The Renaissance Zone
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=105220
Printed Date: April 26 2024 at 00:14
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Topic: The Renaissance Zone
Posted By: rogerthat
Subject: The Renaissance Zone
Date Posted: December 17 2015 at 10:10
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There have been appreciation threads for Renaissance before, with most eventually dying a 'natural death'. But how about one place to post all things related to Renaissance - could be news of upcoming releases, touring dates, or general chat/discussion about the band. Consolidating it in other thread will be to the benefit of all interested members. So, in that spirit, new DVD expected, taken from their concert at The Union Chapel, London earlier this year. http://renaissancetouring.com/2015/11/renaissance-live-at-union-chapel-dvd/ |
Replies:
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 07 2016 at 23:37
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just noticed this, yes I'm game! The preview of the live DVD sold me on buying it and helping them with their indie go go campaign. I only wish it was the same set they are playing in the US, which included Song for all Seasons, I guess instead of Running Hard. But at least they did Ashes are Burning. To me the best part of the preview is Annie's smile at the end of "Ashes". Pure joy for her and me!
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Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: January 08 2016 at 09:21
I heard this one yesterday  Lovely duet. Too bad they didn't use real piano on this album
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Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 08 2016 at 09:35
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it sounds like piano to me? the album is good, with a couple of great tracks. There's also one with Ian Anderson on flute, and a vocal duet with David Keyes the bassist, that is kind of a new style for them, almost like a tango
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Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: January 08 2016 at 09:40
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^ It sounds like digital piano, it doesn't have that grand piano sound of the classic albums. These tracks are nice too.
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Posted By: Rivertree
Date Posted: January 08 2016 at 14:46
I've seen them on the stage in the 70's, alongside with CAMEL ...simply amazing  Annie Haslam performing Mother Russia - fantastic! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Rivertree" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: January 08 2016 at 15:01
^ Wow! I bet it was  I regret I didn't see Camel two years ago, I hope they'll come back again. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 09 2016 at 04:12
Never knew about a double bill with Camel. Have heard they performed once with Gentle Giant, which is a pretty weird combination.
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Rivertree wrote:Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 09 2016 at 06:46
Reproducing this comment from the John Tout thread because I don't want to derail it, lol. Anyway, I think over emphasising Annie's five octave range in promotional material was a mistake. I mean, it may have been nice initially to get word out about the band but to do it even today is really not necessary. Because it gives the impression to listeners that she's all about range which isn't really the case. If I take Captive Heart for instance, she ascends quite dramatically yet smoothly and elegantly on "You've stored throughout the years". It is pretty hard to achieve that effect and that's technique, not range. Annie was and is very much on the money when it comes to the finer aspects of singing yet it's always the range that becomes the talking point. Plus her style is kind of restrained and minimalist so she doesn't use range in a way that would satisfy the desires of ermmm range masturbators.
 They could have just let the voice speak for itself because frankly in going through the tour brochures of various years in the 70s, I have found them to be written in a rather self-congratulatory tone. Of course, a brochure is going to say the band is awesome but there are ways to say it without sounding smug. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 10 2016 at 11:44
| They were never that big in Montreal in the 1970s, and, when they did get airplay, I don't remember the focus being on Annie's voice. The only songs I heard with any regularity were Mother Russia and, when Novella came out, "Midas Man". And I remember the announcer gushing over the depth of sound on "Midas Man", not even the voice. But I don't doubt the promotional material's emphasis on her voice. And you are right, 5 octaves is just 5 octaves, it's her technique and control that are so awe-inspiring. At the same time, there is just enough warmth to walk that fine line between operatic frigidity and sappy 1970s folk pop. Maybe that was why they never achieved mass appeal. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 11 2016 at 09:27
