Most overrated Progband
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1040
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Topic: Most overrated Progband
Posted By: Radioactive Toy
Subject: Most overrated Progband
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 09:42
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This could be a nasty topic.. Porcupine tree -------------  
Reed's failed joke counter: ||||| R.I.P. You could have reached infinity.... |
Replies:
Posted By: diddy
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 09:55
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----> RUSH
----> Marillion
I just don't like these two bands and it seems that I'm almost the only one. It seems that all progheads love these two bands but I don't understand WHY? Marillion is boring and Rush sounds always the same like a normal hard rock band with Heavy Metal ambitions, just to shorten the whole thing
 but I don't have anything against them, I just don't like to listen to them, that's all... ------------- If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear... George Orwell |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 10:26
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There's nothing funny down that road..... We tried a similar thread a few months back and it turned into a pissing match. Best to let this go. Stick to "Favorites" it's less painful.
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 10:32
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My (non-aggressive but defensive!) opinion is that Marillion are a great prog band - one of the finest - that helped redefine prog in the 1980s - but lost it a bit and became boring with the assistance of "h", who I personally do not rate. Rush, OTOH are a difficult case, so I'd prefer to say they are prog and be done with the argument. Ostensibly they are a prog metal band - but they go way beyond anything any other prog metal band has ever done, and have several concept albums, awe-inspiring technicalities, symphonic grandeur, side-long (if not longer!) epic tracks - in short, loads of prog "sensibilities". Porcupine Tree are different again, and again, I'd prefer to include rather than exclude - but I don't find them to be progressive, more like regressive in that they simply use styles and forms from the prog bands of old rather than create a distinctive, progressive style. Now Uriah Heep are definitely overrated as a "prog" band, IMHO. More like a (great) rock band with prog pretensions. But it's all in the mix, as they say |
Posted By: dude
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 10:47
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FRANKIE VALLI AND THE FOUR SEASONS!!!
now theres an overated prog band!!!!
never trust a band where the lead singer is 4' 3" and SINGS LIKE A GIRL!!! hello everyone!! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 12:09
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Mariah Carey Not even Genesis. ELP, King Crimson have a 43 pages thread in this site, but Mariah does. Iván |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 14:17
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How can you say that Mariah is overrated??? Vastly underrated, IMO: As you rightly say, she ONLY HAS 43 PAGES. C'mon people - show some RESPECT!!! Keep a postin' in Mariah's thread and let's make it 100 before the year's out.
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 15:26
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
diddy wrote:Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 15:27
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------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 15:31
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RT and Cert' are right : PT is highly overrated. Indeed neither music nor vocals are interesting. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 17:15
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I find Rush to be boring, and i didnt so much like Marillion. What i have heard of Porcupine is dreadfull
But Rush definitely wins
Aaron |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 22 2004 at 17:29
| Here we go again.This topic has been done before and it was equally pointless then. |
Posted By: Aquarius
Date Posted: June 23 2004 at 00:43
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Prog is never too much overrated. In fact most bands are underrated as they hardly ever appear in the album charts (for long). ------------- Download 6 min. TRAILER (10 excerpts) of our upcoming concept album at http://www.silentagreement.nl - http://www.silentagreement.nl |
Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: June 23 2004 at 10:56
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Everyone: I don't think this thread or the question posed by Radioactive Toy is completely pointless providing that anyone posting an opinion in this thread backs it up with a reasoned argument. To just post "Rush", "Marillion" or whoever without giving a detailed explanation of why is pointless. But if the person posting can explain precisely why he/she has reached that conculsion is potentially of interest to me (and possibly to other readers who have only recently discovered the genre or band). Therefore, to those of you about to post your opinion in this thread, please only do so if you can explain why (and I don't mean "because it's boring"; "it's not prog" or whatever)! Thanks. |
Posted By: 5 minute solo
Date Posted: June 23 2004 at 11:44
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This going to turn ugly sooner or later, because everyone will hate one band and everyone else will like them. It's like orgies, some people hate them and some people love them. I'm not sure where the orgy analagy came from. I've just had a lot on my mind recently. ------------- You want the spoon? You can't handle the spoon! |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: June 23 2004 at 13:00
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That's basically why we stopped the last thread about "Overated" bands and crappy albums. As maani puts it; It's all "meat or poison."
Just leave it alone.... If you want to trash a band, or album, write a review and support your argument.
