but from a country that speaks Italian like Switzerland makes an album with Italian lyrics. Is that Rock Progressivo Italiano? ------------- Master James of St. George. Of the fields and the sky. He used to build castles of stone, steel, and blood. But lines get broken down. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 19:11
nah.. it was never intended nor implemented as a blanket designation for all Italian (speaking) bands..Italian bands can be found across nearly (all?) the other sub-genres here. Much like the whole Krautrock thing man.. it was not a blanket designation for all German bands either. Nor was it a statement of a particular style... as RPI was not either. It is one of those.. you know it fits when you smell it.. when you feel it. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: symphonicman
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 19:44
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I understand what you mean. I was just thinking. What if there is a band that has the Italian sound and language that is not from Italy. There's Krautrock bands that isn't from Germany. There's Zeuhl bands that isn't from France. There's no Rock Progressivo Italiano bands that isn't from Italy though. ------------- Master James of St. George. Of the fields and the sky. He used to build castles of stone, steel, and blood. But lines get broken down. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 19:55
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none that I know of... we did heavily discuss many South American bands that are heavily ..heavily Italian influenced. Hell many are of Italian descent.. they could have been added/moved there.. but for many reasons we decided against pushing for expanding the reach of RPI. It was hard enough of a fight to first get it, and get the Italian bands moved into it that weren't already in ISP ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 20:27
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Posted By: symphonicman
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 20:31
It wouldn't be Italian anymore then. It would be Italian, South American and throw in Cuba there as well just to irritate The United States. They have what is it? One prog band and that should be enough to irritate The United States. ------------- Master James of St. George. Of the fields and the sky. He used to build castles of stone, steel, and blood. But lines get broken down. |
Posted By: Komandant Shamal
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 23:51
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 00:15
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Anekdoten must be R.P.S. then (Rock Progressiv Svenska) ??
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Posted By: Todd
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 01:58
Rumple Stiltze Comune is the closest case that I know of. We would have accepted them as RPI, but the influence was more clearly English. http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=6128 ------------- "I have seen the broken sky turn blue." http://gnosis2000.net/ratertodd.shtml" rel="nofollow - My Gnosis Ratings |
Posted By: Komandant Shamal
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 02:22
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 02:29
------------- 
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Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 02:59
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^ Except that kraut in this context refers to Germans, not the cabbage, so in a sense it does. The term Krautrock (kraut coming from the derrogatory slang the Allied forces used to refer to German millitary units in WWII, deriving from the popular German dish sauerkraut, of course) was coined by the English to refer to rock from Germany in the late 60's and the 70's. Later the artist connected with the term adopted it as their own, and we have Krautrock bands on this site not from Germany, and non-German speaking countries even, but that doesn't change where and what the expression originally came from. -------------  
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 04:09
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^Of course I know that. Still far from the same. -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 06:11
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Pah... Johnny-come-latelies. My first introduction to Italian Progressive Rock was back in 1973/74, the lyrics were sung in English and I 'king loved them all (Felona and Sorona, Photos of Ghosts and The World Became The World). I couldn't give a flying fig whether they were heavily accented or sung in Klingon - the music was outstanding and that is all that mattered to me. Later, hearing the original versions of these albums only made the experience better, I still have great affection for those "UK" versions. Nor do I care a great deal what you care to call it now, Rock Progressivo Italiano or Italian Symphonic Rock or just Progressive Rock - the soubriquet does not change the music. ------------- What? |
Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 09:52
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Posted By: andrea
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 10:50
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By the way, RPI from Japan... ------------- http://italianprogmap.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - ITALIAN PROG MAP - A journey through the Italian Progressive Rock |
Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 11:22
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^ Or perhaps Germany? -------------
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Posted By: andrea
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 11:58
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I don't think so. Anyway, they are not italian, they sing in a kind of "Italian grammelot" and their accent reminds me of this guy... ------------- http://italianprogmap.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - ITALIAN PROG MAP - A journey through the Italian Progressive Rock |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 16:23
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I'm certainly no expert on RPI (and it's not one of my favorite styles...which is basically symph or eclectic anyway..) but as several have mentioned or alluded to here , I'm not sure why there even needs to be a genre for that. There is no French, Swedish, etc category for other foreign 'sounding' prog bands. I'm not even sure why we have a 'Krautrock' sub genre....by that reasoning there should be a 'Britrock' sub genre for quintessentially British sounding prog....etc. Why aren't the basic genres enough...symph, eclectic, proto, prog related, fusion...etc? I have heard all the reasons before but if anyone wants to try and convince me of the rationale for these categories ....have at it. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 16:30
