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What are the benefits of living in the USA?

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Topic: What are the benefits of living in the USA?
Posted By: condor
Subject: What are the benefits of living in the USA?
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 12:37
..compared to living in the UK?



Replies:
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 13:02
Originally posted by condor condor wrote:


..compared to living in the UK?


I suspect the answer to that question is only for those who have lived in both. I have never lived in the land of the free, so cannot really answer.

Wales is nice this time of year, though

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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org


Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 13:08
There are other countries in the world too, you knowWink.. Unfortunately, my experience in the US so far has been disastrous (with very few exceptions), so I wouldn't be the best-qualified person to answer.


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 13:09
The United States has a diversity of flora and fauna. The United States has a diversity of landforms.


Posted By: condor
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 13:12
Wales is in the UK.
It's strange but less than half of all American's own a passport but that doesn't stop them proclaiming America to be the greatest nation on earth. How do they know without having visited other countries?


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 13:38
Americans are no different than anyone else. I think most people living 
in modern countries think that theirs is the best place to live.


Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 13:51
Not having to deal with basic media-peddled European criticisms of America on a daily basis. Tongue

(disclaimer: I have never claimed America to be the greatest nation on Earth, and the idea of a greatest nation is one I regard with the highest indifference). 


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https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 13:54
And then he shouted back towards Patrice "that gorge runs both ways!


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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 14:34
Haven't we done this?



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 15:31


The U.S. is the greatest, best country God has ever given man on the face of the earth.

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/mr1053/the-colbert-report-sean-hannity-loves-america



Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 15:33
Tommy Wiseau loves America way more, therefore it is better.


Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 21:23
Being the best, obviously. 

Peasants. 


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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 22:11
Cost of living is generally cheaper in the USA if you have a job with health insurance. The weather is typically warmer and drier. If you like sports you can pretty much watch it all day. There is lots of wide open space to get away to quite easily. There is spectacular geography. The variety of beer is better these days. If you live on the east coast as I do the music scene is excellent. 

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 09:59
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by condor condor wrote:


..compared to living in the UK?


I suspect the answer to that question is only for those who have lived in both. I have never lived in the land of the free, so cannot really answer.

Wales is nice this time of year, though


If you listen quite quietly you can hear them shooting from grave to grave... - XTC


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 11:25
Never lived in or visited the UK so I can only talk about the US.
There are some great geographical features here; mountain ranges, deserts, valleys, beaches, lakes and rivers, the Great Plains, forests, the Everglades, etc.
My problem with the US is overpopulation. While there are hundreds of thousands of square miles of open spaces 39% of the US population live in less than 10% of the land area.
This 10% land area are the counties along the coastlines. 
One statistic I read recently is that 50% of the US population lives within one hundred miles of the coast.
Closer to home for me is the fact that the population of Los Angeles County recently topped ten million and is now the most populated county in the country.
That number is expected to be twelve million by 2030.


Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 11:27
Guns.  Better booze.  More variety in climate and geography.  No Piers Morgan.  No Rotherham.


Posted By: JD
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 12:10
^ You're of course talking about our great nation here right? The fact we have GUN controls, way better booze, The most varied climate and geography, no Piers Morgan. But as far as Rotherham goes, we did have residential schools and that is just as bad a scandal as any. I doubt any nation doesn't have it's black hour. That being said... Canada is THE place to live. Oh, and politically...them US politicians are CRAY CRAY !!!! Ours are mostly just @ssholes.


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Thank you for supporting independently produced music


Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 12:16
A more important question: What are the benefits of living?

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"Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl."


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 14:16
Does America have benefits? That sounds a bit communist to me. Tongue

I have been offered a couple of jobs in the USA and did seriously consider moving there but decided not to for family reasons. During the times that I have worked there for short periods (never longer than three weeks at a time) the one thing that I found I could not cope with was the food... it was so boring - everything seems to be either fried or grilled, everything is served with fries and the portion sizes are ridiculous - of course that would be different if I was living there permanently as I would be cooking for myself. If there was one thing that would put me off it would be the inherently ingrained gun-culture, as this makes no sense to me. During my last visit someone said to me: "You Brits, you're not allowed to own guns right?"... to which I replied "Well no that's not right, we're allowed to own guns, we're just not permitted to carry them everywhere we go."


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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 14:49
I don't see why anyone would leave England for the US unless they'd been born here or had very strong ties or something.  That said, I don't see why any American would move permanently to England except for the same reasons.  Both great places, generally perfect weather (hey I like overcast and gloomy), friendly people and both peoples share a love of humor and good music.  The food?  Largely regional but it's funny how Dean thinks UK food is better.  He's mostly right of course though that used to be reversed.  Home is truly where the heart is.

