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Modern album FINAL!!! Hybris v. Spirit of Eden

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Topic: Modern album FINAL!!! Hybris v. Spirit of Eden
Posted By: micky
Subject: Modern album FINAL!!! Hybris v. Spirit of Eden
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 09:10
and also after 3 months of hijacking the polls section and pissing on Steve Wilson, Neal Morse, and retro prog schlock... we have arrived to the final to have...

retro prog schlock.. even if well done.. against a brilliant album which set the course for modern progressive rock...

who will win...

Vegas has this rated as a toss up... they don't have a clue.. LOL


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip



Replies:
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 09:15
If you vote for Spirit Of Eden you will end world hunger...you don't hate starving children, do you?ShockedCry


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Magma America Great Make Again


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 09:16
Spirit of Eden... by many.. MANY lightyears.  Only 2 albums in the modern contest would have got the vote over it.. and both of those went out in the first round and sure as hell were NOT retro prog albums LOL


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 09:18
"Hybris" has never really grown on me, but I find myself listening to it much more often than "Spirit Of Eden" - my favourite Talk Talk record that I've owned for a long time now. Still there's no question it's Talk Talk for me, but I imagine Anglagard will win this, especially seeing their PA rating. "Hybris" is fairly inconsistent IMO, but "Jordrok" is an excellently written, quintessential prog song, so I certainly won't be angry if they do win.


Posted By: MothTwiceborn
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 09:29
I'm not allowed to vote apparently, but deffo Spirit of Eden.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 09:31
Originally posted by MothTwiceborn MothTwiceborn wrote:

I'm not allowed to vote apparently, but deffo Spirit of Eden.


it is open for a week.. you need a certain number of points/posts before you can vote in polls here.  A lame attempt to keep people from creating fake ID's and voting multiple times.. 

like anyone would do that WinkLOL


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 10:01
First vote for Hybris.


Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 10:08
Didn't expect Spirit of Eden to go this far. Oh well, it sure deserves it Clap

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"Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl."


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 10:11
Originally posted by Imperial Zeppelin Imperial Zeppelin wrote:

Didn't expect Spirit of Eden to go this far. Oh well, it sure deserves it Clap


likely giving it 5 bonus votes for knocking PT out of the tournament LOLClap At least we did not get a SWilson /PT modern final. I might have.. sh*t.. WOULD have left the forum if that had happened.


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 10:13
Is Talk Talk prog? 

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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 10:15
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Is Talk Talk prog? 


is it a clone of 70's prog.. nope. 


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 10:24
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Is Talk Talk prog? 
Of course not. Spirit of Eden is a great album of 80s Art Rock (70s Art Rock had not contain that ambiental element). Actually, this is a "prog vs art rock" (i.e. "progressive rock album vs non progressive rock album") poll.
 


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 10:30
Talk Talk is not even Prog.

BTW: Retro Prog is a silly tag, it's only Symphonic Prog, a genre that still lives today.

There's retro Pop because Pop tends to have a short lapse of life, but Prog is made to last, so something recorded 20 years after the genre started is not retro.

It's like calling Classical Era as retro Baroque.

Hybris is PURE PROG.


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Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 10:37
Spirit of Eden. One of the best I discovered on the modern polls (I didn't listen to half of the albums though Embarrassed).


Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 11:35
Spirit

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Posted By: LearsFool
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 11:44
Hybris is strong and tight, but Spirit of Eden is overwhelmingly beautiful, and constructed with the utmost skill and care.

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Posted By: sublime220
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 12:23
Don't like either. Will go with Hybris.

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There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...


Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 12:27
Fairly nice vs. Tedious. Easy win for Hybris.


Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 13:25
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Is Talk Talk prog? 

Not really.

Hybris for me by a fair way.


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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 14:04
Hybris

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 14:14
Hybris.  Gave Spirit of Eden its first listen today.  It was OK, but I have no idea how it is even being discussed on a prog site.  How in the world has it made it this far in the tournament?????


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Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 14:43
Talk Talk are not prog. They are too good to be prog.

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"Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl."


Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 14:48
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Hybris.  Gave Spirit of Eden its first listen today.  It was OK, but I have no idea how it is even being discussed on a prog site.  How in the world has it made it this far in the tournament?????


Well, there are lots of people who don't think Rush are prog either Wink...