| They basically had a way of making it sound like what they were doing was dreadfully serious business. Annie had in fact referred to Novella as their attempt to make new classical music in an interview, ha ha ha. That's one heck of a stretch. A little bit of lightness, which they had in the beginning, would have gone a long way. And then when they rediscovered it with SFAS they tilted so far to the other extreme that the old loyal fans were horrified. I cannot really fathom what made them take that approach because their live act does seem to have been livelier than the promise. Idk, maybe that was the general way prog musicians talked at the time? Fripp is perpetually hyper-intellectual for another. I am sure it is all well meaning but sometimes it gets in the way of getting people to like the music. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 11 2016 at 12:51
| actually, I remember the Rolling Stone record guide in 1978 saying that the live album was notable for the relentless seriousness with which the band now takes itself. So that's consistent with what you are saying. I honestly don't remember reading any of that, having not bought the tour programmes if there were indeed any, and my only reading was reviews in a prog oriented french language magazine, in which I remember the opening lines for the Novella review as "Quelle belle disque" (what a beautiful album). So the mainstream probably resented the pretensions a lot more than the prog press. You know, to young musically uneducated fans like me, this was modern classical music in that it blended classical and rock in a more serious way than ELP or ELO for instance. Punk and new wave put an end to that seriousness once and for all, so even the bands that survived did so by producing accessible songs that didn't sound too highbrow, thinking Supertramp and Al Stewart for instance. "Northern Lights" was one such song, but sadly didn't give the band any momentum |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 11 2016 at 18:22
| I presume Rolling Stone was referring to LATC which seems to lack the usually relaxed ambience of their shows. Yeah, well, I can agree with the idea of Novella, esp Can You Hear Me as a serious blend of classical and rock/folk, but to call it classical outright was going a bit too far. It isn't even as classical as Gryphon, well at least Red Queen to Gryphon Three. There are plenty of such lofty statements from the band. In a 1978 interview, Camp declared they wanted to be the best live band on the scene. There was the Jilted John controversy too. They didn't do a whole lot to endear themselves to the media and it's the media which tells the younger generation which 70s albums to listen to. Renaissance albums weren't among them. No prog barring Floyd/Tull because prog is such a bad word now. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 11 2016 at 18:42
yup, Live at Carnegie Hall, which was the only live document for many years. It never bothered me that they were serious and ambitious; the flip side is that they might not have made it as far as they did without that ambition and drive. Maybe we would have never heard of them if they hadn't an arguably inflated ego.  They were swimming against the tide even when prog reigned supreme over the airwaves |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 11 2016 at 20:55
| Doesn't bother me either. Just saying that's not the kind of stuff the mainstream likes to hear. |
Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: January 12 2016 at 00:37
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Novella for myself is definitely their most "serious" record. Not a single track could be considered "positive" and the entire mood throughout is just brooding. I love the record but I know a lot of fans feel the 20 minute Can You Hear Me/The Sisters is just dreck. It's a grower, and I'd argue the hardest record from the 72-79 era to really get into maybe not counting Azure d'Or - I know that one took awhile to click for me. As for the "Renaissance is making classical music" comment, it's a stretch. I'd give that award to The Enid surely. ------------- 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 12 2016 at 09:17
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Oddly enough, Novella happens to be my second favourite after SFAS and if I take Cards through Novella to represent the archetypal Renaissance mk ii - grand, symphonic and also generally melancholic - then Novella is the one where this style is fully realised imo. Can You Hear Me is dragged down a bit by that three minute interlude which goes nowhere but otherwise it's an excellent composition. I used to find Sisters almost too melancholic to listen to - Annie just flat out wails on that song - but I've come to really love it. Really this may be the album of which I have the fewest complaints. Just lacks a little momentum, barring Touching Once but there is a nice consistency in style from track to track while each one still brings out a different shade of emotion. I think fans expected a fresh progression from Scheherazade and when it wasn't quite there on Novella, they got disappointed. Actually Dunford brought back guitars on Novella but it blended so well with the symphonic arrangements that perhaps it wasn't noticed. It did take quite a while for me to like this album too; wondering if there's anybody who liked it right off the bat. Yeah, how could I forget Enid! THE definition of classical prog.