Okay, Orgies.... Love 'em or hate 'em? Personally, I hate 'em..... they're a pain in the arse...... |
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: June 23 2004 at 18:58
| Given the overall ratings PT has on here, I'm shocked at how many of you don't like them. Same goes for Rush. I really like both bands, but each to their own... |
Posted By: arqwave
Date Posted: June 23 2004 at 20:54
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Every person has a very personal opinion that might crach into others, to me a highly overrated band (despite the fact that is one of my favorites) is DREAM THEATER, more than rush and marillion or even porcupine tree, and actually they are now a flag to some newcommers, so, we cannot complain about a thing like this, i rather be composing or designing and of course listening to my favorite bands peace ------------- between darkness and light |
Posted By: Gaston
Date Posted: June 23 2004 at 22:22
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Rush is DEFINATELY NOT overrated. Porcupine Tree, maybe. But I don't see too many people raving about them profusely. If I'm being honest with myself I would have to say that any prog band from the 80s that didn't stick with their formal style, or early prog style is overrated. That includes Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson and a slew of others. BUT... if you aren't taking the momentary lapse of reason of the 80s into account, then I would say that bands like Gong or Arthur Brown's work and even earlier Floyd are pretty lame in comparison to other groups. The experimentation is top notch, don't get me wrong, but my reason for this is that there is no formula for their band arangements, they are just too experimental for anyone truly interested in general prog format to really listen to (at least for pleasure, on a regular basis). Often it just became a theatrical stage show or a freak out, which doesn't particularly leave a good taste in my mouth. Peter Gabriel's Genesis fell into this category too, but he at least had Genesis' stellar music to back him up. Stage shows are best left for the cinema show. -------------  
It's the same guy. Great minds think alike. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 24 2004 at 02:10
| Bands are only overrated by their own fans.If someone says that Dream Theater are the best band in the world I would tend to disagree.However they are entitled to think that if they want.So what is the point exactly of trying to prove some band is overated or not? Everyone has their own benchmarks for perfection. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 24 2004 at 02:50
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Posted By: Velvetclown
Date Posted: June 24 2004 at 04:03
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Yes But Do They Know How To Use It ??????????????????????????????????? ------------- Billy Connolly Dream Theater Terry Gilliam Hagen Quartet Jethro Tull Mike Keneally |
Posted By: 5 minute solo
Date Posted: June 24 2004 at 13:45
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Come on peolpe why don't we talk this over like civilised people and just have fun. Isn't that the real point of our inevitably meaningless lives? Oh no it was 43.
------------- You want the spoon? You can't handle the spoon! |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: June 24 2004 at 16:47
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Just for me... personally: I don't see what's so great about them... I have THE Marillion album (Misplaced Childhood), and I think there are nice pop(-prog) songs on that album (although I don't like the vocals). But that's it for me: nice no more, no less |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: June 24 2004 at 16:50
I think VB broke my tea cup over my head. 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 24 2004 at 18:12
Actually, it's A Marillion album, and yes, you are missing something... A teacup, perhaps?
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Posted By: Grobsch
Date Posted: June 25 2004 at 10:41
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Some bands are overrated... On rock in general, Led Zeppelin, but inside progressive rock some new bands are very overrated like After Crying... One of most important bands of all time for me is overrated, E.L.P.... And, perhaps, also King Crimson... Marillion is a very good band and Rush is a great band, in my personal opinion. But I think all english bands are a little bit overrated ------------- My Webpages: http://www.goblinx.com.br/en - http://www.goblinx.com.br/en http://grobsch.deviantart.com - http://grobsch.deviantart.com |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: June 25 2004 at 10:43
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http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001">
http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb045"> |
GulpPosted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 25 2004 at 11:59
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http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001"> ... ... |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: June 25 2004 at 12:10
http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001"> http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb048"> |
Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: June 25 2004 at 14:03
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YEH nice!!! I follow you for a great majority of bands ------------- 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 25 2004 at 14:54
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This thread is overated. |
Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: June 26 2004 at 01:32
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Weren't we supposed to be talking about orgies? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi"> 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 26 2004 at 04:45
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I thought it was ogres... |
Posted By: DoomHammer
Date Posted: June 26 2004 at 06:25
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IMO, i think King Crimson is overrated, i only liked the great album In The Court Of The Crimson King, and it's sequel In the Lake of Poseidon. lizard was not that good in my opinion, and i didnt like all the rest work, maybe in each album you can find one or two good tracks. I really find it strange how they are considered one of the best prog bands, and some refer to them as the legendary band and so on. their good work is so few. well, that's my opinion and i expect rocks to be thrown at me ------------- when i sell my life story, maybe i should write it first and do the living later 'cause life is so much cleaner on the page |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: June 26 2004 at 06:41
Great Froyian slip with the title there DH, would that be the "Greg Lake of Posiedon". I have to agree with what you say though, can't see what all the fuss is about with KC after ITCOTCK myself.
