Prog Polls - Are you a lyricist?

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Are you a lyricist?

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Topic: Are you a lyricist?

Posted By: HackettFan
Subject: Are you a lyricist?
Date Posted: August 28 2015 at 19:57

So, Prog fans reputedly lean toward a preference for instrumental music and, when appreciating vocals, tend to be more concerned about the quality of the voice as an instrument than the quality and content of those lyrics. I resemble that observation myself. Many PA members, I know, play an instrument. I do not know of any who have had or still have an active history writing lyrics. I want to see now how that intersects with singing, playing an instrument and not playing an instrument. So, let us know how you place yourself.

I play an instrument, but I've only written one lyric:

I found myself gazing at a hippopotamus
He was a whole lot larger than a lot of us
But he seemed rather tame
So I asked him his name
He preferred to remain anonymous

Suffice it to say I selected poll choice 4, 'No, I do play an instrument, but I don't write lyrics'.

Replies:

Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: August 28 2015 at 20:21

Well, I'm a poet originally. I play a bit on stringed things and can write lyrics, though I find it a bit difficult to get the ideas across as well as with just the words.

Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: August 28 2015 at 20:46

I'm not very good with words, my voice is awful, and I don't possess any musical abilities.

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"Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl."

Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 28 2015 at 21:37

I don't play instruments nor write lyrics. However, about your statement of prog fans being less interested in the quality of the lyrics, I'm not really sure. I mean, I don't think there's less interest for prog fans in lyrics than on the average pop/rock fan. Perhaps Metal fans are particularly interested in lyrics, but not necessarily because of their quality. This idea has come up several times also about prog having poor or ridiculous lyrics, and about that I don't agree either. Prog bands usually sing about many different things, while other genres only focus on love, broken hearts, or having fun, and that means that prog bands are at least interested in other aspects of life. And if a prog band came out with your usual love lyrics (I mean, for a whole album, not just a song), then I bet the proggers would complain and ridicule it, so I don't think prog fans are unconcerned about the lyrics either... it's just that proggers give more importance to the music and it's execution than other genre's fans. Plus, there's another point to consider. Prog is the genre of exellence to find concept albums, and in general prog fans apreciate them, and for a concept album you certainly need to take good care of the lyrics you are writing.

As for the quality of vocalists... actually I believe there are some bands with rather poor vocalists... perhaps a bit more than in other genres, actually, but sometimes the quality of the music allows us to enjoy the band despite a not so strong singer... there are some awsome singers in prog too, of course... though we don't always agree on which singers are great and which ones are weak.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: August 28 2015 at 22:18

Dellinger wrote:

I don't play instruments nor write lyrics. However, about your statement of prog fans being less interested in the quality of the lyrics, I'm not really sure. I mean, I don't think there's less interest for prog fans in lyrics than on the average pop/rock fan. Perhaps Metal fans are particularly interested in lyrics, but not necessarily because of their quality. This idea has come up several times also about prog having poor or ridiculous lyrics, and about that I don't agree either. Prog bands usually sing about many different things, while other genres only focus on love, broken hearts, or having fun, and that means that prog bands are at least interested in other aspects of life. And if a prog band came out with your usual love lyrics (I mean, for a whole album, not just a song), then I bet the proggers would complain and ridicule it, so I don't think prog fans are unconcerned about the lyrics either... it's just that proggers give more importance to the music and it's execution than other genre's fans. Plus, there's another point to consider. Prog is the genre of exellence to find concept albums, and in general prog fans apreciate them, and for a concept album you certainly need to take good care of the lyrics you are writing.

As for the quality of vocalists... actually I believe there are some bands with rather poor vocalists... perhaps a bit more than in other genres, actually, but sometimes the quality of the music allows us to enjoy the band despite a not so strong singer... there are some awsome singers in prog too, of course... though we don't always agree on which singers are great and which ones are weak.

