4th Round Class: Birds of Fire v. The Rotters Club
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Topic: 4th Round Class: Birds of Fire v. The Rotters Club
Posted By: micky
Subject: 4th Round Class: Birds of Fire v. The Rotters Club
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 07:50
|
Next up... a battle of two greats! In previous rounds we did song samples, great PA's reviews, with this
round I wanted to do something a different. So I went outside PA's..
what do people outside of this site say about these albums. First up.. The Mahavishnu Orchestra - Birds of Fire In 1973, hard rock ruled the universe. But Birds of Fire , a pure instrumental jazz-rock album, managed to crack into the Billboard Top 20 Rock Charts. This was unheard of. And so was the music. Birds of Fire advanced fusion into the modern age, a mere year after the band's The Inner Mounting Flame had given it its real birth. Rock and jazz fans from all over the world tuned into the Mahavishnu Orchestra and it seemed as if there was no end in sight. Jan Hammer now played the MOOG synthesizer, and the new voice it added to the band was elevating. Sure, by foregoing the roughness of the electric piano, some of the band's anarchy was gone. But in its place, the Mahavishnu Orchestra offered jazz-rock anthems. The band's tunes were carefully built, musical brick by musical brick. Fully fleshed-out themes filled the ears, and the rhythmic intensity was strangely comforting. This was despite the fact that at any second, the course of the music would change so drastically that you needed a seatbelt. This album was recorded LOUD. In a strange and wonderful way, the loudness of the music served as a shelter from all of the problems of the outside world. And believe me, there were plenty of troubling things going on at the time. The most outstanding piece is "One Word." "ONE WORD" is THE WORD. On no other tune ever recorded by the Mahavishnu Orchestra does each member contribute so much. This was the first MO tune I ever heard, and I will never forget the chill that went up and down my spine when the band kicked in after Billy Cobham's quasi-martial drum solo. "Birds of Fire," which opens up the album, is a fusion classic. John McLaughlin scares the hell out of his guitar with his melodic convulsions. If you ever want to frighten a musical neophyte, turn your stereo up really loud and play the cover tune - it's guaranteed to send him or her fleeing. "Resolution" and "Hope" ended side one and side two of the original LP, and this juxtaposition gave the record more meaning than the continuous play CD. You could take a much needed breath while you flipped the record. The Inner Mounting Flame and Birds of Fire set the standard for great fusion music in the 1970's. It is too bad commercial considerations eventually led many companies to "pimp" from their success. McLaughlin never did, and it cost him a lot of money. and against Birds of Fire.. we have.. Hatfield and the North - The Rotters Club Featuring some of the most stunning musicianship ever associated with England's Canterbury scene, http://www.allmusic.com/artist/hatfield-and-the-north-mn0000561106" rel="nofollow - Hatfield and the North 's second LP features, like their eponymous debut, http://www.allmusic.com/artist/dave-stewart-mn0001737671" rel="nofollow - Dave Stewart on keyboards, http://www.allmusic.com/artist/phil-miller-mn0000329687" rel="nofollow - Phil Miller on guitar, http://www.allmusic.com/artist/richard-sinclair-mn0000353085" rel="nofollow - Richard Sinclair on bass and vocals, and http://www.allmusic.com/artist/pip-pyle-mn0000350404" rel="nofollow - Pip Pyle on drums (supplemented by a few guest instrumentalists and the ever-ethereal http://www.allmusic.com/artist/northettes-mn0001475189" rel="nofollow - Northettes with their "la la" backing vocals). The participants show an admirable sense of restraint and, like their Canterbury peers, are careful to avoid the pomposity and bombast of better-known prog rockers of the era, such as http://www.allmusic.com/artist/emerson-lake-palmer-mn0000798992" rel="nofollow - Emerson, Lake & Palmer and http://www.allmusic.com/artist/yes-mn0000685647" rel="nofollow - Yes . The http://www.allmusic.com/artist/hatfields-mn0000561106" rel="nofollow - Hatfields ' convoluted instrumental passages segue into the occasional http://www.allmusic.com/artist/sinclair-mn0000353085" rel="nofollow - Sinclair vocal vehicle, in which the exemplary bassist sings in a polite and mellow croon that utterly avoids melismatic displays, histrionics, or over-emoting; in other words, his style -- closer to, say, http://www.allmusic.com/artist/bing-crosby-mn0000094252" rel="nofollow - Bing Crosby than, say, http://www.allmusic.com/artist/joe-cocker-mn0000149515" rel="nofollow - Joe Cocker -- would likely cause many 21st century pop music listeners to scratch their heads with bemusement. And the songs' rather whimsical lyrical content, while perhaps another conscious attempt to steer clear of the pretentiousness of the typically overbearing prog rock song