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Maybe you're thinking of the POSEIDON ADVENTURE!Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 26 2004 at 10:27
| Everything is overated (apart from Blueberry Muffins) |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 26 2004 at 16:44
My phone bill is overrated 
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Posted By: headboy
Date Posted: June 27 2004 at 05:41
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Mostly Autumn, definately what's all the fuss about?! |
Posted By: Aquarius
Date Posted: June 27 2004 at 06:26
Heather's voice perhaps? It's so sexy and sensual. ------------- Download 6 min. TRAILER (10 excerpts) of our upcoming concept album at http://www.silentagreement.nl - http://www.silentagreement.nl |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: June 27 2004 at 07:14
I agree with you : OVERrated. Sorry Shrinking Violet ! ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: July 01 2004 at 00:20
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Wow.. I find a lot overrated.. Not necessarily Porcupine Tree.. cause I like them, but I don't think they are actually rated to be overrated... But those that are; Dream Theatre, Spocks Beard, Caravan, Gentle Giant, Triumvirat...and definitely KC after "In the Wake of Poseidon" Larks Tongue was okay.. but Red & Discipline which get so much hype... Why? |
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: July 01 2004 at 01:44
| Ahh yes, I agree with Caravan. A good, fun band, but how their albums get hailed essencial is beyond me. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: July 01 2004 at 05:49
Red is IMHO the best KC album along with ITCOTCK. One KC album is really overrated in my opinion : LIZARD, I find it very boring (and you're right about Discipline). ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Liam
Date Posted: July 01 2004 at 06:21
lol. These are the exact 2 bands I've been listening to all the time lately. Oh well, to each his own I suppose. I don't find them overrated at all. |
Posted By: bityear
Date Posted: July 01 2004 at 06:55
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Kansas and Dream Theater! That's two overrated bands!
Way too mainstream, both of them - they have their moments, and those moments are astonishing, but genereally, both bands tried harder to keep up with the audience than anything else...  ------------- www.geocities.com/joelbitars |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: July 01 2004 at 10:40
Maybe you didn't say it loud enough:
THIS THREAD IS OVERATED. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: July 01 2004 at 12:03
| This thread shoul be deleted. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 01 2004 at 13:45
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AMEN
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Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: July 01 2004 at 22:28
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Don't shout at me Richard!!
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Posted By: moonchild
Date Posted: July 04 2004 at 14:06
I know what you mean. This is just the third post so far and I know that what's coming ahead is going to make me cry. The hatred towards bands that I like is to be expected from people on the outside who have a disdain toward progressive music in general. However, some of you whose opinions I value and agree with on some bands will find a way to drive a wedge on others. ------------- In the Wake of Poseidon |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 04 2004 at 16:29
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sorry |
Posted By: fsim
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 20:19
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prog is highly underrated now.............how can ANY of it be overrated anyway??? |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 06 2004 at 01:52
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Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: July 06 2004 at 12:53
easily! Of course Dream Theater is better than a non-prog band, but they're not one of the best prog bands... while many people tend to say so... |
Posted By: goldengirl
Date Posted: July 07 2004 at 11:02
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we are going round in circles ppl...
personally I think life is underrated, and orgies are overrated. as for bands... whats wrong with marillion? ------------- xxx |
Posted By: zappa123
Date Posted: July 13 2004 at 07:18
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RUSH(for me like any other hard rock band) MARILLION(more pop than prog) CAMEL(yes it's prog but I think they forced the music to be prog-not spontanious) I think that you can't really speak about prog after the 80's.All the masterpieces were made till 75(with few exception after).At that time the prog bands were so strong and good that is very difficult to repeat that(my opinion impossible). You can't say just "dream theater is prog and genesis,crimson,yes is prog" there is an enormous difference.And even the sound of instruments nowadays became too much polite,technican and clear.Where all that old feeling and tenderness is gone?? That is not a criticism that is just my opinion.Maybe I'm wrong. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: July 13 2004 at 08:01