As for guns, the only theory I've been able to muster is that the notion of independence became so ingrained and pathologic that being armed went without saying.  If I lived in the countryside I'd completely understand that... it's the city boys that seem to misunderstand what guns are meant for.




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 14:53
Most prisoners per capita, no punks on the horizon.

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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 15:10
Dean, there is good food, you just have to know where to find it.  But yes there is a lot of crap food too, no argument there..

I love the heartland exurbs and rural US, I could never live on the coasts or big cities.  The only place abroad i might fancy are rural Scandinavian places.  Or a nice rural Italian Villa. Wink  Then again I could never afford one.  So I'll be sticking with Minn. 


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Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 17:10
Guns, food and booze. That's interesting.

The gun control controversy will go on in this country forever. There are too many things to consider.
Demanding more guns laws is ridiculous since there are already hundreds (technically thousands) of
gun laws on the books.
None of these existing laws matter to criminals and gang bangers who don't care about laws.
Putting new restrictions on law abiding gun owners does little or no good at all.
Then, there's the mentally ill issue. 
No one knows when a mentally ill person or a ticking time bomb is going to snap. No one.
Also, no one knows what that person will do when they snap.
They may grab a gun or they may drive their car into a crowd of people. No one knows.

As far as food and booze? Well, you have to eat and to quote Zappa, "America Drinks & Goes Home".


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 17:15
Background checks and limits on military grade weapons would be a nice start but the NRA has too many politicians in their pockets.

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 17:31
^ But military style weps are no different than any other 'automatic weapon'; bullets are bullets, what's the point in restricting, or even God forbid, outlawing an M-16 when you can just as easily fire multiple shots from a revolver?

Hey man, should we restrict knives and hammers and baseball bats too?   Blasphemy!!

 
      Wink




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 17:53
^^ I am strongly in favor of background checks and waiting periods before the buyer can take possession of the firearm. 
One thing that needs to be addressed is private sales at gun shows where there is no background check and the buyer takes immediate possession of the firearm. This should not be allowed to happen.

As far as military grade weapons, it is illegal for a private citizen to own a fully automatic weapon.
This law goes back to the "tommy gun" gangster days in the thirties.
The "assault rifles" that you see in gun shops just look military or tactical but they do not function any differently than a standard rifle.



Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 18:42
I live in Michigan. We've got lakes bigger than Britain. LOL

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 18:47
This is true!


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 19:46
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I live in Michigan. We've got lakes bigger than Britain. LOL
We had Michigan. Tongue


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What?


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 19:52
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Dean, there is good food, you just have to know where to find it.  But yes there is a lot of crap food too, no argument there..
The challenge is not finding good food (until my last visit that was relatively easy), the challenge was finding food that wasn't fried or grilled. Admittedly I was in Texas when I threw down that challenge to my work colleagues and the best they could come up with was pizza.


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What?


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 20:00
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I live in Michigan. We've got lakes bigger than Britain. LOL
We had Michigan. Tongue
Giggling animated emoticon



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 20:00
Plenty of good non fried/grilled food on the east coast. I do like living by the ocean in a compact city, Boston

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Cailyn
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 20:10
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

^ You're of course talking about our great nation here right? The fact we have GUN controls, way better booze, The most varied climate and geography, no Piers Morgan. But as far as Rotherham goes, we did have residential schools and that is just as bad a scandal as any. I doubt any nation doesn't have it's black hour. That being said... Canada is THE place to live. Oh, and politically...them US politicians are CRAY CRAY !!!! Ours are mostly just @ssholes.


Good grief, who let the bloody Canucks in here? Shocked

This was a discussion re UK vs US, not the wannabees north of the 49th parallel LOL

There is no reasonable answer to this question.  I have lived in both countries (12 years in the UK) and I love them both for different reasons.  While the US may have more varied landforms due to the size difference, I think most Americans would be amazed at the varied terrain in the UK from the Fens and lovely Kent to Cornwall, Wales, the Lake Country, and Scotland.  There are wonderful people and insufferable a****les in both places....

While I once believed that the US was more a land of opportunity than the UK (one of the reasons I returned to the US), I don't feel that is true any longer (for many reasons).  I do find Yankee nationalism (the US is the best Ermm ) insufferable and the gun thing is a mess (I am a gun owner).  Really though, it's a wash.  Where you're born and live early on, where your family is -- these are the things that influence people most often I think.

Arguing about it?  Pointless.


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http://www.cailynmusic.com


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 20:15
I'm not fully aware of the benefits as such, but the handful of times I've visited The States (mainly East Coast), I could well be content living in Montauk, just me, my Prog collection (and a Nympho ). Better there, than here.......