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 14:51
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Hybris.  Gave Spirit of Eden its first listen today.  It was OK, but I have no idea how it is even being discussed on a prog site.  How in the world has it made it this far in the tournament?????
 
By being one of the greatest albums ever recorded...?
 
That said, it's not an album to grok on one listen. My first spin, shortly after it came out, didn't make much impression on me either. I shelved it, but came back to it periodically, and eventually it clicked. I'm enduringly pleased that I made the effort with it.
 


Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 14:57
Hybris!

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Guigo

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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 15:12
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Hybris.  Gave Spirit of Eden its first listen today.  It was OK, but I have no idea how it is even being discussed on a prog site.  How in the world has it made it this far in the tournament?????


Well, there are lots of people who don't think Rush are prog either Wink...
It wouldn't be polite for me to share my opinion of those people. 

I didn't dislike the Talk Talk album, I just didn't find myself overly impressed with it either.  I will be the first to admit that one listen doesn't make me an expert so maybe it will impress more with future listens, but I couldn't help but think that the people who are praising this album are the same people who hate Porcupine Tree and Hogarth era Marillion.


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Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 16:08
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

...but I couldn't help but think that the people who are praising this album are the same people who hate Porcupine Tree and Hogarth era Marillion.

Out of interest, what difference would it make if they were?


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 16:09
^^I absolutely adore PT and SWilson and I voted for double talkBig smile 

I still don't get the huge praise that Hybris gets - although it did help bring prog back on the map when it first came out. If I want a modern version of King Crimson, I'd much rather put on some Nebelnest or Guapo's 5 Suns.



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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 16:15
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Hybris.  Gave Spirit of Eden its first listen today.  It was OK, but I have no idea how it is even being discussed on a prog site.  How in the world has it made it this far in the tournament?????
Depends on how you define "prog", but we are not having this conversation, are we?
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

... but I couldn't help but think that the people who are praising this album are the same people who hate Porcupine Tree and Hogarth era Marillion.
Trust me: I don't know a lot about Marillion, nor do I hate PT.




Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 16:26
Just for the record: I don't hate either PT or SW - I just don't think they are the best thing since sliced bread as far as modern progressive rock is concerned. As to Hogarth-era Marillion, I know too little about them to judge, let alone bash them. What I have heard did not turn me off, but neither did it rock my world.

Anyway, I haven't been interested in "what is/is not prog?" debates for years, and am much more concerned about what I like and what I don't.


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 16:29
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

^^I absolutely adore PT and SWilson and I voted for double talkBig smile 

I still don't get the huge praise that Hybris gets - although it did help bring prog back on the map when it first came out. If I want a modern version of King Crimson, I'd much rather put on some Nebelnest or Guapo's 5 Suns.



I think Hybris is the weakest Anglagard record. They hadn't really absorbed their influences.

5 Suns is an interesting case. Based on the Hackney Empire KC gig a couple of weeks ago, Guapo were if anything pre-emptively ripping off the 2015 version


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 16:30
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

If I want a modern version of King Crimson, I'd much rather put on some Nebelnest or Guapo's 5 Suns.

Hey the Nebs, no one talks about them anymore.   Love NoVa eXPReSS .



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 16:44
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

^^I absolutely adore PT and SWilson and I voted for double talkBig smile 

I still don't get the huge praise that Hybris gets - although it did help bring prog back on the map when it first came out. If I want a modern version of King Crimson, I'd much rather put on some Nebelnest or Guapo's 5 Suns.



I think Hybris is the weakest Anglagard record. They hadn't really absorbed their influences.

5 Suns is an interesting case. Based on the Hackney Empire KC gig a couple of weeks ago, Guapo were if anything pre-emptively ripping off the 2015 version

I have only streamed a couple of the subsequent albums, but they didn't grab me either. Killer musicians though...but then again so are The Flower Kings.

As for your last remark: AAAAAARRGGHHH!!! Me so jealous. 




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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: bloodnarfer
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 16:45
wow! I can't believe semi finals came down to Choirs of the Eye v De-loused v Within the Realm of a Dying Sun v Part the Second *rubs eyes* oh nevermind.

But I never expected talk talk to make it this far so that's pretty neat.  


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http://www.last.fm/user/ramza1316" rel="nofollow - www.last.fm/user/ramza1316
https://open.spotify.com/user/1211221845" rel="nofollow - https://open.spotify.com/user/1211221845


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 16:45
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

If I want a modern version of King Crimson, I'd much rather put on some Nebelnest or Guapo's 5 Suns.