Well said. I don't blame you for questioning the opening observation. I don't know if there's any data for it from previous polls. We are a complicated bunch, though, aren't we? This poll bears on the question of Prog fans' relationship with lyrics from a different angle; you certainly don't have to be a lyricist to appreciate lyrics, but It will be interesting and relevant to see how many PA people focused their talents in that direction. I hope this poll gets a lot of responses because I'd really like to see how things break down.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: August 28 2015 at 22:39

TGM: Orb wrote:

Well, I'm a poet originally. I play a bit on stringed things and can write lyrics, though I find it a bit difficult to get the ideas across as well as with just the words.

That's fabulous, man. And yeah, that's a good point too; expressing one's self through poetry isn't automatically the same as expressing one's self lyrically. That is to say, making the words fit into music.

Imperial Zeppelin wrote:

I'm not very good with words, my voice is awful, and I don't possess any musical abilities.

Indeed. My voice is awful too. That's why I wanted to see also how many lyricists would call themselves vocalists. It seems like it might be a pretty big factor.

Posted By: condor
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 06:18

What's the difference between a lyricist and a poet?

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 07:29

condor wrote:

What's the difference between a lyricist and a poet?

Erm, the glib answer would be "music", so a lyriscist would have some understanding of music and song structure that is not necessary in a poet. Lyrics are written to be sung whereas poems are written to be spoken or read, this distinction puts constraints on how a lyricist composes the words, the scan of those words and their rhythm. While not a general rule, lyrics tend to have a rhyming pattern that is either predictable or can be anticipated that is not necessary in poetry. Poems can (and are) put to music but the more successful of those are often more lyrical in form. While poems and lyrics have verses, songs have a chorus whereas a poem will have refrains (though again, this is not a general rule).

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What?

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 07:33

Back to the topic: I have written some lyrics for an (as yet unreleased) album of my own music. Several tracks did get the vocals recorded but I was only happy with the results on two of them - after that I lost interest in the project.

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What?

Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 08:40

condor wrote:

What's the difference between a lyricist and a poet?

You don't have music. A poem and a song both have to walk by themselves, with the poetry there's a lot of internal rhythm and structure that usually ends up clashing with the structure of conventional songs - I've performed with free improv musicians and backed poetry with improvised guitar and banjo parts, both of which have worked really well. If you have musical backing it's a lot more comfortable repeating yourself.

I tend to find when I write lyrics they can end up really overloaded in terms of how much sound stuff is going on within them and I've not really found a way to marry that up melodically with stuff. Also, I think with yer everyday song you need to put a lot of weight on the chorus, while I'm a lot more comfortable with having stretchy verses laden with content, which in turn puts a lot of weight on the musical side to keep up. I'm still at a working-it-out part with how the music and vox interact with the words.

There aren't many really good lyricists who read really well as poetry, in my view; I think a lot of Jacques Brel's stuff does, Jake Thackray and that vein of English comic verse often does if you cut down the choruses a bit. I think Bob Dylan's an amazing lyricist but a lot of it's written for a specific musical structure and drops off without that.

Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 14:05

Nah, I'm more of a drummer than a lyricist myself, you know!

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Progrockdude

Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 14:32

I checked number four. I am a musician but I don't sing and I have never attempted to write lyrics.

All the songs I've recorded are instrumental and were never meant to have lyrics.

I don't know the first thing about writing songs except that there is more to it than making the last

word in every line rhyme.

Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 14:33

condor wrote:

What's the difference between a lyricist and a poet?

Not much, really. One goes broke trying to succeed in music and the other goes broke in a literary sense.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 19:52

Dean wrote:

Back to the topic: I have written some lyrics for an (as yet unreleased) album of my own music. Several tracks did get the vocals recorded but I was only happy with the results on two of them - after that I lost interest in the project.

I'm wondering if you felt comfortable singing them yourself, as opposed to getting someone to do them for you? In my case my voice is crap. That by itself seems to stunt any real progress for me in writing lyrics. I'd have to really rely on an "inner voice" I suppose.