style, certainly reflects a '60s/'70s mindset more than a 21st century one, so today's jaded listeners should realign their expectations. Things get off to a strong start with "Share It," a catchy little number with http://www.allmusic.com/artist/sinclair-mn0000353085" rel="nofollow - Sinclair expressing some idealistic and hard-to-criticize Brit hippie sentiments. Elsewhere, the "songs" are few and far between, but crop up in odd spots nevertheless; http://www.allmusic.com/artist/the-hatfields-mn0000561106" rel="nofollow - the Hatfields were masters of the segue and the most accomplished demonstrations of instrumental technique wind up bleeding into ditties that might seem out of place to some. But http://www.allmusic.com/artist/stewart-mn0001737671" rel="nofollow - Stewart , http://www.allmusic.com/artist/miller-mn0000329687" rel="nofollow - Miller , http://www.allmusic.com/artist/sinclair-mn0000353085" rel="nofollow - Sinclair , and http://www.allmusic.com/artist/pyle-mn0000350404" rel="nofollow - Pyle all make wonderful instrumental statements. Particularly noteworthy are http://www.allmusic.com/artist/miller-mn0000329687" rel="nofollow - Miller 's two short jazzy numbers, "Lounging There Trying" and "Underdub," which, with their sparkling electric piano work from http://www.allmusic.com/artist/stewart-mn0001737671" rel="nofollow - Stewart , have a light and airy improvisational feel despite rather thorough scoring; http://www.allmusic.com/artist/pyle-mn0000350404" rel="nofollow - Pyle 's propulsive "Yes No Interlude" with its furious melding of http://www.allmusic.com/artist/stewart-mn0001737671" rel="nofollow - Stewart 's keyboards and the sax of guest http://www.allmusic.com/artist/jimmy-hastings-mn0000351257" rel="nofollow - Jimmy Hastings ; and http://www.allmusic.com/artist/stewart-mn0001737671" rel="nofollow - Stewart 's 20-minute opus "Mumps." The latter is particularly impressive, with everything anyone would want from an extended-form Canterbury-style workout. The piece ebbs and flows through nimbly executed thematic passages and variations, featuring one of http://www.allmusic.com/artist/stewart-mn0001737671" rel="nofollow - Stewart 's most compelling themes and also one of the best fuzz organ solos that he (or http://www.allmusic.com/artist/mike-ratledge-mn0000494355" rel="nofollow - Mike Ratledge or http://www.allmusic.com/artist/david-sinclair-mn0000182063" rel="nofollow - David Sinclair for that matter) ever recorded. Smack dab in the middle of it all, another http://www.allmusic.com/artist/sinclair-mn0000353085" rel="nofollow - Sinclair -sung tune arrives, this time making punning use of letters of the alphabet. But the suite gets back on track with a dramatic instrumental coda, melding spacy effects, more great organ playing from http://www.allmusic.com/artist/stewart-mn0001737671" rel="nofollow - Stewart , and spectacularly executed unison lines from http://www.allmusic.com/artist/miller-mn0000329687" rel="nofollow - Miller and http://www.allmusic.com/artist/hastings-mn0000351257" rel="nofollow - Hastings in crescendo before the final fade. The Virgin Records CD reissue features several live bonus tracks (also found on the http://www.allmusic.com/album/afters-mw0000364181" rel="nofollow - Afters compilation), including two comparatively crazed and heavy http://www.allmusic.com/artist/miller-mn0000329687" rel="nofollow - Miller instrumental pieces recorded in France and, from a date at the Rainbow Theatre in London, http://www.allmusic.com/artist/sinclair-mn0000353085" rel="nofollow - Sinclair 's "Halfway Between Heaven and Earth," which has a bit more of the feel of his vocal work with http://www.allmusic.com/artist/caravan-mn0000167296" rel="nofollow - Caravan than with http://www.allmusic.com/artist/the-hatfields-mn0000561106" rel="nofollow - the Hatfields . Too bad there's a premature fadeout during another great http://www.allmusic.com/artist/stewart-mn0001737671" rel="nofollow - Stewart organ solo. One wonders where the band was headed with that. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Replies:
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 08:12
| A bloody great fusion album against what might be the finest, weirdest, bubbliest example of Canterbury or jazz fusion on the site. I'm liable to go for The Rotter's Club. Will give em both another listen first, though. |
Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 08:25
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Like Birds of Fire, love The Rotters' Club. Easy decision. -------------  
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Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 08:56
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Rotters for sure. They don't need my vote yet. ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 09:56
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^ hopefully it won't 2 weeks from now. Easily TRC... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 10:09
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Rotters top 5 all time, fantastic album ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 10:49