Hey the Nebs, no one talks about them anymore.   Love NoVa eXPReSS .


Me too. That was, incidentally, also the album I was thinking of.
Great band with a very impressive rhythm section.




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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 17:49
Hybris 

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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN


Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 18:01
Very tough choice here as the Talkers album has become a new favorite of sorts.  Guess I will stir the pot with Spirit of Eden.

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 18:45
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Depends on how you define "prog", but we are not having this conversation, are we?



a fun discussion for sure.. but ultimatelyu pointless as there is no answer.. only what the individual perceives it to be.

that said.. that is why I found this particular final to be so much more interesting than the one legged ass kicking contest of a classic final.  Sleepy

This one has sauce..  so what does one really prefer.. old school 'prog rock'.. or new school 'progressive rock'.  That is why Vegas couldn't figure out how this contest would go.. naturally there will be more old school fans here than those inclined to more expirmental or ground breaking music. Oh the irony.. but that is balanced out by Spirit of Eden being an album that will still be highly regarded in 50 years.. while the Hybris album lost to time. it simply isn't a special album. Just a popular one to today's prog fan.  Spirit of Eden was a watershed musical movement that launched a entirely distinct and still very relevant today musical movement..which has been embraced by the prog rock camp.. even if sounds nothing like old school prog.



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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 18:49
Mike you should write a book (or at least a column).



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 18:50
not enough sex or violence in prog to make it worth my while LOL


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 18:52
Yes it is a somewhat tame scene, but it is rock and there is debauchery to be found underneath logs and stuffed in the backs of drawers.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 18:57
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Yes it is a somewhat tame scene, but it is rock and there is debauchery to be found underneath logs and stuffed in the backs of drawers.



hmmm.. yeah true that. I should set my crack team of Progspin investigative reporters to finding it...  I'd start with Fripp.. you know he's probably got a few skeletons in the closet.


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 18:58
I would add my own 2 cents to what my better half just wrote in his post. Of these two albums, Spirit of Eden is the one that stands a chance to appeal to an audience other than established, long-time prog fans. If we really want progressive rock to last beyond the natural life span of its initiators and first-hour followers, we need to expand its definition - or, instead of a living art form, we will be left with a museum artifact. As much as I dislike Prog magazine, I think their decision to expand their scope to include bands such as Tame Impala was an excellent move.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 19:04
like it or not (purists and elitists) that is where progressive rock is today.. and continuing to go.  For the 100th time darling.. think back to what that dude from White WIillow wrote after Nearfest bit the dust. It is a new world out there... and was time for a divorce of the old school prog rock and new school progressive rock camps.  Some love both, many love and will support one or the other to the determint of the other.

Many of these bands don't associate, classify themselves as 'prog' nor restrict themselves are their potential audiences by pining for the few open minded prog fans out there.  They are going after todays open minded listener who just does not care if it is labeled prog rock or progressive rock or what have you..  they simply care if it is good and entertaining.  Thankfully there are a lot of bands out there putting out just such music for open minded fans of adventurous music. 


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 19:18
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

not enough sex or violence in prog to make it worth my while LOL

Now that the Vatican and the Papacy hooked on prog you'll have sex and violence to the extreme... Evil Smile


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Guigo

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 19:21
YES!!! LOL

god I love this Pope...Clap


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 19:50
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

like it or not (purists and elitists) that is where progressive rock is today.. and continuing to go.  For the 100th time darling.. think back to what that dude from White WIillow wrote after Nearfest bit the dust. It is a new world out there... and was time for a divorce of the old school prog rock and new school progressive rock camps.  Some love both, many love and will support one or the other to the determint of the other.

Many of these bands don't associate, classify themselves as 'prog' nor restrict themselves are their potential audiences by pining for the few open minded prog fans out there.  They are going after todays open minded listener who just does not care if it is labeled prog rock or progressive rock or what have you..  they simply care if it is good and entertaining.  Thankfully there are a lot of bands out there putting out just such music for open minded fans of adventurous music. 