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 21:12

HackettFan wrote:

Dean wrote:

I initially got others to sing the songs (my original concept for the album was for five different vocalists including myself). The first two sessions went rather well, the singers adapted their vocal style to fit my kind of music and managed to interpret the lyrics as I had envisioned them. When I then tried singing my parts I discovered I didn't like the sound of my own voice very much - I suspect that was due mainly to my not having sung anything since my voice broke some 33 years earlier, but I was singing on-key and the results weren't too embarrassing, thou I would have preferred to rerecord them with someone else singing. The session with the third singer was a disaster and I never could manage to arrange a suitable date for the fourth singer.

More than that, I found the whole thing frustrating - I generally work very quickly because as a one-man band I'm in full control of my time and energy and in a very short time span had written all the lyrics and composed 55 minutes of music to accompany them...

in my blog-diary from March, 2002 I wrote:

the lyrical interlude

As I had never written a lyric before and have only ever written a couple of poems in my entire life, the prospect of adding words to this first song ['Staring Into The Sun'] and any subsequent songs was, needless to say, daunting. However, fired-up by my enthusiasm for the project and encouraged by the music composed thus far, the words came very easily. After a small amount of editing to remove 'night & light' clichés, I soon had enough words for the CD. Of the eight lyrics written, one still bothered me a little. I had based the chorus on the title of my main website, the silence of darkness, but could not shift Delerium's "Silence" (as sung by Sarah McLachlan) from my head, so i rewrote it... twice.

With some minor shuffling these eight lyrics even fitted together in an order that could be interpreted as a vague story, should anyone so desire.

back to the music

Many long nights were wasted trying write music around those words. The outcome was dreadful. Really painfully, embarrassingly, dreadful. So I put the words to one side and forgot about them while getting down to the task of writing more music in a similar vein to 'Staring Into The Sun'. Within a relatively short space of time I had 11 pieces of music that I liked and a couple that were simply too happy (wait for the 'Unbeatably Happy Music for the Cynically Deaf' compilation CD). Then the night before we set off for the Whitby Gothic Weekend, I sat down and added melodies to eight of these so the lyrics could be sang over them. I spent the idle moments of that weekend listening to a rough mix of the entire album while reading the words. By the time i returned home the final melodies and phrasings were fixed in my mind. I had also planned who I would like to sing which parts.

...but by August I had only recorded half the vocals and in September of 2002, following the disastrous session with the third singer, I put the project on indefinite hold.

Now some 13 years later I'm no longer enthused by the thematic concept of the album so if I were to finish the album I'd re-write most of the lyrics, including those of the two songs that came out okay.

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What?

Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 22:35

HackettFan wrote:

Yeah. Well, it would be very interesting to get some information about this from the professionals too. Perhaps we could guess some of them... or there is information from interviews, bios, etc, from some others.

Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 23:08

I only write prose.

Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 08:04

I would like to be, though I can't say I've tried. I play keyboard/piano though.

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Posted By: Skalla-Grim
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 08:51

I'm a keyboard player and I write my own music. I have also written some lyrics but I'm aware that others can't really understand what I've written, not because they are stupid but because the contents are very personal. The lyrics are not really complex, but the sources of my inspiration are rather obscure.

Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 08:59

I'm of the view that the style of lyric for prog really is a result of the type of music. You can't have a forty minute suite with unambitious earnest lyrics. You can either go ambitious or silly and occasionally both. Prog never really did anything as pretentious as Tommy, either.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 09:48

Dean wrote:

I initially got others to sing the songs (my original concept for the album was for five different vocalists including myself). The first two sessions went rather well, the singers adapted their vocal style to fit my kind of music and managed to interpret the lyrics as I had envisioned them. When I then tried singing my parts I discovered I didn't like the sound of my own voice very much - I suspect that was due mainly to my not having sung anything since my voice broke some 33 years earlier, but I was singing on-key and the results weren't too embarrassing, thou I would have preferred to rerecord them with someone else singing. The session with the third singer was a disaster and I never could manage to arrange a suitable date for the fourth singer.