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 20:24
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Plenty of good non fried/grilled food on the east coast. I do like living by the ocean in a compact city, Boston

One of the cities I must visit someday.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 20:32
I was in Boston several years ago when the city was being renovated.
I think it was referred to as The Dig.
We were there to take the Sam Adams brewery tour which was very interesting.
We sampled several products that day.  Wacko


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 20:41
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Plenty of good non fried/grilled food on the east coast. I do like living by the ocean in a compact city, Boston

One of the cities I must visit someday.

My thoughts exactly. I knew that New England was famed for its baking but (naively perhaps) assumed this was only for sweet dishes... but of course there's Boston baked beans (though a tad too sweet for me, I prefer a nice French cassoulet with pork, confit duck and sausage)


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What?


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 20:47
Unsurprisingly there is lots of good seafood in Boston, plus we have a good Chinatown, a large Italian district, good German food, and lots of Irish bars. The city center can be walked across in 30 minutes and has that lovely higgledy piggedly street patterns from pre industry that you don't see in a lot of US cities.

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 20:49
FWIW, I can't recall ever seeing anyone outside the police or military carrying a gun in public.  Perhaps I live a sheltered life.


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--
Frank Swarbrick
Belief is not Truth.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 21:05
^ No you just don't live in Texas or Arizona.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 21:08
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Plenty of good non fried/grilled food on the east coast. I do like living by the ocean in a compact city, Boston

One of the cities I must visit someday.
My thoughts exactly. I knew that New England was famed for its baking but (naively perhaps) assumed this was only for sweet dishes... but of course there's Boston baked beans (though a tad too sweet for me, I prefer a nice French cassoulet with pork, confit duck and sausage

Never thought of it as an eating city but I suppose it is.   N'awlins is where I'd like to take an eating tour, the whole south actually; Memphis, Atlanta, Dallas



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 21:12
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Dean, there is good food, you just have to know where to find it.  But yes there is a lot of crap food too, no argument there..
The challenge is not finding good food (until my last visit that was relatively easy), the challenge was finding food that wasn't fried or grilled. Admittedly I was in Texas when I threw down that challenge to my work colleagues and the best they could come up with was pizza.
What other kind is there? Wink

It's bizarre that you could only find fried and grilled food, though of all the states, Texas would be the one. Near the coasts (including and especially the gulf coast), boiling is especially popular. Baked, sauteed, steamed, and roasted foods are very present as well. You're talking about the country that celebrates Thanksgiving, for which baked or roasted turkey, boiled mashed potatoes, and steamed corn and vegetables are traditional items.


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https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 21:14
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

Guns, food and booze. That's interesting.

The gun control controversy will go on in this country forever. There are too many things to consider.
Demanding more guns laws is ridiculous since there are already hundreds (technically thousands) of
gun laws on the books.
None of these existing laws matter to criminals and gang bangers who don't care about laws.
Putting new restrictions on law abiding gun owners does little or no good at all.
If I have learnt one thing in my seven years on this forum it is never to get involved in gun-control arguments with an American. Have guns and no controls or have technically thousands of gun laws it makes no difference to me, I live 5,000 miles away. The issue is not of controls or lack thereof but of culture, as that is what differentiates the USA from the rest of the western world it terms of gun ownership and the scary gun-death and other gun-related crime statistics you have, and in light of reaction to recent events I don't think that will ever change. 


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What?


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 21:20
^ Oh it'll change, just not for a very, very long time.   Amendments do happen, just not often.   There is an aversion in the US to being too civilized, too obsequious.   And to using words like 'obsequious'.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 21:21
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Dean, there is good food, you just have to know where to find it.  But yes there is a lot of crap food too, no argument there..
The challenge is not finding good food (until my last visit that was relatively easy), the challenge was finding food that wasn't fried or grilled. Admittedly I was in Texas when I threw down that challenge to my work colleagues and the best they could come up with was pizza.


Well if you'd been here tonight with Heather and I, the Thai we had would have knocked your socks off....no fry involved.  Last night I had a great beet salad with sauteed shrimp and tomorrow we may try a new Ethiopian place.  The food in the TCs is pretty fcking awesome mate.  Smile


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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 21:24
And there is this Indian place here that just slays me.....

Still your point remains valid.  A lot of restaurants in the States are just crap. 


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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 21:31
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Plenty of good non fried/grilled food on the east coast. I do like living by the ocean in a compact city, Boston

One of the cities I must visit someday.
My thoughts exactly. I knew that New England was famed for its baking but (naively perhaps) assumed this was only for sweet dishes... but of course there's Boston baked beans (though a tad too sweet for me, I prefer a nice French cassoulet with pork, confit duck and sausage

Never thought of it as an eating city but I suppose it is.   N'awlins is where I'd like to take an eating tour, the whole south actually; Memphis, Atlanta, Dallas



Oh N'awlins is a superb eating and drinking city.