| Mahavishnu with no dubt. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 12:43
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Two of my favorites...will have to see how this shakes out before voting. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 17:03
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Chalk up another one for the Rotters. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 17:39
| These polls are getting harder but Birds Of Fire for me...just. |
Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 18:42
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Though I love Birds of Fire lot, it can't beat The Rotter's Club. Canterbury masterpiece, one of the greatest albums ever! |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 19:14
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A hard one indeed but I give best Canterbury album to Of Queues and Cures. BoF ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 19:39
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Rotters' Club. Love it. Nerds of Tyre. Meh. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: August 29 2015 at 20:53
| not a fan of either but Rotters Club at least has that Canterbury whimsy |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 01:13
| The Rotters Club |
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 09:03
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Again, just voted against Mahavishnu Orchestra for the unjust victory against Area. ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 09:52
hahahha  That makes two of us man... I need to start a poll on that. biggest disappointments of the tournament... so many options  Birds of Fire over Arbeit Macht Frei? oh that was bad.. but was it the worst so many contenders for that crown of forumite failures at the voting booth... Crime of the Tournament is probably the front runner.. first over Sulle Corde di Aries.. ok .. understandable.. it isn't a well known album even among prog fans.. but over Uomo di Pezza. THAT was a crime against prog  those two stand out.. but were they the only ones.. oh no.. that is why these contests are so much fun. The Hatchet album not merely beating the Squire album.... but massacring it. then there is the little album that could.. I A Moon falling against that SWilson album. more than a few surprises as well how well the Triumvirat album did... beating Waterloo Lily. Never saw that coming... for a group and album whose fanclub seemed to consist of one person on this site Steely Dan making the 4th round... and not against a weak draw.. beating greats of Zeuhl, Fusion, and Symphonic prog to get there. the surprises of the tournament though.. are shared and both in the modern section. SWilson going out in the 3rd round to a album perhaps many, myself included, had never heard before the tournament... and little ol' Jean Louis making the 4th round. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 10:04
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Oh, yeah. I complaint about Supertramp as well. There is a limit for complaints? I hope not. ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 10:07
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when it comes to complaining about the tastes of our fellow forumites.. the sky is the limit man!!! ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 10:43
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The first second of Rotters Club is worth more to me than the whole of Birds of Fire. ------------- 
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Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 10:46
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micky wrote:Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 30 2015 at 15:18
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Birds of Fire is one of the best fusion albums ever made.....period. Saw these guys a few years after it came out. But.....I am a pretty big fan of Hatfield so I gotta go with Rotters Club....perhaps my favorite Canterbury album. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: August 31 2015 at 10:30
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the Hatfields in a close one for me ------------- Prog On! |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: August 31 2015 at 12:27
| Please do not take it seriously, but I voted for The Lobster's Club. |
Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: August 31 2015 at 19:10
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Burning Birds ------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: August 31 2015 at 21:59
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Hattie-pants. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Prog Sothoth
Date Posted: September 01 2015 at 11:28
| Birds of Fire. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 01 2015 at 12:14
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Rotters Club |
Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: September 02 2015 at 08:43