It sounds like your vocal ability didn't hold you back in terms of writing lyrics. And that's nice. I suppose I could just write to my voice. Glyn Havard (from my much adored Jade Warrior) always had/has a very limited range not unlike my own. He nevertheless manages to do justice to the fairly eloquent lyrics he's written over the years.

Dean wrote:

More than that, I found the whole thing frustrating - I generally work very quickly because as a one-man band I'm in full control of my time and energy and in a very short time span had written all the lyrics and composed 55 minutes of music to accompany them...

I definitely relate to this, being a one-man band of sorts myself too, and very concerned about my time and energy. "Daunting" was the word you used in your blog. I'd likely find some parts of the process of hiring others frustrating too.

Dean wrote:

...but by August I had only recorded half the vocals and in September of 2002, following the disastrous session with the third singer, I put the project on indefinite hold.

mmm...yes, the last thing I would need is another unfinished project.

Dean wrote:

Now some 13 years later I'm no longer enthused by the thematic concept of the album so if I were to finish the album I'd re-write most of the lyrics, including those of the two songs that came out okay.

Alas. It sounds like you might have more satisfaction with the instrumental side of that project. I do like what I've heard of your music, incidentally.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 09:59

The skewing in the poll results is there, but only very minor so far. Curiously, no one has selected the 'I sing and I write lyrics' choice. There is a flaw in the options in that some might do all three - write lyrics, play an instrument, and do vocals - and that's not there as an option. Hopefully people can let us know when that pertains to them in a post.

Posted By: Disparate Times
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 10:15

Option number two should read instrument(s) for those of us who do it all

Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 11:07

I was a poet/lyricist for decades, but hung up the guitar professionally about fifteen years ago, and have since concentrated on prose fiction.

I guess one could say....the desire for musical rhyme / once with accord did chime / in manner so dear and sublime / has faded fleeting over time.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 21:35

HackettFan wrote:

It sounds like your vocal ability didn't hold you back in terms of writing lyrics. And that's nice. I suppose I could just write to my voice.

Yes and No. I wrote to the particular singer's voice that each song was intended for. I knew the range and ability of all of my chosen singers as three of them sang in a band and fourth I'd heard sing karaoke on several occasions. One of the singers was classically trained and could sing anything from classical through to metal - I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to sing the parts I wrote for her, at least not without some serious coaching (and in a different octave of course) - my "inner voice" does not have this limitation so writing for a female singer whose range far exceeded mine wasn't too difficult.

HackettFan wrote:

I definitely relate to this, being a one-man band of sorts myself too, and very concerned about my time and energy. "Daunting" was the word you used in your blog. I'd likely find some parts of the process of hiring others frustrating too.

My frustration arose from the fact that I wasn't hiring, it was all done on favours and good will. I think if I had offered payment I may have been more pushy in getting everything done.

HackettFan wrote:

Alas. It sounds like you might have more satisfaction with the instrumental side of that project.

Yup, pretty much, it was easier to slink back into the attic to create instrumental albums than try and organise more recording sessions for vocals. I recorded three instrumental albums during the six months I spent trying to record the vocals for that one album.

HackettFan wrote:

I do like what I've heard of your music, incidentally.

Thanks Todd, you are too kind. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51077&PID=5222276&#5222276" rel="nofollow - I've posted demo's of two of the songs in my "cacophony of light" thread if you're interested in hearing them.

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What?

Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 21:57

I had always been uncomfortable writing lyrics.

Not anymore. Age gives you experience, which gives you perspective, which colors your voice.

What I'm writing now feels more genuine than anything I've written before- that's not to imply that previous things were not genuine, far from it. It's just that now I don't have to try so hard.

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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 21:58

And what the hell. I'll be a singer in this poll.