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 21:52
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

What other kind is there? Wink

It's bizarre that you could only find fried and grilled food, though of all the states, Texas would be the one. Near the coasts (including and especially the gulf coast), boiling is especially popular. Baked, sauteed, steamed, and roasted foods are very present as well. You're talking about the country that celebrates Thanksgiving, for which baked or roasted turkey, boiled mashed potatoes, and steamed corn and vegetables are traditional items.
Do you have restaurants that serve roast diners 365 days a year? Wink 

I'm pleased to learn these alternative cooking methods exist in the USA and yep, Texas was not the best place to start looking, however I did have similar issues with the food in California (LA and SF). As I said if I were living in the USA permanently this wouldn't be a problem but when you are staying in a 3-star hotel and living out of a suitcase for three weeks solid then you can only eat in the restaurants in the locale where you're staying... and after two weeks of essentially eating fried/grilled/barbecued/stir-fried meals every day it all got a bit too much for my fay British constitution and I would have crawled across the desert for a steak and ale pie with boiled carrots and mashed potatoes (I don't like pasta so Italian is off the menu and I really don't like curry so that excludes Indian restaurants)

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:


Well if you'd been here tonight with Heather and I, the Thai we had would have knocked your socks off....no fry involved.  Last night I had a great beet salad with sauteed shrimp and tomorrow we may try a new Ethiopian place.  The food in the TCs is pretty fcking awesome mate.  Smile
Thai is usually stir-fried then sauced-up coconut milk and sauté means quickly frying in hot fat, but I know what you mean. 

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:


Never thought of it as an eating city but I suppose it is.   N'awlins is where I'd like to take an eating tour, the whole south actually; Memphis, Atlanta, Dallas
 

Oh N'awlins is a superb eating and drinking city.
New Orleans...now you're talking. Having read Poppy Z Brite's Liquor series of novels set in the New Orleans restaurant scene that quickly went on my bucket list.




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What?


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 21:54
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I would have crawled across the desert for a steak and ale pie with boiled carrots and mashed potatoes

The simple comforts of home.  I think there was a time when many Americans ate just like that.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 21:58
It was bun not stir fry....but maybe that's Vietnamese.  this place does multi Asian cuisines.  I love bun, no pun intendedTongue


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 22:03
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

It was bun not stir fry....but maybe that's Vietnamese.  this place does multi Asian cuisines.  I love bun, no pun intendedTongue
By 'bun' do you mean like char sui bao? Steamed bread rolls filled with barbecued meats?

Or do you mean dim sum?




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What?


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 22:09
http://lowfatveganchef.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/BunChayVermicelli-2.jpg




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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 22:09
Having grown up in SF, the bun, or "pork bow" as it's called on the westcoast, was a childhood favorite but became cloyingly sweet to me.  Or maybe the quality just went south.  The only city I know left that has truly good Chinese food is NYC.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 22:13
Ah... noodles and salad. Yeah, that's Vietnamese not Thai.

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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 22:16
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Having grown up in SF, the bun, or "pork bow" as it's called on the westcoast, was a childhood favorite but became cloyingly sweet to me.  Or maybe the quality just went south.  The only city I know left that has truly good Chinese food is NYC.

Yeah, some times they can be overly sweet. Chinatown in London's Soho produces some fine char sui street food.


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What?


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 22:17
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Plenty of good non fried/grilled food on the east coast. I do like living by the ocean in a compact city, Boston

One of the cities I must visit someday.
My thoughts exactly. I knew that New England was famed for its baking but (naively perhaps) assumed this was only for sweet dishes... but of course there's Boston baked beans (though a tad too sweet for me, I prefer a nice French cassoulet with pork, confit duck and sausage

Never thought of it as an eating city but I suppose it is.   N'awlins is where I'd like to take an eating tour, the whole south actually; Memphis, Atlanta, Dallas

If the benefits are about cuisine, count me in for Nawlins !! Can't wait to get back there.......
Although, never one for the city life, but as the overly 'hip' crowd attest to - I New York.........


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 22:40
The only problem with New Orleans was getting propositioned to go into a strip club at 10 in the morning when I was with my wife and her friend.

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 10 2015 at 22:50
You get that..........but only on Bourbon St.