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: January 12 2016 at 09:20
It annoys me that some journalists (and many other people) always seem to need signs that artists "don't take themselves seriously". I don't complain when such signs are there but this is not what makes music great. Live at Carnegie Hall is, as you rightly write, played seriously and with ambition, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. How seriously they took themselves as people is another matter that an interviewer may comment on, but nothing that affects the value of the music. That said, there is some lightness and humour on Live at Carnegie Hall if you look in the right places. (Don't like Novella much, though.) |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 12 2016 at 09:26
| I respect the earnestness and ambition on LATC but as I set out in a fair amount of detail in my own review, I don't consider it the best Renaissance live album. Fair enough that at the time - 70s - it was the only live album they released. But the band was fully capable of cutting loose a bit without diluting the emotions of the original tracks. They couldn't quite achieve that on LATC being perhaps a bit tight due to the occasion. I much prefer Albert Hall in spite of the rather excessive noodling on Ashes in that concert. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 12 2016 at 13:57
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now that there are so many Renaissance live albums from almost all eras, Carnegie is not as important as it was to us long time fans. And there is plenty of banter on those less formal live albums that suggests the band wasn't above lighter moments to go with their ambition. Re Novella, I first heard most of the tracks at a disappointing 1977 concert that I have spoken of before (they arrived very late, played for an hour and a quarter (of which over half was Novella), and didn't even do Ashes, which I didn't even know at the time). None of them really did it for me except maybe Midas Man. But after ASFAS I dove back into the catalog and now enjoy Novella more than Scheherazade. I would probably put it 4th behind ASFAS, TOTC and AAB.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 12 2016 at 18:16
| SFAS - Novella - Scheherazade/Ashes - Cards/Prologue for me. Cards was at one point my favourite. Boy, has it slid down the pecking order. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 12 2016 at 20:14
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interesting. Side 2 of cards is utter perfection to me. I love that Gothic feel in Black Flame and Cold is Being, and then Mother Russia, which is perhaps their greatest studio moment. Guess what their greatest live moment is? It has to do with the "windy city"
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 12 2016 at 21:13
| Ha ha, yup, Ashes are burning at Park West. Wonder if the Park West is still alive. I guess the Capitol, NJ is no more? |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 13 2016 at 08:40
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The Capitol was demolished in 1991, but the http://jamusa.com/park-west/about-park-west/" rel="nofollow - Park West is still a going concern |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 13 2016 at 09:01
| Ah, I wondered because they don't seem to perform at Park West anymore. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 13 2016 at 10:01
I am not sure how often they are going to Chicago anymore. Their tours have tended to be focused on the Northeast, a swath from Boston down to maybe as far south as DC. They want to travel more extensively in the US I think but probably they have been doing it all by car, which gets harder as you go west and south where interested parties may be fewer and farther between. edit: looks like the 2010 tour was the last time they were in Chicago, and it was at "Park West". It was with Steve Hackett. Interestingly, on that tour, they were generally special guests of Steve Hackett but at Park West they were co-headliners. They were also at Milwaukee and Cleveland, both midwestern cities, on that tour They have been to Florida a few times and also Atlanta, but nothing out west in US since they reformed and started touring |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: January 13 2016 at 13:31
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Saw them in Newark in August....lovely theater in a rough neighborhood (then again, what in working class northern Jersey isn't "rough" anymore). The band sounded great....well-rehearsed and out to prove they're still relevant. Of course, the death of John Tout took away from the soul of the band but didn't rob them of momentum and their signature sound. I hope this mini-renaissance continues.....Annie still has (most of) it! ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 13 2016 at 18:30
| I just checked out the performance of Captive Heart in the PA concert, 97. Tesar did a good job but took lots of short cuts, skipped a fair few notes in the intro. He is not far off on touch, which I'd have thought would have been more difficult to emulate, but kind of simplified it. There isn't any recorded live version of this track with JT playing on it. I don't know if they ever did perform it in the 70s; was always a bit awkward at the chorus where Annie harmonizes with Annie in the studio recording. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 13 2016 at 19:57
same thing with "Closer than Yesterday" from ASFAS. I don't know if they ever did it live. Likewise it doesn't appear that they ever did "Kindness and the End" or "She is Love". Considering that they tended to very heavily promote their current albums throughout the 1970s, it is surprising that only 5 of the 8 tracks appear to have been played live.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 13 2016 at 21:27
| Yeah, I guess there have never been requests to perform Closer than yesterday. Still surprising that they never performed it in the 70s. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 13 2016 at 22:15
I suppose it's possible that they did play it, but the Annie backing Annie would have been a challenge. I think it's a lovely song and, like the all music guy alluded to, it was appealing in ways that were mostly new for the group. I have read some comparisons to Abba. I actually quite like Abba TBH, but to me this doesn't sound like them. More like something Heart would have done as a ballad
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Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 00:16
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What is the Park West concert you speak of? I've got Carnegie and Dreams and Omens, plus two boots from 1976 and 1979 - John Tout actually uses a Mellotron in some spots on the latter recording. -------------
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Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 07:25
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Renaissance AND Curved Air in the same concert!!! My dream just come true!!! There is any good english soul that would give shelter to a desperate brazilian boy!?!?! ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 08:56
when and where is that happening?