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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 31 2015 at 08:06

HackettFan wrote:

I play an instrument, but I've only written one lyric:

I found myself gazing at a hippopotamus
He was a whole lot larger than a lot of us
But he seemed rather tame
So I asked him his name
He preferred to remain anonymous

Funny you should write about a hippopotamus. I've also tackled the hippopotamus...

https://superluminalpachyderm.bandcamp.com/track/hippopotamus" rel="nofollow - https://superluminalpachyderm.bandcamp.com/track/hippopotamus

I write lyrics, sing, and compose music on computer using a combination of samples and software synths. I can't play an instrument per se, but I have used them to produce soundscapes relevant to what I was composing. My guitar soloing is atrocious, but with sound editing software I can turn it into something slightly more interesting.

The above track is one of those rare ones where I had a guest guitarist and vocalist. Both guests dramatically improved the track. My music is strictly a hobby.

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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions

Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: August 31 2015 at 08:41

I play an instrument, sing, and write lyrics.

I find some difficulty writing lyrics, reconciling the kinds of words I hear over the song, the things I envision when I hear the song, and the things I personally feel a need to express. The process of lyric writing is often about discovering the connection between the three and the best thing to do is just to write all of them down. Write all the ideas. With the sound-based lines, you can keep writing similar sounding lines for each one, until you have a couple that connect. That's often where I start. It's getting better for me, but I'm not as practiced as I should be.

I view vocals as much acting as it is playing an instrument. Lyrics and delivery are definitely a part of that. "Poetic" lyrics and technically correct vocals do not a good frontman make, for me, at least. It doesn't always matter if you can sing traditionally. Sometimes a good dramatization of the lyrics will do. Sometimes traditional vocals are a part of that kind of acting; sometimes they hinder it. It all depends on what you're saying and how you're saying it. Combinations will create different emotional effects (for instance, shrieking "fluffy baby bunny" is, most of the time, going to be taken as either absurd or sarcastic).

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https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music

Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: August 31 2015 at 09:48

I'm a poet. Some of my poems became lyrics. Not the best however.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: August 31 2015 at 22:32

Epignosis wrote:

I had always been uncomfortable writing lyrics.

Not anymore. Age gives you experience, which gives you perspective, which colors your voice.

What I'm writing now feels more genuine than anything I've written before- that's not to imply that previous things were not genuine, far from it. It's just that now I don't have to try so hard.

This has a real ring of truth to it. I don't write lyrics, but I do come up with topics for lyrics quite readily and quite unlike when I was younger.

Epignosis wrote:

And what the hell. I'll be a singer in this poll.

That's two now.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: August 31 2015 at 23:02

progaardvark wrote:

Funny you should write about a hippopotamus. I've also tackled the hippopotamus...

https://superluminalpachyderm.bandcamp.com/track/hippopotamus" rel="nofollow - https://superluminalpachyderm.bandcamp.com/track/hippopotamus

The above track is one of those rare ones where I had a guest guitarist and vocalist. Both guests dramatically improved the track. My music is strictly a hobby.

Super Luminal Pachyderm

genetic poo

I enjoyed this truly. The vocal sounded like a mixture of Amon Düül II and Frank Zappa. You had what seems to represent the sound of a rhino at the beginning. Do they really sound something like that, or is it how you imagine it? I'm reminded now of Adrian Belew's song, Sexy Rhino. He made up a rhino sound on the guitar and later found out they sound nothing like what he thought.

Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: August 31 2015 at 23:47

I used to write words and music, but I can't sing for Censored

. But in all honesty, I've never written one decent song, mostly because I did not have a grasp on the songwriting basics (lyrical theme, melody, refrain, chord progressions, etc.).

I haven't checked into the Composers/Songwriters Association and Improvisation threads in months. I might never go back to that.

So, I've went with Option #4.

Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: September 01 2015 at 07:52

HackettFan wrote:

progaardvark wrote:

Funny you should write about a hippopotamus. I've also tackled the hippopotamus...

https://superluminalpachyderm.bandcamp.com/track/hippopotamus" rel="nofollow - https://superluminalpachyderm.bandcamp.com/track/hippopotamus

The above track is one of those rare ones where I had a guest guitarist and vocalist. Both guests dramatically improved the track. My music is strictly a hobby.