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 17:32
We grew up in the 60s and 70s somewhat immersed in "gun culture".  We all played with toy guns.  Our Dads and all of our uncles hunted, we learned to hunt, we were taught respect for weapons and each other.  According to http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/03/10/households_with_guns_declines_since_1970s.html" rel="nofollow - Slate , not right wing by any means, higher percentage of households owned guns in my childhood 1970s than now despite handgun proliferation in our cities.  They were all around me.... And yet we never shot anyone.  We did not see this craziness going on.  I think to blame recent events on inanimate objects is going to simply delay getting to the real reason some young people come of age able to commit such vile acts.  My cousin and I could walk down our street with a gun, toy, bb, or 22,  and nobody would even bat an eye....why?......because back then it was so incredibly unthinkable that we would be off to commit violence.  Today you can get in trouble for pointing your finger at someone in school.  And yet look at the irony of the result on the front pages. 

I have no problem with more restrictions on sales but that does nothing to fix broken minds capable of harming others with the complete lack of feeling we see these days..  In my lifetime we have moved from families completely capable of owning guns responsibly (Sorry, but I saw it with me own eyes in almost every family I knew) to this madness, all while the media pretends families and neighborhoods like mine apparently never existed.  That is not the result of any "gun culture" that existed in my father's day.  It is the result of this broken culture spawning sociopaths.  Just my opinion but I would be curious to know if anyone out there agrees with me.  That broken minds are more the problem than inanimate objects.

By the way I consider myself a moderate....and I realize that by PA standards that makes me a slobbering right winger.  But I am not a gun "enthusiast" or ideologue.  I don't mind restrictions and I don't mind if you wish to disarm criminals and ban assault weapons.  Go for it.  But I still wonder what are the unspoken changes that make today so different from what my friends and I experienced growing up.  And I wish we could start having that conversation in our politics rather than the useless one we are having. 


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 18:37
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

We grew up in the 60s and 70s somewhat immersed in "gun culture".  We all played with toy guns.  Our Dads and all of our uncles hunted, we learned to hunt, we were taught respect for weapons and each other.  According to http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/03/10/households_with_guns_declines_since_1970s.html" rel="nofollow - Slate , not right wing by any means, higher percentage of households owned guns in my childhood 1970s than now despite handgun proliferation in our cities.  They were all around me.... And yet we never shot anyone.  We did not see this craziness going on.  I think to blame recent events on inanimate objects is going to simply delay getting to the real reason some young people come of age able to commit such vile acts.  My cousin and I could walk down our street with a gun, toy, bb, or 22,  and nobody would even bat an eye....why?......because back then it was so incredibly unthinkable that we would be off to commit violence.  Today you can get in trouble for pointing your finger at someone in school.  And yet look at the irony of the result on the front pages. 

I have no problem with more restrictions on sales but that does nothing to fix broken minds capable of harming others with the complete lack of feeling we see these days..  In my lifetime we have moved from families completely capable of owning guns responsibly (Sorry, but I saw it with me own eyes in almost every family I knew) to this madness, all while the media pretends families and neighborhoods like mine apparently never existed.  That is not the result of any "gun culture" that existed in my father's day.  It is the result of this broken culture spawning sociopaths.  Just my opinion but I would be curious to know if anyone out there agrees with me.  That broken minds are more the problem than inanimate objects.

By the way I consider myself a moderate....and I realize that by PA standards that makes me a slobbering right winger.  But I am not a gun "enthusiast" or ideologue.  I don't mind restrictions and I don't mind if you wish to disarm criminals and ban assault weapons.  Go for it.  But I still wonder what are the unspoken changes that make today so different from what my friends and I experienced growing up.  And I wish we could start having that conversation in our politics rather than the useless one we are having. 
To be honest Jim, there aren't any other than your perception of how it was back then if this giraffe is anything to go by:




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What?


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 18:42
^ Where's the rest of that graph?--  if we're still near 1966 levels of gun deaths, that ain't bad, certainly better than what the news would have us believe.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 18:52
Well I'm telling you something is very different.  We did not have mass casualty events like this.  If you want to call it my perception, fine.  I was there and I'm not alone in what I recall.  Such acts as we see today were so rare that the very notion would have had people looking at you like a space alien.  I can't believe others, even here, didn't have the same experience i did.  No offense but your numbers are not telling the whole story, nor the most important part of the story.  Other kinds of homicides certainly happened but it was not this kind of violence and that is my point.  Guns can and were safely used and respected by the families I grew up with. 


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Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 19:15
I will go along with Finnforest but I'm older and go a little further back.
In the fifties I was a kid in the Midwest and it was common for every household (that I knew of)
to have a rifle or shotgun.
My Dad had the shotgun that belonged to his Dad and when I was seven I would play with it 
outside (unloaded of course and we lived on six acres). 
Now, this wasn't Mayberry, RFD and there was crime and there were occasional murders but
seldom, if ever, with multiple victims and never anything like the mass killings today.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 19:24
Wow six acres, the maintenance must've been huge.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 19:29
^  We only had grass around the house, The other half of the front of the property was
a large vegetable garden. behind the house was the garage and my Mom's chicken pen.
The back acres were open field where I used to play for hours.
Looking back, it was a very good time and place.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 19:31
I see, like a little wilderness.  Nice.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 19:31
We had about that much behind us too although my family didn't own it.  God it was paradise to grow up with large swaths of undeveloped land around you....and still be near "the city". 