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I can't really agree with your choice of bands, as all epitomise prog in their own way, but concentrate on certain aspects. Whereas Genesis were probably the "ideal" with Gabriel, as far as "pure" prog is concerned, other prog bands at the time certainly had leanings as well - one could argue that Pink Floyd are not really a prog band because everything is based either on simple chord progressions or spacey jams - early Floyd feels improvised because it was, on the whole. And then we have to start considering the Grateful Dead and all the rest of the improvising psychedelia crowd. One could also argue that Hawkwind aren't prog, Gong (too jazzy and not symphonic enough), anything from Canterbury... Rush are prog in their own Metal way - arguably the first prog metal band. "2112" is the best evidence of that, IMO, although no doubt others can think of better examples! Camel on the other hand may sound a little forced in places - but there are hundreds of prog bands that can sound forced - in my opinion, "The Battle of Epping Forest" and "The Return of the Giant Hogweed" both sound forced - not really "natural", as you put it. "Lady Fantasy" on "Mirage" is my Camel track of choice for non-believers - and what about the "Snow Goose"? Lastly, Marillion. If you're talking about "h" era Marillion, then on the whole, I'd agree. However, Fish-era Marillion just happens to comprise fantastic songs which people bought in droves. You can't blame great songwriting for a band becoming popular! Marillion are more accurately "neo-prog", coming in after the early wave (approx 1967ish-1975ish), so one would hope that the overall sound would be different. "Script..." has it all - long songs, symphonic tendencies, a concept, albeit in a somewhat subtle form, brilliant technicality in the song-writing and lyrics - and truly amazing counterpoint of multiple melodies resulting in flawless harmonies. Getting the horizontal aspects to work with the vertical aspects has been the "big issue" for composers since music progressed beyond plain chant - even Genesis "got it wrong" occasionally, settling for softer harmonies that occasionally hindered the drive behind the stucture's natural drama. "Script..." does not contain even one second of softening, but maintains a constant momentum of beautiful, progressive music that unfolds naturally - albeit not of the "old skool". There is a difference between then and now because music progresses, people's musical tastes progress, and what's been created has been created - it's time to move on. Defining what is "prog" in the 21st century is part of the fun of being into the music. I can't really speak for Dream Theater, as I have not listened to enough of their output for enough time to give it a fair chance. What I have heard, however, sounds derivative of Metallica - ie it has not really progressed from where Metallica were at when they recorded their 1st 4 albums. DT even cover Metallica, showing their roots, as it were! IMO Metallica deserve a place in the archives, as they were resonsible for a whole new progressive metal style. Well, those are my opinions on the bands you've named - welcome aboard, and please don't take offence at my ramblings - I mean well |
Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: July 13 2004 at 09:02
Or, to restate the point, progressive rock is so contrary to current musical attitudes that only in the prog community can any given band be considered over- or under-rated. Let's be honest, prog is pretentious. Any intelligent prog fan sooner or later has to come to terms with that inescapable fact. When I criticize specific bands for being too pretentious, it's all relative; "Pawn Hearts", which I consider to be the nadir of prog rock shamelessness, isn't really any more pretentious than "Close to the Edge", which I consider to be an immersive masterpiece. I'm a little surprised that so many people so enjoy VDGG's work, but I can't honestly call Peter Hammill 'over-rated' in a musical landscape where the BeeGees are featured on VH1 Storytellers and Madonna is regarded as a visionary. There's no shame in liking something with defects; music is an expression of humanity, and humans are intrinsically flawed. I love punk music, but I'll be the first to admit that it's filled with trendy, rebellious posing and some of the worst musicianship ever. It is, however, uniquely emotive and immediate; in contrast, prog is frequently devoid of emotional sophistication and quite often unduly highlights virtuosity and complexity, a trait inherited from modern jazz as well as classical music (both of which I also enjoy). No single band, or genre, can encompass the full range of musical expression. Hopefully we can be honest about a band's shortcomings and still manage to maintain our enjoyment in their particular mode of expression. However, I still think Marillion is over-rated ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi">
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Posted By: JrKASperov
Date Posted: July 13 2004 at 09:18
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Dream Theater. I hear all these people around me telling me that they are so good in their prog-metal way while Symphony X trumps them easily. Dream Theater has some weak progelements, but they are far from being as good as the real progbands. I've listened to a spock's beard album today, and same story, they do try to input their progelements, but they come out short and they stick too long to the same theme in a song, only then to jump into some weak, soft, slow part with just one instrument that plays the same un-interesting riff... BORING! ------------- Epic. |
Posted By: zappa123
Date Posted: July 18 2004 at 10:52
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threefates wrote:
Dream Theatre, Spocks Beard, Caravan, Gentle Giant, Triumvirat...and definitely KC after "In the Wake of Poseidon" Larks Tongue was okay.. but Red & Discipline which get so much hype... Why? I agree with everything except KC's Red.I think RED was one of the best records that KC produced.It's my favourite KC album.And Caravan are not so bad don't you think?
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Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: August 02 2004 at 18:30
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I dont think you should judge any prog rock bands as being overrated because the progressive rock movement alone is a very underrated genre of music, nowadays more than ever. Its good to see such a good variety of proggers on this site sharing their views and reviews. We have heaven. ------------- The Worthless Recluse 
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Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: August 14 2004 at 23:16
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I did not think about Porcupine Tree, but it is a good choice! I was wondering how could sound a progressive music of the mainstream alternative rock of the 90's? Well, PT is THE answer! So, if you don't like David Usher, Moist et al..., then PT is not your band! I must admit Rocket Scientists is sometimes a prog version of the alternative bands of the 90's, but they are by far more refined and complex. Now VDGG is overrated! |