Super Luminal Pachyderm

genetic poo

Not having ever heard what a rhino sounds like, I'd have to say maybe not. Miles Walsh did the guitar work, so I'd have ask him what he was thinking of at the time. The two of us never discussed the idea of the song, though we did spend much time talking about poop craters. I had a basic track in place with a rough guide vocal and sent it to him and he came up with all the guitar parts in about a week. We mostly discussed the positioning of them and the mix.

I would describe my lyrics as a helicopter without rotors operated by a large lasagna.

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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: September 01 2015 at 22:41

progaardvark wrote:

HackettFan wrote:

progaardvark wrote:

Funny you should write about a hippopotamus. I've also tackled the hippopotamus...

https://superluminalpachyderm.bandcamp.com/track/hippopotamus" rel="nofollow - https://superluminalpachyderm.bandcamp.com/track/hippopotamus

The above track is one of those rare ones where I had a guest guitarist and vocalist. Both guests dramatically improved the track. My music is strictly a hobby.

Super Luminal Pachyderm

genetic poo

I would describe my lyrics as a helicopter without rotors operated by a large lasagna.

Absurd and surreal, you have a way with words that entertains the hell out of me.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: September 01 2015 at 22:47

Dayvenkirq wrote:

I used to write words and music, but I can't sing for Censored

. But in all honesty, I've never written one decent song, mostly because I did not have a grasp on the songwriting basics (lyrical theme, melody, refrain, chord progressions, etc.).

I haven't checked into the Composers/Songwriters Association and Improvisation threads in months. I might never go back to that.

So, I've went with Option #4.

It was Option 4 for me too. I can't sing either. I enjoyed those threads, though. Don't stop.

Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: September 02 2015 at 11:05

HackettFan wrote:

Absurd and surreal, you have a way with words that entertains the hell out of me.

Thank you for the kind words. I strive to improve my incomprehensibility.

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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions

Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 02 2015 at 12:41

I play keyboard and I write lyrics in Farsi over 30 years.

Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: September 02 2015 at 12:59

I play some instruments and I don't write lyrics nor sing, but I don't care much about lyrics Tongue

Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: September 02 2015 at 14:09

HackettFan wrote:

Dayvenkirq wrote:

I used to write words and music, but I can't sing for Censored

. But in all honesty, I've never written one decent song, mostly because I did not have a grasp on the songwriting basics (lyrical theme, melody, refrain, chord progressions, etc.).

I haven't checked into the Composers/Songwriters Association and Improvisation threads in months. I might never go back to that.

So, I've went with Option #4.

It was Option 4 for me too. I can't sing either. I enjoyed those threads, though. Don't stop.

Duly noted. Right now beyond my extension of the key calculation method to modes I can't think of anything right now. I can keep experimenting with instrumental textures, but the problem is that I don't have good instruments and recording equipment, so my judgment of a product will be negative no matter what. Good ideas are usually quite expensive. Besides, I'm not that gifted for melody and form, so ... . Hence my writing block.

Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: September 02 2015 at 14:38

Neither.

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http://fryingpanmedia.com

Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 02 2015 at 15:25

A self conscious lyricist is usually not very good. Someone who identifies simply as a "songwriter" usually does a better job with conveying thoughts and feelings (even if that person solely focuses on lyrics) and knows how to link together both the music and the lyrics so that one compliments the other, instead of one competing with the other. It's a very subtle but important aspect of songwriting that most beginners or amateurs get wrong.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: September 02 2015 at 22:23

SteveG wrote:

A self conscious lyricist is usually not very good. Someone who identifies simply as a "songwriter" usually does a better job with conveying thoughts and feelings (even if that person solely focuses on lyrics) and knows how to link together both the music and the lyrics so that one compliments the other, instead of one competing with the other. It's a very subtle but important aspect of songwriting that most beginners or amateurs get wrong.