In my case it was not "maintained" land, it was an adventure. Smile


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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 19:34
I feel the same about crime stats in general in this area.  They tell you crime is down, you are much safer now than in the past.  I do not buy it based on my experience.  We were able to play and hang out well after dark in same areas that you would be insane to let your kids today do the same.  We were able to leave our doors unlocked and we often did, which you would be fool to do today.  And yet the news reports keep saying....you are safer now, crime is down.  Not always do these numbers reflect practical reality.  And if people believe them as they are being administered, I guess I can see why people erroneously blame guns for our US sociopath problem. But I cannot because of what I lived through.  Other factors, way more than "the gun debate" I see out there.




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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 19:37
Well I will say that home burglaries are down big time in the area I live as compared with say thirty years ago.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 19:40
I guess that's a part of the numbers thing....different places having different results....you are urban area David?  SF?


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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 19:43
Gary what part of the MW were you?  I grew up in suburban twin cities


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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 19:45
^^ Yep, and it's a fairly tough town despite the hippie image.  We had break-ins regularly all across the city up til about 1990.


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 19:48
I was there in the 90s investigating the Haight and GG park.  Great time.  There were some fairly aggressive panhandlers and one insane dude we ran into by GG park, but all in all, a blast


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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 20:00
Yeah as long as you know how to be in a city it's fine.  I probably know the insane dude.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 20:08
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Yeah as long as you know how to be in a city it's fine.  I probably know the insane dude.



How do you deal with someone who moves in front of your vehicle and won't leave?  Is there a recommended course of action?LOL

The Dude....I was in the McDonalds bathroom on the east side of the park I think.  This guy walks in and tells me to just shut up and mind my own business....i hadn't said anything.....he goes into every stall and grabs all the toilet paper, comes out, grabs the paper towels and tries the soap dispenser but couldn't break it, jamming it all into his coat....and as he walks out he just says....."stay here or I'll f-ck you up". .


Alright then sir, have a great day!LOL


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Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 20:10
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Gary what part of the MW were you?  I grew up in suburban twin cities

I was born in Springfield, Missouri and moved to California when I was seven.


Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 20:11
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

I will go along with Finnforest but I'm older and go a little further back.
In the fifties I was a kid in the Midwest and it was common for every household (that I knew of)
to have a rifle or shotgun.
My Dad had the shotgun that belonged to his Dad and when I was seven I would play with it 
outside (unloaded of course and we lived on six acres). 
Now, this wasn't Mayberry, RFD and there was crime and there were occasional murders but
seldom, if ever, with multiple victims and never anything like the mass killings today.

I grew up (and still live in) similar conditions here. 10 acres in the middle of nowhere, rarely any break-ins or murders (although they do happen).


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 20:19
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

We had about that much behind us too although my family didn't own it.  God it was paradise to grow up with large swaths of undeveloped land around you....and still be near "the city". 

In my case it was not "maintained" land, it was an adventure. Smile

We were still within the city limits (barely) and the treat was to go uptown on Saturday.
Springfield had a town square very similar to Back To The Future. There were big trees
and park benches in the center with stores on all four sides.

We didn't own the land either. It belonged to my aunt and uncle who had moved to St. Louis.


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 20:20
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Gary what part of the MW were you?  I grew up in suburban twin cities

I was born in Springfield, Missouri and moved to California when I was seven.


Never been to Missouri but many times to CA.  Love LA, been to SF, Sequoia, Eureka, Crescent City, SD, Monterey, Orange county....


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Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 20:22
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

I will go along with Finnforest but I'm older and go a little further back.
In the fifties I was a kid in the Midwest and it was common for every household (that I knew of)
to have a rifle or shotgun.
My Dad had the shotgun that belonged to his Dad and when I was seven I would play with it 
outside (unloaded of course and we lived on six acres). 
Now, this wasn't Mayberry, RFD and there was crime and there were occasional murders but
seldom, if ever, with multiple victims and never anything like the mass killings today.

I grew up (and still live in) similar conditions here. 10 acres in the middle of nowhere, rarely any break-ins or murders (although they do happen).

I envy you. I said earlier that if all of my family wasn't here I would move someplace more rural.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 20:27
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Yeah as long as you know how to be in a city it's fine.  I probably know the insane dude.
How do you deal with someone who moves in front of your vehicle and won't leave?  Is there a recommended course of action?LOL

The Dude....I was in the McDonalds bathroom on the east side of the park I think.  This guy walks in and tells me to just shut up and mind my own business....i hadn't said anything.....he goes into every stall and grabs all the toilet paper, comes out, grabs the paper towels and tries the soap dispenser but couldn't break it, jamming it all into his coat....and as he walks out he just says....."stay here or I'll f-ck you up". .