Talktalk felt really backwards looking to me, with hints of Velvets and Floyd rather than being anything that leaps out and brains me and steals my wallet. I'm mostly just bitter that the final isn't between



and



But y'know, hopefully next year the pope takes all.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 20:36
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Hybris.  Gave Spirit of Eden its first listen today.  (...) How in the world has it made it this far in the tournament?????
I think it's mostly a generational thing because for many people here  - I mean, for that generation who was started to listening to music in 80s i.e. for those who "musically" grew up in the 80s - Talk Talk was favourite band or at least one of their top favourities, due to Talk Talk's 80s synth pop hits at MTV. And for them that ambiental / art rock Spirit of Eden release was a "revelation". I mean, for that generation who grow up with that 80s sh*t techno and synth pop, Spirit of Eden really was a "mindblowing" album. They were discovered the Progressive rock later,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhLcB2yjhgU" rel="nofollow - but true love never dies.


Posted By: LearsFool
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 21:43
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Hybris.  Gave Spirit of Eden its first listen today.  (...) How in the world has it made it this far in the tournament?????
I think it's mostly a generational thing because for many people here  - I mean, for that generation who was started to listening to music in 80s i.e. for those who "musically" grew up in the 80s - Talk Talk was favourite band or at least one of their top favourities, due to Talk Talk's 80s synth pop hits at MTV. And for them that ambiental / art rock Spirit of Eden release was a "revelation". I mean, for that generation who grow up with that 80s sh*t techno and synth pop, Spirit of Eden really was a "mindblowing" album. They were discovered the Progressive rock later,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhLcB2yjhgU" rel="nofollow - but true love never dies.

Well, when we were all hanging around Detroit in the '80's, we found that Spirit of Eden was a natural progression from the group's new wave sounds and just ate it up. "I Believe In You" was a massive hit in many clubs, and you could find its music video on MTV sometimes, late at night. Magical times. Got many of us into prawg. Tongue


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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: September 26 2015 at 23:02
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Just for the record: I don't hate either PT or SW - I just don't think they are the best thing since sliced bread as far as modern progressive rock is concerned. As to Hogarth-era Marillion, I know too little about them to judge, let alone bash them. What I have heard did not turn me off, but neither did it rock my world.

Anyway, I haven't been interested in "what is/is not prog?" debates for years, and am much more concerned about what I like and what I don't.
Amen to that.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 01:46
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

(...)

Anyway, I haven't been interested in "what is/is not prog?" debates for years, and am much more concerned about what I like and what I don't.
Spirit of Eden is not a borderline case from, say, 2012 or 2014, that "we" had to discuss whether it is prog or not because a new band mixed 70s prog with pop, jazz, post-rock and folk.
Spirit of Eden is not Progressive rock at all, actually it is not prog album on the first listen nor even after hundreds of listening, it's a different genre than prog, and that genre have its name and that's name is Art Rock.
Art Rock section was stupidly thrown out from the PA, I presume for reasons to insert artificial categories as "Prog Related" and "Crossover Prog". And as a result you have e.g. 10cc, one of the greatest 70s Art Rock bands, in that artificial "prog related" category. That was a big disgrace to do that for such a band as 10cc to call them "prog related" instead of Art Rock - the real genre where they actually belongs in the history of rock music in general.
So Talk Talk belongs to PA due to Spirit of Eden, but only in the case that the Art Rock section still exists.


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 02:30
^So the lady says that she isn't interested in discussing this matter, and then you naturally start discussing it with her? Brilliant.
No means yes.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:14
Hybris.

While I can see why Spirit of Eden is considered prog, it is effectively the blue print for a lot of post rock, I still find it mind numbingly boring.


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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:23
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

^So the lady says that she isn't interested in discussing this matter, and then you naturally start discussing it with her? Brilliant.
No means yes.
Well, you're enough smart to know that at the internet forums when one hit the reply button, quoting someone else and posting something, then everybody reads that; in this particular case, it's about whether Spirit of Eden , as an 80s art-rock album, is prog or not, as in real life and in cyber space outside of PA it never was Smile


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:26
^ Svetonio, not only are you being arrogant; you are also not making much sense (at least to me). Let it go.
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

... in this particular case, it's about whether Spirit of Eden , as an 80s art-rock album, is prog or not, as in real life and in cyber space outside of PA it never was Smile
I believe that's the kind of discussion Raff did not wish to have - she does not care for categorization ... no matter where you are, in cyberspace or not.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:38
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

Hybris.