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Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 08:59
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Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 09:00
is the video - it was a TV show on a local Chicago station There is also a CD Live in Chicago 1983 According to rogerthat, a DVD was released in Japan There is some debate as to whether they did the whole of Ashes are Burning or just the end part. The concert was only 40 mins so maybe they did the whole thing plus other tracks, or maybe the concert had a series of local bands doing a 40 minute spot. To me this is the best vocal on the closing to Ashes. There is New Jersey one that may rival it in histrionics but with this one you can see Annie in action. |
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 09:15
^^ In the joy created by the news I totally forgot to put a link.  Man, how I envy you first world guys and your great concerts. ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 10:08
Yeah, I like ABBA too. There are some Ren songs from that period - esp Bonjour Swansong and also ermm Electric Avenue - which evoke ABBA but not Closer than Yesterday for me. Too pastoral to sound like ABBA. In the whole multi-tracking/Annie over Annie harmonising phase they used to evoke Yes a lot more than they ever did ABBA but I guess Annie's timbre brings Agnetha to mind for some listeners in a loose sense like 'high pitched melodic female singing'.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 10:10
| Re Park West, yeah skip right to the end for Ashes are burning because some of the stuff in between may not be too appetizing. It seems odd that the version is abbreviated because they have always done a full and in fact extended performance of Ashes are burning from the 70s to the present day. More likely it was edited for TV. Shame! |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 10:13
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And this is the New Jersey performance that Ken mentioned. Full performance and maybe a shade better than Chicago but pity about the video quality and the camera focuses on that rotating ball for the 'meat' of the performance though we do get to see Annie as she unleashes that vocalise from hell at just over 18:30 in the vid. |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 10:41
Is that Gavin Harrison on drums?
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 10:48
| It is. |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 10:53
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I knew it. I wasn't paying much attention to the video, but the drums reminded me too much of Porcupine Tree
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 10:56
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Interesting observation there because when I first heard this concert, I was surprised at how flat, how 80s Harrison sounded here. Maybe he just didn't have a choice and/or was too inexperienced. He said he was expected to perform the drum parts of Scheherazade in the audition and he was the only one who had learnt the track in advance which is why he got the job. Camp in his trademark style of gently condescending banter said Harrison was the last guy to audition and it's always the last one who gets the job.
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Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 11:06
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True, the drums sound flat, but the playing style is the same, despite being a kid here
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Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 11:38
| there's actually a few good other performances in there, especially the sole track from Time Line, "Flight", is rather well done, as are some of the instrumental parts of Sheherazade and "Opening Out". |
Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: January 14 2016 at 20:27
I thought so - not a bad concert, I quite like Camp's getup but the keyboards really kill it for me. I can't think of any band with a worse synth pallet than Renaissance in 1981/1983. -------------
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 15 2016 at 00:47
| Yup, if only they had tried similar tones as on Nevada - either the Midwinter cover or Pictures in the fire (track). Still 80s but more 'timeless'. I don't have a problem with the idea of wanting to do something different per se but it just came across as trying too hard to be different and sacrificing all their existing strengths at the altar of hipness. Even a good tune like Remember was ruined by Gosling's synths. Not like KC's Discipline but then not a whole lot of 80s albums by 70s prog rock bands are that good. |
Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: January 15 2016 at 04:00
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Well, I listened to Camel's Nude recently and I thought it was quite good - and I was very skeptical. And... um... I like a lot of the poppy albums from some 70s bands but in terms of 70s prog bands in the 80s making prog albums, it really is pretty dire. Plenty of albums from 80s bands, though. On topic, I need that Nevada record so bad. Probably the last Renaissance thing I really want that I don't have yet. Enchanted Caress by Illusion really disappointed me when I finally got it though. One or two tracks worth it but I'm not surprised it never made it out the door. -------------