Alright then sir, have a great day!LOL

LOL  That MickyDs is notorious.  But Amoeba Records is right there so it's worth it  LOL




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 20:28
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Gary what part of the MW were you?  I grew up in suburban twin cities

I was born in Springfield, Missouri and moved to California when I was seven.


Never been to Missouri but many times to CA.  Love LA, been to SF, Sequoia, Eureka, Crescent City, SD, Monterey, Orange county....

I live a few miles north of Orange County and I've in this area since 1957.
A lot more people and cars now though.


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 20:44
Yes I could tell quite a difference in the area since my first visit in the 70s to today.  Still, such a beautiful city.  LA has such a vibe.  I know so many people who prefer SD, but I really don't.


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Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 20:45
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

What other kind is there? Wink

It's bizarre that you could only find fried and grilled food, though of all the states, Texas would be the one. Near the coasts (including and especially the gulf coast), boiling is especially popular. Baked, sauteed, steamed, and roasted foods are very present as well. You're talking about the country that celebrates Thanksgiving, for which baked or roasted turkey, boiled mashed potatoes, and steamed corn and vegetables are traditional items.
Do you have restaurants that serve roast diners 365 days a year? Wink 

I'm pleased to learn these alternative cooking methods exist in the USA and yep, Texas was not the best place to start looking, however I did have similar issues with the food in California (LA and SF). As I said if I were living in the USA permanently this wouldn't be a problem but when you are staying in a 3-star hotel and living out of a suitcase for three weeks solid then you can only eat in the restaurants in the locale where you're staying... and after two weeks of essentially eating fried/grilled/barbecued/stir-fried meals every day it all got a bit too much for my fay British constitution and I would have crawled across the desert for a steak and ale pie with boiled carrots and mashed potatoes (I don't like pasta so Italian is off the menu and I really don't like curry so that excludes Indian restaurants)
It is true that the cheapest restaurants are mostly fried and grilled. Walmart has roast dinners, as a constant throughout the US. Red lobster (I think), as well. I could name a few local restaurants, as well, but they probably wouldn't ring any bells.

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https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music


Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 21:44
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

I will go along with Finnforest but I'm older and go a little further back.
In the fifties I was a kid in the Midwest and it was common for every household (that I knew of)
to have a rifle or shotgun.
My Dad had the shotgun that belonged to his Dad and when I was seven I would play with it 
outside (unloaded of course and we lived on six acres). 
Now, this wasn't Mayberry, RFD and there was crime and there were occasional murders but
seldom, if ever, with multiple victims and never anything like the mass killings today.

I grew up (and still live in) similar conditions here. 10 acres in the middle of nowhere, rarely any break-ins or murders (although they do happen).

I envy you. I said earlier that if all of my family wasn't here I would move someplace more rural.

It's definitely nice in a lot of ways, although you give up the comfort of being near things.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 22:05
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Well I'm telling you something is very different.  We did not have mass casualty events like this.  If you want to call it my perception, fine.  I was there and I'm not alone in what I recall.  Such acts as we see today were so rare that the very notion would have had people looking at you like a space alien.  I can't believe others, even here, didn't have the same experience i did.  No offense but your numbers are not telling the whole story, nor the most important part of the story.  Other kinds of homicides certainly happened but it was not this kind of violence and that is my point.
You betcha those numbers I found in a simple google search didn't tell the whole story, because the whole story is much worse:

While the frequency of (school) rampage killings in the USA was lower in the 60s and 70s,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_%28school_massacres%29" rel="nofollow - they did happen : 60s (2 events: 20 dead, 34 injured), 70s (3 events: 7 dead, 25 injured), 80s (4 events:15 dead, 55 injured), 90s (10 events: 47 dead, 98 injured), 00s (8 events: 63 dead, 65 injured) and 10s (8 events:64 dead, 36 injured) ... compare that total (36 events, 214 dead, 305 injured) to the UK were we have witnessed only one such event (17 dead, 15 injured) in that entire time period. These figures do not include those events that happened in the workplace or in other public places (for that the total for the UK rises to 5 compared to 136 in the USA). 

However, on average these figures account for only 1% of the total number of gun-related deaths in the USA - half of all murders are firearm related compared to a tenth in the UK. And yes the UK is a violent place but we didn't just swap guns for knives as some pro-gun lobbyists would have you believe, we have around 700 murders a year for a population of 64 million, yet the USA has over 20 times that number for only five times the population. 