While I can see why Spirit of Eden is considered prog, it is effectively the blue print for a lot of post rock, I still find it mind numbingly boring.
Post Rock with its roots had nothing to do with Progressive Rock. Even in the PA, there aren't listed all of the post-rock bands but only those post-rock bands who "sounded as modern prog" (lol) to few individuals who were put King Crimson in that former Art Rock section because they didn't knew a lot about prog rock when they found these pages. And they are continued to make sh*t.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:40
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ Svetonio, not only are you being arrogant; you are also not making much sense (at least to me). Let it go.
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

... in this particular case, it's about whether Spirit of Eden , as an 80s art-rock album, is prog or not, as in real life and in cyber space outside of PA it never was Smile
I believe that's the kind of discussion Raff did not wish to have - she does not care for categorization ... no matter where you are, in cyberspace or not.
Arrogant?! Bullsh*t. I just discussed this matter as everobody else.
It's nothing "arrogant" if I said the truth about the album you voted for.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:51
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ Svetonio, not only are you being arrogant; you are also not making much sense (at least to me). Let it go.
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

... in this particular case, it's about whether Spirit of Eden , as an 80s art-rock album, is prog or not, as in real life and in cyber space outside of PA it never was Smile
I believe that's the kind of discussion Raff did not wish to have - she does not care for categorization ... no matter where you are, in cyberspace or not.
Arrogant?! Bullsh*t. I just discussed this matter as everobody else.
It's nothing "arrogant" if I said the truth about the album you voted for.
No one is discussing it with you and no one cares what you think.


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What?


Posted By: Komandant Shamal
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 06:27
i voted for "Spirit of Eden".


Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 06:58
Two things, and then I'm out of this thread for good:

1) As I was in charge of the Art Rock team at the time the split was discussed and then implemented, calling said split "stupid" is fighting words. If anyone doesn't like the way PA is organized, they are free to look for a "pure" prog website where abominations such as having 10cc in Prog Related or Spirit of Eden categorized as prog are not to be found.

2) This is how the other major prog database - aka ProgGnosis - categorizes Talk Talk: http://www.proggnosis.com/ARTIST_Detail.aspx?AID=3681" rel="nofollow - http://www.proggnosis.com/ARTIST_Detail.aspx?AID=3681 Perhaps those who object to the Crossover Prog subgenre will find "Prog Pop" more to their taste. Moreover, to debunk the myth that PA is the only place where Spirit of Eden is labeled as prog, here's what the ProgGnosis review says: http://www.proggnosis.com/Release_Detail.aspx?RID=9980" rel="nofollow - http://www.proggnosis.com/Release_Detail.aspx?RID=9980




Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 07:29
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

Hybris.

While I can see why Spirit of Eden is considered prog, it is effectively the blue print for a lot of post rock, I still find it mind numbingly boring.


while I love to rock.. and always gravitate to more visceral music...  one can't deny that music when is at its best.. it radiates a beauty that touches the hardest or most cynical of hearts.  One that makes one feel the joy of living and the beauty of the world around us. 

Spirit of Eden was that album for me Andy. Boring?.. no more than seeing the most beautiful of women.. the most majestic of mountains.. the cutest of kittens.. the sweetest of young children. 


-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 08:31
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

Hybris.

While I can see why Spirit of Eden is considered prog, it is effectively the blue print for a lot of post rock, I still find it mind numbingly boring.


while I love to rock.. and always gravitate to more visceral music...  one can't deny that music when is at its best.. it radiates a beauty that touches the hardest or most cynical of hearts.  One that makes one feel the joy of living and the beauty of the world around us. 

Spirit of Eden was that album for me Andy. Boring?.. no more than seeing the most beautiful of women.. the most majestic of mountains.. the cutest of kittens.. the sweetest of young children. 

To each their own Micky. I've tried getting into Spirit of Eden several times and I have the same problem with it as I do most Post Rock that draws inspiration heavily from this album, while it's certainly nice and I can see perfectly well why the term beautiful is the go to adjective for it, it really struggles to hold my attention so that I can barely remember anything but the most vague impressions of the album without going back to listen to it. Something that I rarely feel inclined to do.

When it comes to beautiful music, my go to band tends to be White Willow, any of their 6 albums tend to paint the most beautiful of scenes for me. 


-------------
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 08:54
fair enough.. wasn't trying to single you out or pull a 'taste' card on you..I just found it odd to label an album boring.. when it is not remotely intending to be anything approaching inducing excitement the way a good rollicking album should.