I recognize wisdom when I hear it ...by and large.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: September 02 2015 at 22:32

Dayvenkirq wrote:

HackettFan wrote:

Dayvenkirq wrote:

I used to write words and music, but I can't sing for Censored

. But in all honesty, I've never written one decent song, mostly because I did not have a grasp on the songwriting basics (lyrical theme, melody, refrain, chord progressions, etc.).

I haven't checked into the Composers/Songwriters Association and Improvisation threads in months. I might never go back to that.

So, I've went with Option #4.

It was Option 4 for me too. I can't sing either. I enjoyed those threads, though. Don't stop.

Good ideas are expensive. Indeed.

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 03 2015 at 02:00

HackettFan wrote:

Dayvenkirq wrote:

HackettFan wrote:

Dayvenkirq wrote:

I used to write words and music, but I can't sing for Censored

. But in all honesty, I've never written one decent song, mostly because I did not have a grasp on the songwriting basics (lyrical theme, melody, refrain, chord progressions, etc.).

I haven't checked into the Composers/Songwriters Association and Improvisation threads in months. I might never go back to that.

So, I've went with Option #4.

It was Option 4 for me too. I can't sing either. I enjoyed those threads, though. Don't stop.

Good ideas are expensive. Indeed.

Good ideas are free.

Rick Wakeman tells the story of David Bowie inviting him round to his home to hear a new song he wants Wakeman to play keys on, Bowie walks over to a collection of guitars and picks up the crappiest one and plays the song. When he's finished Wakeman asks why he played it on that guitar and not one of the better ones Bowie replies that if it sounds good on this it will sound good on anything.

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What?

Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: September 03 2015 at 09:40

Deep down, I think we all are. I mean, there's a great book existing in all of us. And if you place a roomful of chimpanzees in front of typewriters, they'll probably come up with the next great American novel. How do you like them apples?

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno

Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: September 03 2015 at 10:07

Rednight wrote:

Deep down, I think we all are. I mean, there's a great book existing in all of us. And if you place a roomful of chimpanzees in front of typewriters, they'll probably come up with the next great American novel. How do you like them apples?

Doubt it.

Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 03 2015 at 11:01

Last option. I played drums in my youth, but these days I'm simply a listener, nothing more.

Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: September 03 2015 at 12:26

HackettFan wrote:

I recognize wisdom when I hear it ...by and large.

+1. Great post, Steve.

Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 03 2015 at 12:33

Thank you, both. It's something I had to learn the hard way, so I hope my experience helps others to move a bit quicker into being an effective songwriter.

Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: September 03 2015 at 12:50

Dean wrote:

HackettFan wrote:

Dayvenkirq wrote:

HackettFan wrote:

Dayvenkirq wrote:

I used to write words and music, but I can't sing for Censored

. But in all honesty, I've never written one decent song, mostly because I did not have a grasp on the songwriting basics (lyrical theme, melody, refrain, chord progressions, etc.).

I haven't checked into the Composers/Songwriters Association and Improvisation threads in months. I might never go back to that.

So, I've went with Option #4.

It was Option 4 for me too. I can't sing either. I enjoyed those threads, though. Don't stop.

Good ideas are expensive. Indeed.

Good ideas are free.

In that case I suppose I should have been more careful when I've made that general statement. Some good ideas are free.

There was a time when I would quickly reject an idea if it didn't work on my crappy guitar. It would or would not be accepted if I played it on a guitar with an amp that were purchased at a hefty price. I was inspired by Banco to come up with an idea for the piano that's basically a melodic chord progression + a changing bass line (probably in the key of Gm), but the idea must have come at a price of a Darwin! CD.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: September 03 2015 at 21:55

Dayvenkirq wrote:

Dean wrote:

HackettFan wrote:

Dayvenkirq wrote:

HackettFan wrote:

Dayvenkirq wrote:

I used to write words and music, but I can't sing for Censored

. But in all honesty, I've never written one decent song, mostly because I did not have a grasp on the songwriting basics (lyrical theme, melody, refrain, chord progressions, etc.).

I haven't checked into the Composers/Songwriters Association and Improvisation threads in months. I might never go back to that.