Something is very wrong. If you don't think it is gun ownership & controls then what the hell is it and why isn't anybody doing anything about it?
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Guns can and were safely used and respected by the families I grew up with. 
And in mine, my grandfather, dad and I all owned guns (shot guns, air rifles and air pistols), my uncle was president of a (police) gun club and his house was a veritable arsenal of firearms of every description (including a pair of revolvers kept in a glass display case in his living room). My father-in-law and brother-in-law owned shot guns and were regularly involved in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheasant_shooting" rel="nofollow - pheasant shoots . Owning a gun in rural areas was practically the norm back then. And yep, none of us felt the urge to run amok in the local school, college, shopping mall or cinema either.


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What?


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 22:11
So you found 5 events in the 60s/70s in the entire US.  We've had that many this year, I believe.  I'd say something has definitely changed besides the gun. 


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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 22:14
And no, I don't think it is ownership to answer your direct question.  What is it?  Why is no one doing anything?  Those were my questions to you anyone who wanted to tackle it.  That's the point. 


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 22:24
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

So you found 5 events in the 60s/70s in the entire US.  We've had that many this year, I believe.  I'd say something has definitely changed besides the gun. 
Five events in twenty years does not count as the rare event you recalled it to be. One event in fifty-five years is one too many. Sure something has changed, so something must change to counter it. In the long term that means resolving whatever are the root causes (and I suspect they are many), but bearing in mind that school massacres are only 36 out of 136 such rampage killings the obvious common factor is the weaponry used and ease in which the perpetrators can obtain them. 


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What?


Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: October 11 2015 at 22:29
Rural Canadian prairies, everybody still has a gun and gun violence is still unheard of.  There are a lot of differences between the rural and urban areas, unfortunately.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 01:23
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

So you found 5 events in the 60s/70s in the entire US.  We've had that many this year, I believe.  I'd say something has definitely changed besides the gun. 
Five events in twenty years does not count as the rare event you recalled it to be. One event in fifty-five years is one too many. Sure something has changed, so something must change to counter it. In the long term that means resolving whatever are the root causes (and I suspect they are many), but bearing in mind that school massacres are only 36 out of 136 such rampage killings the obvious common factor is the weaponry used and ease in which the perpetrators can obtain them. 

There other commons like it's always men in their 20s or 30s.

It is all deeply troubling and inexplicable, makes one tend toward buying mind control conspiracy theories.




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 09:56
Children solving problems with guns has become the norm. Mental health plays a big role in each and every one of these shootings. Guns are not the root cause of these shootings. 


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 10:18
Graceland
Jazz
Grand Canyon
Rattlesnakes


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 10:20
Clap

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What?


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 10:37
I'm not sure Rattlesnakes are a benefit.
Pros
Craft beer
National parks
Jazz
Food

Antis
Politics
Religion
Guns
Country Music

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 11:37
- no smoking in restaurants, elevators, hotels, busses, cabs, subways, pretty much anyplace other human beings might be inclined to breathe.  Most European countries I've been to seem more like the U.S. thirty years ago as far as maturity of public health policies, especially as regards smoking.

- elbow room.  Maybe not in NYC or LA, but pretty much everywhere else.

- roads and garages big enough for the cars that use them. 
 
- being able to drive just about anywhere I want without paying a toll (granted, this is less viable in the Northeast).
 
- air conditioning.
 
- water (and other drinks) with ice in them at restaurants.
 
- diversity.  Other countries may talk a good game but we've been all-in since day one, and have more countries and cultures represented among our citizenship than anywhere else on the planet. 
 
- Fahrenheit, pounds, miles, gallons and acres.  Screw being like everyone else.
 


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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."

Albert Camus


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 11:44
We do have this





Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 11:49
^ I think that pretty much settles it!

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 12:24
Unfortunately, my experience here in the US has been nothing short of soul-crushing. I came here almost seven years ago, full of hope, and now I feel like a shadow of my former self. I'll spare you the details because I don't want to offend any of you who love your country. I tried to go back home on numerous occasions, but it wasn't feasible for a number of reasons, and now I believe I will never be able to return.




Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 12:25
There are many benefits in a global sense, but honestly sometimes it's very brutal and not terribly great. 
I am of course grateful to live in a well off, developed country but there are more of those than just the US (though some dont seem to know thisLOL)

Many of my non American friends, including on this forum, have often blasted the huge amount of wealth the US owns, but I always was quick to point out most of that was owned by relatively few, and in fact the middle class here gets worse off each year. 
No one really took it seriously pre 2009 but now at least such things have become mainstream discussion. 


And ya know, we have the $1 trillion in student debt, young people graduating into difficult markets with 10, 20, 30 thousand dollars in debt. 





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