It is what it is.. it connects with a listener or it does not. Thumbs Up


-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 08:56
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

(...) If anyone doesn't like the way PA is organized, they are free to look for a "pure" prog website where abominations such as having 10cc in Prog Related or Spirit of Eden categorized as prog are not to be found.

(...)


Nope.
I will say here that Spirit of Eden is not a Progressive rock album, because it's simply true.


Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 09:16
Hybris is a winner no matter the final results. 

Can someone imagine an album not sung in English reaching the finals? Beer


-------------
Guigo

~~~~~~


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 09:34
Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

Hybris is a winner no matter the final results. 

Can someone imagine an album not sung in English reaching the finals? Beer


Angry should have been the PFM album LOL


-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 09:40
Nonsense make that Il Balletto di Bronzo's Ys

-------------
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 09:41
hell.. BOTH!  LOL


-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 09:56
Need to listen to Talk Talk again before voting, first two times have done nothing for me.

-------------
Ian






Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 10:26
Hmmm...Eden is 27 years old and Hybris is 23 years old......not all that modern.
Neither album would make my top 50 prog list modern or not......I'll cast my vote for Hybris.


-------------
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 10:29
in 10 years we'll have 3 brackets LOL

classic
the Neo/retroprog/SWilson dark years
and a true 'modern'


-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 10:31
I prefer the Univer Zero / Present / Shub Niggurath dark years :D

-------------
Ian






Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 10:33
LOLThumbs Up

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 10:47
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I prefer the Univer Zero / Present / Shub Niggurath dark years :D

<3


-------------
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/



wtf


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 11:07
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

fair enough.. wasn't trying to single you out or pull a 'taste' card on you..I just found it odd to label an album boring.. when it is not remotely intending to be anything approaching inducing excitement the way a good rollicking album should.

It is what it is.. it connects with a listener or it does not. Thumbs Up

I know, but I've been saying EoE sucks all the way through so might as well say why I think it sucks. For me boring is when an album fails to connect in anyway with me, music doesn't have to be full on hard rockign to be exciting, or riveting, but it does have to grab my attention in some way. That last sentence couldn't be more true. 

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

(...) If anyone doesn't like the way PA is organized, they are free to look for a "pure" prog website where abominations such as having 10cc in Prog Related or Spirit of Eden categorized as prog are not to be found.

(...)


Nope.
I will say here that Spirit of Eden is not a Progressive rock album, because it's simply true.


This is why most people consider you a complete arse, because it's simply true.


-------------
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 11:14
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:



Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Nope.
I will say here that Spirit of Eden is not a Progressive rock album, because it's simply true.


This is why most people consider you a complete arse, because it's simply true.

ClapClapClap


-------------
Ian






Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 12:05
Hybris is good, but Spirit of Eden changed my life.


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: September 27 2015 at 23:53
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Need to listen to Talk Talk again before voting, first two times have done nothing for me.
Not sure if "forced", premeditated (as opposed to "casual") listens are conducive to appreciation. Worked for AEProgman (strangely), but it might not work for you.


Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 04:03
Although I very much admire Talk Talk, who used to be a more commercial band, for their very unusual move towards very original and uncommercial music (usually inventive bands turn commercial after some years), I choose with my heart: Hybris is closer to my heart.


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 12:19
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Need to listen to Talk Talk again before voting, first two times have done nothing for me.
Not sure if "forced", premeditated (as opposed to "casual") listens are conducive to appreciation. Worked for AEProgman (strangely), but it might not work for you.

Well 3 listens in and it's just not working for me. Hybris it is (though my heart is with Guapo)


-------------
Ian






Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 12:20
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Need to listen to Talk Talk again before voting, first two times have done nothing for me.
Not sure if "forced", premeditated (as opposed to "casual") listens are conducive to appreciation. Worked for AEProgman (strangely), but it might not work for you.