If you believe the subgenre is not legit, and nothing anyone will say will change your mind, why do you even bother to ask? We did spend a lot of time and effort in writing down a very comprehensive definition of RPI - drawing down on my first-hand experience as someone who was there (in Italy, I mean) at the time the subgenre developed. I now realize that we probably shouldn't have bothered. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 16:57
As you can see I have been here about 5 years with a number of posts and been listening to prog from the beginning of what was considered prog.......and I never said the 'genre' wasn't 'legit' (your word btw..)...whatever that means, and did say 'have at it'. My question is why is it necessary when there aren't any for the other countries....Krautrock being the exception to the rule apparently. I have , of course, read the RPI 'explanation' but it seems to be more a rationalization that's about those who like the genre for their own reasons than why it's necessary since RPI is primarily symphonic prog . ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 16:59
I hear you, Raff...it gets old. ------------- |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 17:07
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I did reread the actual RPI page (been quite a while since I first read it..) and the multi paragraph explanation of the RPI origins and the reasons for why a sub genre was created. I understand better now why some believe it deserves it's own niche and sub genre. I can't say I agree fully with all of the arguments, but I do understand why it has been accepted as a prog area all it's own. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 17:13
 There are many more things you can say more eloquently than I - this is one of them
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 17:31
First of all, thanks for re-reading the definition and finding something to appreciate . Before I bow out of the discussion for good, I'd just like to comment on the bolded part of your quote. That kind of reasoning - i.e. that people want to push their own agenda, regardless of evidence - was behind some of the nastiest confrontations in the Collab Zone, with personal insults flung left, right and centre. Personally, though I am Italian born and bred, I cannot even say I am a fan of RPI as many people are here. However, without the development of a vibrant prog scene in the early Seventies (when I was in my pre-teen years), I would probably not have got into prog as I did. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 19:01
Very much my opinion. It's a musical scene, more analogous to Canterbury or Kraut Rock or RIO than, say, Symphonic. There's a lot of nonsense spoken on the musical reasons the genre should be set apart from other albums that kind of falls apart if you start applying it systematically. Similarly with the vox - theatrical vocals can be hyped up but then there were plenty of British bands who'd been doing that and proved very influential in Italy and who got more theatrical after Italian tours... much the same with pastoral harmonised vocals. I've not yet really found any Italian prog rock in English that compares favourably to the English language German prog, in addition to even admirable translation attempts being turned off course by very musically different languages or often horrendously misplaced emphasis. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 20:31
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everyone did a great job putting that definition together. It was a real team effort. However the thing to recognize.. and likely the main selling point to M@X who had to authorize this... what is the PRIMARY mission of this site.. other than cataloging.. it is to faciliate discovery of all these wonderful bands and albums we have added. Regardless of whether RPI is or is not 'valid' in people's opinions.. what it did was place groups in a logical section where people who want to discover the vast wealth of the Italian prog scene can find these groups. As I told M@X.. the person who gets into Italian prog via PFM doesn't give two sh*ts about whether BANCO is symphonic.. Osanna Heavy Prog.. Area is Avant Fusion.. they naturally flow together... it is like the way groups are classifed in the tradtional sub-genres.. are Yes symphonic.. are Genesis syphonic. .who knows. Those are very often personal opinions on the music.. what they are though.. are naturally grouped togehter.. even though they sound vastly different. They are natural being grouped together. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: August 17 2015 at 06:46
 Exactly that. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 17 2015 at 17:52
...unless you actually read what Micky wrote, then exactly not that. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: August 17 2015 at 18:42
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I think it is RPI (Rock Progressivo Inglese) ------------- "Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl." |
Posted By: symphonicman
Date Posted: August 17 2015 at 23:29
So if Rumple Stiltzken Comune would have had Italian lyrics, would they have been more difficult to place? ------------- Master James of St. George. Of the fields and the sky. He used to build castles of stone, steel, and blood. But lines get broken down. |
Posted By: Todd
Date Posted: August 18 2015 at 00:43
No, if their music had more in common stylistically with Italian prog as opposed to English prog, they would have been more difficult to place, regardless of language. If the language were Italian also, they would have been RPI, in my book. For me, the music comes first. The language is definitely important--and I vastly prefer prog in its native language--but the music comes first. ------------- "I have seen the broken sky turn blue." http://gnosis2000.net/ratertodd.shtml" rel="nofollow - My Gnosis Ratings |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: August 18 2015 at 00:57
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Posted By: symphonicman
Date Posted: August 18 2015 at 05:26
Thank you for a very good explanation. It's easy to think that the difference between Rock Progressivo Italiano and other Prog is just the language, even though it isn't. If I have understood everything correctly? ------------- Master James of St. George. Of the fields and the sky. He used to build castles of stone, steel, and blood. But lines get broken down. |