So, I've went with Option #4.

It was Option 4 for me too. I can't sing either. I enjoyed those threads, though. Don't stop.

Good ideas are expensive. Indeed.

Good ideas are free.

In that case I suppose I should have been more careful when I've made that general statement. Some good ideas are free.

Ha! Great anecdote, Dean. And a good point to take home about songwriting broadly. I'll be happy to concur with Dayvenkirq's modification of his own claim to "Some good ideas are free".

Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 22:14

TGM: Orb wrote:

Doubt it.

Yeah, first-of-all, chimpanzees aren't American...

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https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music

Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: September 17 2015 at 13:58

Thank you, Dr. Goodall.

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno

Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: September 19 2015 at 13:11

I write lyrics, sing, play many instruments and write music and I'm very good at all of it.

No lack of self-confidence and above all a very humble soul. Thank you for your interest. Clap

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My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: September 20 2015 at 22:12

Dr. Occulator wrote:

I write lyrics, sing, play many instruments and write music and I'm very good at all of it.

No lack of self-confidence and above all a very humble soul. Thank you for your interest. Clap

Cool, man. Which choice did you pick? I should have had a 'do it all' choice.

Posted By: hieronymous
Date Posted: September 22 2015 at 18:44

I think I voted play an instrument but don't write lyrics - but actually I'm a play an instrument/sing/don't write lyrics person. Bass guitar is my main instrument, I can sing but prefer not to, and I do not write lyrics.

In fact, I find that I often don't listen to lyrics at all, or at most on an occasional basis. I know that there are many other people that focus in on lyrics, but I am not one of them. I actually got into a drunken fight with a friend - I said that I don't really listen to lyrics, he started going off that it wasn't possible to listen to music without listening to the lyrics, something clicked in me and I started accusing him of denying my very being by blanket rejecting my perspective and experience - it's funny, I had totally forgotten that until this thread started! It happened maybe 2005? so ten years ago, in Japan! The bar owner was a really cool guy, totally into music, and he was getting worried - it must have seemed like we were really fighting!

Even if there is a song I like, I have a really hard time remembering lyrics for some reason. I need to have them written someplace in front of me, so I can at least check each time I have a chance - I think I'm just a slacker and don't bother putting in the effort to memorize them - aren't there people that could easily recall lyrics? Maybe it's different when they are your own? But then, I don't write lyrics...

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: September 23 2015 at 23:50

hieronymous wrote:

I think I voted play an instrument but don't write lyrics - but actually I'm a play an instrument/sing/don't write lyrics person. Bass guitar is my main instrument, I can sing but prefer not to, and I do not write lyrics.

In fact, I find that I often don't listen to lyrics at all, or at most on an occasional basis. I know that there are many other people that focus in on lyrics, but I am not one of them. I actually got into a drunken fight with a friend - I said that I don't really listen to lyrics, he started going off that it wasn't possible to listen to music without listening to the lyrics, something clicked in me and I started accusing him of denying my very being by blanket rejecting my perspective and experience - it's funny, I had totally forgotten that until this thread started! It happened maybe 2005? so ten years ago, in Japan! The bar owner was a really cool guy, totally into music, and he was getting worried - it must have seemed like we were really fighting!

Even if there is a song I like, I have a really hard time remembering lyrics for some reason. I need to have them written someplace in front of me, so I can at least check each time I have a chance - I think I'm just a slacker and don't bother putting in the effort to memorize them - aren't there people that could easily recall lyrics? Maybe it's different when they are your own? But then, I don't write lyrics...

Wow, many of us feel the same way. I remember someone listening to Abacab on the radio. He changed it as soon as it transitioned to the instrumental section. I asked him what he was doing, since I suffered through the vocal with some anticipation for the instrumental (of course it's cheesy from the start, but the instrumental is a slight reprieve. He explained that he couldn't relate to music that wasn't centered around vocal. Amazement was my reaction. The same thing turned me off of Marillion by the third album. They never did any instrumentals, so I had enough of them by then.