Yeah, I think forced or hurried listening usually does not have the same effect.  When I first listened to Talk Talk, it happened to be the right time and was sort of a casual listen and was ready to kick back and try something new.  It just struck a chord with me (pun not intended) and clicked.  That and an extra glass of Merlot may have had something to do with it. Beer

The beauty of these silly polls is to get exposed to new music which is always a good thing!


-------------


Posted By: Skalla-Grim
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 14:01
Doesn't matter because I can't vote for Koenjihyakkei. No vote


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 14:12
Originally posted by Skalla-Grim Skalla-Grim wrote:

Doesn't matter because I can't vote for Koenjihyakkei. No vote


in a knock-out tournament final you don't get to vote on an album that has already been knocked out. Sorry, but life's like that.

-------------
What?


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 14:25
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:



Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Nope.
I will say here that Spirit of Eden is not a Progressive rock album, because it's simply true.


This is why most people consider you a complete arse, because it's simply true.

ClapClapClap

ClapClapClap


Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 15:27
Love Talk Talkt, but Hybris wins to me.

-------------

Follow me on twitter @memowakeman


Posted By: Disparate Times
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 15:36
Talk talk easily, this is like a slap in the face to modern prog with the age of these two finalist.


Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 18:52
Hybris is a nice album. How much I enjoy tends to vary a bit but it is one of those albums that you can throw on when you cannot think of something else. Therein lies its problem I guess. What's more I've not really been motivated by Hybris to go off and explore more of Anglagard's catalogue. Nonetheless I'm going to do so and have another full listen to Hybris before I vote.

Otoh, Eden has me totally sucked in and has had since pretty much first listen. The bombast of 70's Prog/ArtRock/Symphonic whatever the truck you want to call it was for me a wondrous thing but even back then I needed on occasion something a bit simpler, a bit cleaner and for me a bit bleaker to clear the bombast induced fog. Not that there was anything wrong with the fog but we all need some shade with our light. Full moon is a wondrous thing as it rises over the ocean but its only on moonless nights that you get to see the stars. What is more, Eden has had me scrabbling to find what else these guys did and I'm starting to get a bit pissed that I didn't find them 30 years ago. Eden may be their masterpiece but Colour of Spring and Laughing Stock are not to be sneezed at. Nor is Mark Hollis' S/T solo album.




-------------
Andrew B

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx


Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 19:00
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Skalla-Grim Skalla-Grim wrote:

Doesn't matter because I can't vote for Koenjihyakkei. No vote


in a knock-out tournament final you don't get to vote on an album that has already been knocked out. Sorry, but life's like that.

Well I love Koenji too but I still voted.

I mean... I'm probably gonna have to choose between a butthole and a wackjob for president and I'll probably vote for something at least or maybe write in my dad's name.


-------------
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/



wtf


Posted By: Rando
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 19:27
Originally posted by t d wombat t d wombat wrote:

"...What is more, Eden has had me scrabbling to find what else these guys did and I'm starting to get a bit pissed that I didn't find them 30 years ago. Eden may be their masterpiece but Colour of Spring and Laughing Stock are not to be sneezed at. Nor is Mark Hollis' S/T solo album.


Totally agree - Also very much attached to their earlier album "The Party's Over" the title track, an amazing song which should have had more notice - I never tire listening to Mark Hollis' passionate voice -

Smile 


-------------
- Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats -


Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 19:47
just broke the tie in favor of Talk Talk


Posted By: symphonicman
Date Posted: September 28 2015 at 22:02

Änglagård, Hybris.



-------------
Master James of St. George.
Of the fields and the sky.
He used to build castles of stone, steel, and blood.
But lines get broken down.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 29 2015 at 00:50
Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

Hybris is a winner no matter the final results. 

Can someone imagine an album not sung in English reaching the finals? Beer
Exactly. Hybris is already the winner regarding prog albums which were at the polls of 'modern' albums as it was defined by the poster himself.
As Spirit of Eden is not a prog album but an art-rock/ambiental effort made by well know 80s British New Wave makers of sh*t synth pop hits what were the anthithesis of prog rock at the time, Hybris is the winner!
So, cheers for the winner album sung in the native language of such a great prog rock band Änglagård Beer
 


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 29 2015 at 01:04
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Talk Talk is not even Prog.

BTW: Retro Prog is a silly tag, it's only Symphonic Prog, a genre that still lives today.

There's retro Pop because Pop tends to have a short lapse of life, but Prog is made to last, so something recorded 20 years after the genre started is not retro.

It's like calling Classical Era as retro Baroque.

Hybris is PURE PROG.