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 15 2016 at 04:03
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I omitted to mention Nude. Another 80s album that was pretty good. I quite like 90125 though I know it is not an universal favourite to say the least. Not 80s Genesis, notwithstanding their success, and certainly not 80s Renaissance. Never heard Enchanted Caress. I guess Nevada is or was available on amazon. You can listen to Pictures in the Fire here:
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 15 2016 at 04:29
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A little tidbit here. I have found the Stephanie Adlington version of Loves Lies Love Dies from The Other Woman. Love Lies Love Dies was originally Dreammaker with lyrics by Jon Camp (unless I am mistaken). Love Lies has lyrics by Thatcher. It was also used by Annie Haslam for her solo album Blessing in Disguise. This video has a verse and chorus each from each version. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 15 2016 at 04:33
| Stephanie Adlington is a pretty good jazz singer. It was quite brave of her to attempt the folk-classical repertoire of Annie Haslam, given she was bound to only land brickbats for the most part. |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: January 15 2016 at 12:14
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Annie Haslam showing up on the most recent Yes tribute album performing Wondrous Stories (I believe) with Steve Howe. On second thought, it was Turn of the Century. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 15 2016 at 22:30
I have heard that version of "Turn of the Century", and it is very beautiful indeed. The main problem I find with it is that the keyboards are so much weaker, but Annie's singing was really wonderful... it would have been nice to hear her do more Yes songs. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 15 2016 at 22:42
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It's a nice one though Annie's age kind of shows. Jon Anderson was still singing that song better in live shows at around the same time as she recorded her version. She should have attempted a few of those in the 70s maybe, when her voice was brighter and stronger in the fourth/fifth octaves. Now, it's darker and stronger in the lower keys but Anderson sings in a female singer's range so that is useless. Reaching Out, which she recorded in 77 for the short lived Intergalactic Touring Band, is a dead ringer for Jon Anderson - at least the verse. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 16 2016 at 10:36
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pfff.. amateurs.. a Renaissance appreciation thread... 3 pages now.. and not ONE picture of Annies feet. For shame.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 16 2016 at 21:05
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haha we have to be careful about your over zealous genuflection Micky Re Camel, I think Stationary Traveller is a great example of a prog group embracing the 80s while still being prog. Brooding, morose and melodic, with plenty of great Latimer solos and good performances from members of Alan Parsons Project Re Renaissance, I love the Adlington version of "Love Lies". It's just a great song. There are quite a few I like on that album, with "Somewhere west of here" being the one that sounds most like Renaissance, and is great. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 17 2016 at 08:05
| Based on that 2 minute excerpt, I liked the arrangements while the singing was meh. Kinda typical pop music type of singing. It seems Stephanie didn't know the album was about the woman who stole away Betty Thatcher's lover. Might have helped at least on this song because the pain didn't come through which Annie nailed on the Blessing in Disguise version. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 17 2016 at 08:06
You are talking to a bunch of people (like Ken or Meltdowner) who have seen her in person and hence don't need photographs.
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Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: January 17 2016 at 08:32
^ Well, I didn't see her feet  |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 17 2016 at 09:03
Awww. Too bad, here you go then!  |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 17 2016 at 09:33
ahhhh..  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 17 2016 at 09:34
pfff.. I'm not a name dropper but we've met twice. She knows how I feel about her feet. Trust me ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 17 2016 at 23:07
| next time I see her I will have to muster the courage to try to meet her |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 24 2016 at 06:42
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Amazing that Renaissance put together their best music video after all their years, with limited resources compared to the days when they were on Warner Bros rolls. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 24 2016 at 21:11
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^very nice of course their heyday pre dated the video era, but I wonder if they did any videos for Camera Camera or Timeline?