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Tough choice for me, but it went to the Birds... ------------- 
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 02 2015 at 08:58
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MO ------------- 
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Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: September 02 2015 at 20:36
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Rotters Club has been a bit of an eye opener for me. This is my third listen thus far and it impresses more each time. It has sufficient moments of oddness to keep things interesting but also enough melody in the hooks to satisfy my need for a bit of mellow. Its more free formish moments are still musically pleasant and nothing feels like a visit to the dentist. That may well make it too middle of the road for some but boring old farts like me appreciate it. As talented as he undoubtedly is and accepting that he keeps impeccable company its hard to dismiss MO but it simply leaves me unmoved. ------------- Andrew B “Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 03 2015 at 14:57
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^ you wouldn't be the first to consider Rotters Club a grower.. I immediately took to the first Hatfield and the North album and was sort of ehhh about this one but over the last few years it has shot way up my list of favorite albums and has definitely become my favorite of the two. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: September 03 2015 at 18:43
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The North and Hatfield. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: September 04 2015 at 18:07
Yep. While albums that take ten listens to even vaguely get the drift do test my patience, this one was hmmm from first listen and just keeps on digging in. Well worth the effort. ------------- Andrew B “Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: September 06 2015 at 11:41
I have similar feelings. I struggled with it for a long time and recently it clicked finally. So, I voted for it though that Mahavishnu album is also very good. ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: September 06 2015 at 16:23
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^ That reminds me, I have to give Hatfield another go.. ------------- "Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl." |
Posted By: symphonicman
Date Posted: September 07 2015 at 17:27
Mahavishnu Orchestra, Birds of Fire.------------- Master James of St. George. Of the fields and the sky. He used to build castles of stone, steel, and blood. But lines get broken down. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 10 2015 at 14:13
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talk about too close for comfort.. Did M.O. have anything that approached the god-like Richard Sinclair. Hell NO!! Listen to that voice and don't tell me you wouldn't give that ass to him if he had asked if he promised to sing to you afterward.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 10 2015 at 14:13
and and ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: September 10 2015 at 17:06
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Because I didn't ever get into Soft Machine and Hillage doesn't do much for me I've tended to ignore the Canterbury stuff but I have to say that Rotters Club inspired me to go looking and I'm very happy I did. Egg and Quiet Sun are already on my like list, not to mention Caravan of course. ------------- Andrew B “Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 10 2015 at 17:41
hmm.. that is like avoiding symphonic prog becuase you think Genesis were a bunch of sleep inducing hacks.. albeit clever ones..  As I'm sure you are seeing Canterbury has some substantial variance in it.. it is more a historical grouping that one of groups all sounding the same. Though obviously they do share some influences and sonic similarities. way cool man. Lots of great stuff to check out! Never quite the same ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: September 10 2015 at 19:27
Cheeky devil. 
Oh I don't think I ignored because it was Canterbury, just ignored a lot of it that was somehow SM (err thats Soft Machine not bondage) related. There is a level of subtlety that I really didn't get back in the day. Older, greyer and wiser (hey two out of three ain't bad) I can now appreciate it somewhat. Hey , even an unreconstructed G fan can take in the odd alternative. Then again, I discovered Tim Bowness yesterday so maybe not so cool. ------------- Andrew B “Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 05:55
Billy Cobham. I'm still voting for Hatfield because that's the best jazz fusion album on the site. It really is an album that does everything and does it all brilliantly. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 16:41
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I have a lot of time for Birds of Fire, but The Rotters' Club is an exquisite masterpiece. |