The term 'retro-prog' could be used as a description only, and only for the albums by the bands who insisted on vintage instruments like 70s analog synths, full analog recording process and so on.


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 29 2015 at 01:14
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

The term 'retro-prog' could be used as a description only, and only for the albums by the bands who insisted on vintage instruments like 70s analog synths, full analog recording process and so on.

Why retro?

Why a musical genre has to last 2, 3 or 15 years?

Symphonic started with The Nice (IMHO) and lasts until today.

Probably retro could be used in genres created to be an ephemeral fashion and died after a period of time like Disco, but Prog was created to last, and Symphonic of today is as valid as Symphonic from the 70's.

Anglagard played the same Symphonic as Genesis or King Crimson's debut, they are retro nothing, Symphonic never died.


-------------
            


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 29 2015 at 01:24
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

The term 'retro-prog' could be used as a description only, and only for the albums by the bands who insisted on vintage instruments like 70s analog synths, full analog recording process and so on.

Why retro?

Why a musical genre has to last 2, 3 or 15 years?

Symphonic started with The Nice (IMHO) and lasts until today.

Probably retro could be used in genres created to be an ephemeral fashion and died after a period of time like Disco, but Prog was created to last, and Symphonic of today is as valid as Symphonic from the 70's.

Anglagard played the same Symphonic as Genesis or King Crimson's debut, they are retro nothing, Symphonic never died.
I agreed 100% that symphonic prog is a living genre, so that symphonic, and related genres which were existed in 70s, like space rock or jazz-rock, can not be called 'retro' anyway.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 29 2015 at 04:12
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

(...)

2) This is how the other major prog database - aka ProgGnosis - categorizes Talk Talk: http://www.proggnosis.com/ARTIST_Detail.aspx?AID=3681" rel="nofollow - http://www.proggnosis.com/ARTIST_Detail.aspx?AID=3681 Perhaps those who object to the Crossover Prog subgenre will find "Prog Pop" more to their taste. Moreover, to debunk the myth that PA is the only place where Spirit of Eden is labeled as prog, here's what the ProgGnosis review says: http://www.proggnosis.com/Release_Detail.aspx?RID=9980" rel="nofollow - http://www.proggnosis.com/Release_Detail.aspx?RID=9980


I think that everybody should see what "the other major prog database" ProgGnosis' only one review of Spirit of Eden actually says, but bolded, 'cause many guys and gals never clicked at the links as some don't have enough time for surfing, some are too lazy to do it and some doesn't care about this matter at all.
 
In the first sentence of that only one review, Marc wrote this:
 
Quote "Talk Talk turn full Prog in this album. (...)
 
This is the crucial evidence that "Marc" has no idea about Prog Rock.
Marc The Reviewer actually thinks that every experimental and ambiental album is - prog. And therefore it is futile to any further discussion whether Marc knows what is art rock, although the most noticeable difference between prog and art rock is the manner of singing (e.g. due to the manner of singing, The Beatles' A Day In The Life  is art rock song, not prog, although the song is quite experimental).
But, to catch up on the huge ignorance as "Marc's review at the other major prog database" really is, and to use that for writing a revised history of our beloved genre, that is something very bad.
 
 
 


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 29 2015 at 04:26
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


In the first sentence of that only one review, Marc wrote this:
 
Quote "Talk Talk turn full Prog in this album. (...)
 
This is the crucial evidence that "Marc" has no idea about Prog Rock.
Marc The Reviewer actually thinks that every exprerimental and ambiental album is - prog.
My guess is that "Marc" simply uses the term Prog in an other way than you do - meaning Talk Talk went (full) progressive with Spirit of Eden. Post Rock, Art Rock... bands such as Radiohead, Tortoise etc... fit in at PA as its all modern Progressive Rock while Prog usually means something more specific, based on an approach developed in the late 60's-early 70's. But I'm not going to claim that someone has no clue based on using those terms a little different than I do.


-------------


Posted By: Skalla-Grim
Date Posted: September 29 2015 at 05:58
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Skalla-Grim Skalla-Grim wrote:

Doesn't matter because I can't vote for Koenjihyakkei. No vote
in a knock-out tournament final you don't get to vote on an album that has already been knocked out. Sorry, but life's like that.


I'm well aware of that and I'm not arguing against it. Still it doesn't matter for me who wins. Both are good in their own way.


Posted By: Skalla-Grim
Date Posted: September 29 2015 at 06:08
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

in a knock-out tournament final you don't get to vote on an album that has already been knocked out. Sorry, but life's like that.


I'm well aware of that, just wanted to express my personal view on that final.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 29 2015 at 06:17
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

So, cheers for the winner album sung in the native language of such a great prog rock band Änglagård Beer
 

Hmm, the "winner album" is losing at the moment.



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