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 26 2016 at 21:30
| I was just listening to Ashes are Burning today (Carnegie Hall version), along a few other Renaissance songs and... well, I was wondering what you people think about the studio and the live versions of this song, given the long jamming segments on the live versions, and the absence of the guitar solo at the end... replaced by Annies vocalizations, etc. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 26 2016 at 23:39
| Mixed views. On the one hand, Annie vocalising in place of the guitar solo works beautifully (less so in Carnegie Hall than say Ashbury Park, NJ 1979). On the other hand, turning one of their most soulful compositions into a showboat fest with extended keyboard and bass solos wasn't such a great idea. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 27 2016 at 00:09
| the studio version doesn't hold a candle to the live versions, especially the searing guitar part, just not a fit with the Renaissance sound. Even on ASFAS the electric guitar parts were more "symphonic". I love the extended keyboard parts, and did love the bass parts in their day. That's not something that has worn well with time, but there are some really great parts in it where you could almost imagine the same riff on banjo working quite well |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 27 2016 at 01:37
| Oh, if we are talking in general then yes a vast majority of their tracks sound better live than in the studio. Notably the Albert Hall performances of Novella tracks. Then on YT there's a Capitol theatre performance of Things I don't understand. Last year in Israel Annie sang Ocean Gypsy better than ever. Carpet of the sun is way better live etc etc. |
Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: January 27 2016 at 20:53
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Man, I have The Winter Tree playing now and I forgot how much I loved this song. Should have charted better. I mean, it's just a folk pop song but the bass is so good and the chorus is inescapable really. As much as I love the output from 72-79, I feel like had they tried a more commercial approach earlier in the decade they might have made it big. By 1979 though an album like Azure d'Or appealed to very few listeners. -------------
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 27 2016 at 21:08
| Winter Tree could have still charted had they filled out the sound. Like when Annie sings "I'll go back there" and sustains the last word it kind of sounds flat. Backing vocals and/or more accompaniment would have helped. Even Warner Bros didn't help their production, seemingly. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 27 2016 at 22:29
I think with the exception of "Jeckyll and Hyde", "Golden Key" and "Kalynda" the whole album sounds flat. Heck even those songs are only saved by Annie. I could never get into Winter Tree at all
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Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: January 28 2016 at 10:12
------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: February 04 2016 at 00:05
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here is a band I love called Corde Oblique that features a number of excellent female singers. This track, while not quite sounding like Renaissance, might appeal to fans of that band, plus I wanted to give this thread a bump |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: February 04 2016 at 10:05
| Nice music! As for the vocals, she/they sound accomplished alright but I am personally not fond of the operatic 'ouiiii' syllable. It always surprised me that in spite of learning singing from an opera instructor, Annie emphasised more of an 'aaaa' syllable which agrees more to my Hindustani moorings, I guess. A good example is when she sings "Emotion smoulders, starts to burn in hAAArmony" in Touching Once; would have expected a classically trained singer to inflect that ouiii sound there. I am (still) looping Bent Knee's Shiny Eyed Babies which is as different as it gets from Renaissance. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: February 04 2016 at 14:19
hmm that track certainly sounds operatic to me which I usually don't like, but I can't quite get the "aa" vs "ouiiii". That track is also not very typical for Corde Oblique. I will see if I think of another that is more typical and post it. How about posting "Bent Knee" here
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: February 04 2016 at 18:26
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There is a way in which operatic sopranos modify the vowel sounds to produce a more open tone. This sound is the same that you hear on the last sustained ScheherazAAAde. But Annie uses that sound very sparingly. Here's a link to the Bent Knee thread: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=105631" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=105631
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Posted By: esa
Date Posted: February 09 2016 at 08:25
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Live at the Union Chapel DVD and digital live album are out: http://renaissancetouring.com/2016/02/renaissance-live-at-the-union-chapel-dvd/" rel="nofollow - http://renaissancetouring.com/2016/02/renaissance-live-at-the-union-chapel-dvd/ Stereo soundtrack is LPCM, and also includes the band's first-ever Dolby Digital 5.1 track. Lossless digital audio download (FLAC, ALAC) available from band's website. In my biased opinion, the video quality, lighting, and editing are a big step up from the 2011 DVD. Rave Tesar's audio mix is is superb, as always.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: February 10 2016 at 10:07
| Oh man, that's a tempting review. But with the greenback appreciating so much, it's going to cost a bomb what with overseas shipping charges. :( Let's see, parking this for the time being, maybe couple of months down the line I will bite the bullet. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: February 10 2016 at 13:07
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I'm supposed to get it in the mail automatically but I was a late addition to the crowdfunding campaign, so I hope there are no glitches. Sorry rogerthat, but I think the US$ will see leaner times ahead. It has had a few years in the sun and should now wither a little |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: February 16 2016 at 10:27
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Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: February 16 2016 at 11:25
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Mein gott! What a voice! ------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 04:53
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To my great good luck, my aunt who lives in IL is here in India to attend a family function. And since she kept asking me what I'd like for a gift, no prizes for guessing what I asked! Whatever I have watched/heard so far, it's definitely better produced than the Cards/Scheherazade DVD of 2011. Incredibly, Annie seems to be singing Ocean Gypsy even better on this concert! Even more delicate phrasing, brava!
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 06:45
| Holy sh*t, I just tried the surround sound setting and it got even better! In this setting, Annie's voice is so close to what it was like in the 70s recordings. Well, would that there had been surround sound in the 70s! I have to commend the band on spending the money they collected from fans through the fundraiser well. I was initially a little skeptical about the need for another DVD other than that it was a Europe tour after so long but they have delivered something 'extra' with this DVD that makes it worth. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: February 26 2016 at 14:55
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now I'm really looking for ward to hearing it when I return home from an extended absence. The band is now at sea I think, on the Moody Blues cruise, or maybe it's the Yes cruise, I can't keep track!
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 19 2016 at 23:04
| *bump* Did anyone get a chance to listen to the DVD? Tom Brislin goes on a tear on Ashes Are Burning, evoking (for me) Chick Correa and going well beyond where the reticent Tout stopped. Believe he was only on the latest instalment of Cruise to the Edge. Very interesting chords played by Tesar on the Ashes..improvs too. Instrument wise one of the best live versions of Ashes Are Burning. |
Posted By: esa
Date Posted: March 21 2016 at 13:01
| The DVD can now be purchased from the band's http://store.renaissancetouring.com/merch/live-at-the-union-chapel-dvd" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp store as well, with digital live album download included |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 07 2016 at 05:21
| They did a show at Glasgow last week with Curved Air. Anybody from PA attended and how was it? |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 08 2016 at 01:22
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...meanwhile found this on youtube: |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 08 2016 at 10:33
what a woman... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: May 17 2016 at 15:12
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pretty pretty pretty pretty....pretty But why oh why couldn't we get a live video version of ASFAS??? The performance I saw in MA in October was wonderful. I do love the DVD as did the friend I watched it with. We had to make an evening out of it. I also lapped up all the interviews and extras. ps I will have to try the surround sound!
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 17 2016 at 19:16
Yeah, plus I am sure they would have played SFAS in this concert because it's now in the setlist ever since they reintroduced it what last November. Yes, do try the surround sound, it beefs up the audio like anything.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 04 2016 at 09:03
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Good news for the band's IL fans, they are coming to Chicago. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=107106&PID=5344631�" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=107106&PID=5344631�
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 04 2016 at 10:01
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Haven't read this thread and never been a huge fan - I do like all their 70's albums quite a bit though. But clicking those two live clips on this page made me want to see them live. Annie's impressive voice is still there! (btw: stay away from whomever calls themselves Pentangle these days. Jacqui McShee has totally lost it. Same can be said about Sonja Kristina, but she never had a fantastic voice and the concert was kind of fun anyway) ------------- 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 04 2016 at 10:04
Sorry to hear that, she was a great singer and Annie definitely used to evoke McShee esp early on before she expanded her repertoire. Yes, her (Annie's) longevity is just amazing, isn't it? I commented on it elsewhere, that she's winning over people just by still being there and being able to still perform at a high level on stage.
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Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: July 04 2016 at 18:20
| they are also playing in Bethlehem, PA Nov 9! Since I have a friend there whom I often visit, I will probably go. It's about 5 hours from Boston |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 15 2016 at 10:06
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Not Renaissance but Ren fans might enjoy...Annie Haslam singing for Caravan. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 16 2016 at 04:30
Had the chance today to listen to some live clips from recent years of both Pentangle and Steeleye Span and both McShee and Maddy Prior barely reach for the high notes (and these aren't really high notes like the ones Annie hits, just high w.r.t the particular song). What's amazing is Annie pushed her voice to the limit in the 70s - unlike them - and still has it intact after all these years.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: September 03 2016 at 05:57
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Great news for Renee songs fans. Repertoire Records is going to release the Sight & Sound concert of 1977 in DVD plus ACD as well as two other live concerts that were broadcast on BBC radio in 75 and 76 and three songs they ostensibly performed live-in-the-studio in 78. http://www.repertoirerecords.com/artists/renaissance/renaissance-live-at-the-bbc-the-sight-sound-in-concert-series/" rel="nofollow - http://www.repertoirerecords.com/artists/renaissance/renaissance-live-at-the-bbc-the-sight-sound-in-concert-series/ While I do not see the Sight & Sound video as the holy grail of Ren fans that it is made out to be, I certainly wouldn't mind having it in my collection now that I have an official way of owning it. It's a great package, hope the price is great too.
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